Balancing the metaWe have come far in this game and arrived in a place where a select few characters combine multiple roles in a team overwhelmingly well so that only extreme synergy like resistance or jedi can hope to defeat them. I am of course talking about Chaze, GK, R2, Thrawn and DN. The one thing they all have in common is that they perform outstanding supporting abilities while also filling other roles.Chaze: I do not know what the developer were thinking when they put together their kit other than to create a powerful pay-to-win tool but this game does not need that to make money. Chaze combines everything and is great at it: dps, taunt, heal, anti-crit, dispel, cleanse, ten up and therefore desperately needs a nerf.GK: He is an outstanding tank with a cleanse and a mass call to assist, which are support abilities.R2: R2 seems to be the most balanced out of this list as he strictly sticks to his role as a support. Only in a Jedi lineup does his dps seem considerable.Thrawn: Other than R2, Thrawn has a very high dps for a strict support character.DN:Here is the guy that makes attackers and dps in this game basically obsolete and is therefore the greatest threat. In addition to a mass cooldown increase, which is unaffected by ten up and a dispel on his basic, he gets basically unlimited damage every 4 turns. He is important to keep those barriss time-out-teams in check though.I don't want CG to release the "same" character over and over again in terms of filling multiple roles better than other toons fill their single role. I am not generally against a character combining more than one role but he/she should be worse at those than others who are more specialized. I would therefore nerf the before listed character in the following way.The NerfsChaze: I would like to see a complete rework here so they have a more specialized synergy with "rogue one" characters but if i wanted to make it simple then I would remove Baze's "Unload" ability and Chirrut's "As the Force Wills" to narrow down their roles in a team composition. They have 5(!) abilities. For two minor characters from a minor Star Wars movie this is ridiculous. Compare that to Vader. GK: As he has adopted two powerful support abilities he should sacrifice some of his viability as a pure tank. Therefore I would decrease his health/protection by about 15%. Why would you ever prefer another tank otherwise?R2: Does not need a nerf. He is just a very good support that doesn't harm the game.Thrawn: As previously mentioned he needs a nerf to his dps. Considering his powerful abilities and speed his damage should be almost non-existant.DN: Now here comes the tricky one. We do not want to nerf him into the ground because he has to counter time-out teams so i would either change "Annihilate" to killing the opponent with the least amount of health (this would have synergy with Sith Assassin and Trooper as they attack health directly) or increase the cooldown to 14 so DN can only use it every 5-6 turns, which should give enemy dps toons enough time to break through before he gets too crazy.In the end it is about diversity in arena and not about cramming the 5 most op toons available with little to no synergy in a team and win lol.P.S.: Attackers are dearly missed in arena.

Chaze - is NOT p2w, and as of April/May is an easy to beat combo.GK - can be unlocked only through HAAT, so him being powerful is justified.R2 - he is as bad as the previous 2, you decide whether this is a bad or a good thing.Thrawn - His dmg is semi-decent, compared to actual attackers he is nothing.DN - the true most OP, unbalanced toon. He is in every single team, no matter what you run. The current meta teams consisting of Empire toons mostly, also use him. So if you just read my comment you should notice a similar pattern between my reply and your post. The pattern is that I absolutely skipped on talking about Chaze, I just mentioned them, so people would see that they are in the "most op" list, and I threw all my hate on DN. If you look closely at your post, you will notice that you did the same but in reverse.So you see OP my point is you obviously cry that you cannot beat Chaze and you just mention a few other op characters in there, thinking that something will happen. How do I know that? Simply. I did the same.I cried about DN(which is the actual toon that you can find in every single team and is the actual toon that needs a re-work)and just mentioned the other heroes so I don't have people coming and telling me "ugh why didn't you include this toon and that toon, they are OP too).

"Crazylazyguy;c-1196894" wrote:Chaze - is NOT p2w, and as of April/May is an easy to beat combo.GK - can be unlocked only through HAAT, so him being powerful is justified.R2 - he is as bad as the previous 2, you decide whether this is a bad or a good thing.Thrawn - His dmg is semi-decent, compared to actual attackers he is nothing.DN - the true most OP, unbalanced toon. He is in every single team, no matter what you run. The current meta teams consisting of Empire toons mostly, also use him. So if you just read my comment you should notice a similar pattern between my reply and your post. The pattern is that I absolutely skipped on talking about Chaze, I just mentioned them, so people would see that they are in the "most op" list, and I threw all my hate on DN. If you look closely at your post, you will notice that you did the same but in reverse.So you see OP my point is you obviously cry that you cannot beat Chaze and you just mention a few other op characters in there, thinking that something will happen. How do I know that? Simply. I did the same.I cried about DN(which is the actual toon that you can find in every single team and is the actual toon that needs a re-work)and just mentioned the other heroes so I don't have people coming and telling me "ugh why didn't you include this toon and that toon, they are OP too).I have no problems beating chaze or getting to top 3 everyday. I wouldn't claim I knew what to do if i didn't. This is not about nerfing what i cannot beat. This is about nerfing toons that are universally too good and u can therefore just cram them all in a team and have one of the best teams available although they have practically no synergy. chaze is definitely p2w for new players and I was referring to when they were released.Whether they will nerf somebody or not won't influence my arena performance i can guarantee you that mate.

So what about rex? He's more common in the top10 than chaze and r2 (according to the swgoh.gg meta report). I don't want any of those nerfs, but i find it odd that you left rex out.

They are fine, though having some penalty for stuffing LS and DS on the same squad should apply, which would possibly see less squads being stuffed w R2 GK Nih Thrawn on the same squad

"leef;c-1196903" wrote:So what about rex? He's more common in the top10 than chaze and r2 (according to the swgoh.gg meta report). I don't want any of those nerfs, but i find it odd that you left rex out. Rex is a pure support character and all about tm gain and ten up. his health and dps are on the lower end of the spectrum so perfectly balanced. He has one job and is good at it.

Balancing the meta | EA Forums

crazyhynter
New Spectator
8 years ago
Chaze - is NOT p2w, and as of April/May is an easy to beat combo.
GK - can be unlocked only through HAAT, so him being powerful is justified.
R2 - he is as bad as the previous 2, you decide whether this is a bad or a good thing.
Thrawn - His dmg is semi-decent, compared to actual attackers he is nothing.
DN - the true most OP, unbalanced toon. He is in every single team, no matter what you run. The current meta teams consisting of Empire toons mostly, also use him.

So if you just read my comment you should notice a similar pattern between my reply and your post. The pattern is that I absolutely skipped on talking about Chaze, I just mentioned them, so people would see that they are in the "most op" list, and I threw all my hate on DN. If you look closely at your post, you will notice that you did the same but in reverse.

So you see OP my point is you obviously cry that you cannot beat Chaze and you just mention a few other op characters in there, thinking that something will happen. How do I know that? Simply. I did the same.
I cried about DN(which is the actual toon that you can find in every single team and is the actual toon that needs a re-work)and just mentioned the other heroes so I don't have people coming and telling me "ugh why didn't you include this toon and that toon, they are OP too).
hbk146
8 years ago
"Crazylazyguy;c-1196894" wrote:
Chaze - is NOT p2w, and as of April/May is an easy to beat combo.
GK - can be unlocked only through HAAT, so him being powerful is justified.
R2 - he is as bad as the previous 2, you decide whether this is a bad or a good thing.
Thrawn - His dmg is semi-decent, compared to actual attackers he is nothing.
DN - the true most OP, unbalanced toon. He is in every single team, no matter what you run. The current meta teams consisting of Empire toons mostly, also use him.

So if you just read my comment you should notice a similar pattern between my reply and your post. The pattern is that I absolutely skipped on talking about Chaze, I just mentioned them, so people would see that they are in the "most op" list, and I threw all my hate on DN. If you look closely at your post, you will notice that you did the same but in reverse.

So you see OP my point is you obviously cry that you cannot beat Chaze and you just mention a few other op characters in there, thinking that something will happen. How do I know that? Simply. I did the same.
I cried about DN(which is the actual toon that you can find in every single team and is the actual toon that needs a re-work)and just mentioned the other heroes so I don't have people coming and telling me "ugh why didn't you include this toon and that toon, they are OP too).

I have no problems beating chaze or getting to top 3 everyday. I wouldn't claim I knew what to do if i didn't. This is not about nerfing what i cannot beat. This is about nerfing toons that are universally too good and u can therefore just cram them all in a team and have one of the best teams available although they have practically no synergy. chaze is definitely p2w for new players and I was referring to when they were released.
Whether they will nerf somebody or not won't influence my arena performance i can guarantee you that mate.
emvedebe
8 years ago
So what about rex? He's more common in the top10 than chaze and r2 (according to the swgoh.gg meta report).
I don't want any of those nerfs, but i find it odd that you left rex out.
DonSKSin
8 years ago
They are fine, though having some penalty for stuffing LS and DS on the same squad should apply, which would possibly see less squads being stuffed w R2 GK Nih Thrawn on the same squad
hbk146
8 years ago
"leef;c-1196903" wrote:
So what about rex? He's more common in the top10 than chaze and r2 (according to the swgoh.gg meta report).
I don't want any of those nerfs, but i find it odd that you left rex out.

Rex is a pure support character and all about tm gain and ten up. his health and dps are on the lower end of the spectrum so perfectly balanced. He has one job and is good at it.
hbk146
8 years ago
"Bt_7274;c-1196915" wrote:
Boo -1,no toon needs a nerf,all of those are balanced and none need a nerf,
Chaze:they are countered by daze,fracture,and high damage attacks(wiggs for example),after you kill baze(very easy) chirrut literally has no health

Gk:hes the hardest toon to get ,and hes perferctly balanced,looking at his base speed,and the fact that hes a tank,makes him not get more than 1 turn,also he has alot of counters,and the most simple one is buff immunity

Thrawn:seriously? Nerf his damage output?you sound like someone who is losing to these toons and want a nerf instead of changing your strategy,special damage heavy toons always do good damage ,thats their thing(ep,tarkin for example),so he is also balanced,also you say he has high speend,do you even know what fracture is?it lowers his speed by 50% so even when he has 270 speed if there are fractured enemies,his speed is 135,oh and he also removes tm from himself so he barely takes 3-4 turns,again,he is countered by daze ,and high damage attacks,oh also his damage is nothing compared to actual attackers like wedge or tfp

Dn:dn is a little too powerful but,1)he has a low base speed 2)he isnt immune to ability block/stun unlike the other toon who can one shot almost anyone(fulcrum ahsoka),so he can be controlled,and if anyone deserves to be powerful its him

TL;DR:you need to change your strategy instead of coming here asking for nerfs,oh and if you say "i have no problem with these toons but they are op" its not acceptable because if you dont have problem beating them,how do you saay they are op?

Ok lots of problems with your arguments. Where do i start...

chaze gets countered by daze? except for when chirrut cleanses or has ten up, yeah. chaze has a good anti-crit mechanic so i wouldnt bring up wiggs when wanting to counter them really.
gk- buff immunity: sure, until he cleanses it or chirrut does it for him

thrawn speed is very relevant cause if u have a zetaed dn on your team for example thrawn will do his tm increase/cleanse to rex who will tm increase everyone and depending on the team u are facing this can be devastating.(but i am sure u have no dn zeta or even know what it does). Over 10 k damage on a basic for support with that kind of speed and those abilities is too much dude. get it?

change my strategy? i think it is pretty effective: get the op toons. was pretty effective until now. but shouldnt the strategy be: get the best synergy? nope because it is basically irrelevant(except jedi, resitance, etc), which is the general problem.

Again my argument is that they are too good outside of their synergy peers, which makes their synergy peers irrelevant, which is boring. Not at all saying any team is at all unbeatable.U just have no incentive to go for anybody else than those toons in arena.
STRlKEBOMB
8 years ago
"Bt_7274;c-1196936" wrote:
"hbk1468;c-1196926" wrote:
"Bt_7274;c-1196915" wrote:
Boo -1,no toon needs a nerf,all of those are balanced and none need a nerf,
Chaze:they are countered by daze,fracture,and high damage attacks(wiggs for example),after you kill baze(very easy) chirrut literally has no health

Gk:hes the hardest toon to get ,and hes perferctly balanced,looking at his base speed,and the fact that hes a tank,makes him not get more than 1 turn,also he has alot of counters,and the most simple one is buff immunity

Thrawn:seriously? Nerf his damage output?you sound like someone who is losing to these toons and want a nerf instead of changing your strategy,special damage heavy toons always do good damage ,thats their thing(ep,tarkin for example),so he is also balanced,also you say he has high speend,do you even know what fracture is?it lowers his speed by 50% so even when he has 270 speed if there are fractured enemies,his speed is 135,oh and he also removes tm from himself so he barely takes 3-4 turns,again,he is countered by daze ,and high damage attacks,oh also his damage is nothing compared to actual attackers like wedge or tfp

Dn:dn is a little too powerful but,1)he has a low base speed 2)he isnt immune to ability block/stun unlike the other toon who can one shot almost anyone(fulcrum ahsoka),so he can be controlled,and if anyone deserves to be powerful its him

TL;DR:you need to change your strategy instead of coming here asking for nerfs,oh and if you say "i have no problem with these toons but they are op" its not acceptable because if you dont have problem beating them,how do you saay they are op?

Ok lots of problems with your arguments. Where do i start...

chaze gets countered by daze? except for when chirrut cleanses or has ten up, yeah. chaze has a good anti-crit mechanic so i wouldnt bring up wiggs when wanting to counter them really.
gk- buff immunity: sure, until he cleanses it or chirrut does it for him

thrawn speed is very relevant cause if u have a zetaed dn on your team for example thrawn will do his tm increase/cleanse to rex who will tm increase everyone and depending on the team u are facing this can be devastating.(but i am sure u have no dn zeta or even know what it does). Over 10 k damage on a basic for support with that kind of speed and those abilities is too much dude. get it?

change my strategy? i think it is pretty effective: get the op toons. was pretty effective until now. but shouldnt the strategy be: get the best synergy? nope because it is basically irrelevant(except jedi, resitance, etc), which is the general problem.

Again my argument is that they are too good outside of their synergy peers, which makes their synergy peers irrelevant, which is boring. Not at all saying any team is at all unbeatable.U just have no incentive to go for anybody else than those toons in arena.

and you say chaze cleanses,tell me how can they cleanse when their cooldowns are increased by deathtrooper or are ability blocked/stunned ,also i dont see any anti crit mechanics besides healing,which they cant be healed when they are one shotted

If you are one shotting baze or chirrut there's a problem...
hbk146
8 years ago
"Bt_7274;c-1196936" wrote:
"hbk1468;c-1196926" wrote:
"Bt_7274;c-1196915" wrote:
Boo -1,no toon needs a nerf,all of those are balanced and none need a nerf,
Chaze:they are countered by daze,fracture,and high damage attacks(wiggs for example),after you kill baze(very easy) chirrut literally has no health

Gk:hes the hardest toon to get ,and hes perferctly balanced,looking at his base speed,and the fact that hes a tank,makes him not get more than 1 turn,also he has alot of counters,and the most simple one is buff immunity

Thrawn:seriously? Nerf his damage output?you sound like someone who is losing to these toons and want a nerf instead of changing your strategy,special damage heavy toons always do good damage ,thats their thing(ep,tarkin for example),so he is also balanced,also you say he has high speend,do you even know what fracture is?it lowers his speed by 50% so even when he has 270 speed if there are fractured enemies,his speed is 135,oh and he also removes tm from himself so he barely takes 3-4 turns,again,he is countered by daze ,and high damage attacks,oh also his damage is nothing compared to actual attackers like wedge or tfp

Dn:dn is a little too powerful but,1)he has a low base speed 2)he isnt immune to ability block/stun unlike the other toon who can one shot almost anyone(fulcrum ahsoka),so he can be controlled,and if anyone deserves to be powerful its him

TL;DR:you need to change your strategy instead of coming here asking for nerfs,oh and if you say "i have no problem with these toons but they are op" its not acceptable because if you dont have problem beating them,how do you saay they are op?

Ok lots of problems with your arguments. Where do i start...

chaze gets countered by daze? except for when chirrut cleanses or has ten up, yeah. chaze has a good anti-crit mechanic so i wouldnt bring up wiggs when wanting to counter them really.
gk- buff immunity: sure, until he cleanses it or chirrut does it for him

thrawn speed is very relevant cause if u have a zetaed dn on your team for example thrawn will do his tm increase/cleanse to rex who will tm increase everyone and depending on the team u are facing this can be devastating.(but i am sure u have no dn zeta or even know what it does).Over 10 k damage on a basic for support with that kind of speed and those abilities is too much dude. get it?

change my strategy? i think it is pretty effective: get the op toons. was pretty effective until now. but shouldnt the strategy be: get the best synergy? nope because it is basically irrelevant(except jedi, resitance, etc), which is the general problem.

Again my argument is that they are too good outside of their synergy peers, which makes their synergy peers irrelevant, which is boring. Not at all saying any team is at all unbeatable.U just have no incentive to go for anybody else than those toons in arena.

dude,youre pretty ignorant,you say i havent faced dn zeta and dont know what it is?are you on my jan 2016 shard?if not how do you know?and you say chaze cleanses,tell me how can they cleanse when their cooldowns are increased by deathtrooper or are ability blocked/stunned ,also i dont see any anti crit mechanics besides healing,which they cant be healed when they are one shotted
Gk:he cant cleanse if he is stunned
Thrawn:have you ever faced yoda?he is also a support toon,oh and biggs,he is also a support,also cassian,he hits pretty hard on special and basic,oh i also forgot aayla secura ,who can also stun on counters while doing 14 k on basics.qui gon jinn also hits hard on his basic,so here you go 5 supports and all do more than 10 k on basics

Also,you say the best strategy is to farm "op" toons,which is not,its not like you need those mentioned toons to get number 1 ,see jedi,resistance for example,oh or empire,and you say they operate better when they are not with their faction,which is not true examples:
Chaze with rebels=enemies not dying because they heal alot

Gk with jedi:a tank that cant be hit because it always has foresight,pretty cool huh?

Thrawn with empire:this isnt even worth arguing we all know how thrawn made empire extremely viable

Dn with sith:im pretty sure iprefer my dn to go faster than all my enemies(zaul lead) or heal to the point that dn anihilates more than 3 people(his own leader ship)

dude u set the tone for this conversation so dont come back crying ok?

lol any toon is useless if it is stunned or ability blocked except maybe fulcrum and barriss. how is that an argument?
thrawn: i repeat myself: Over 10 k damage on a basic for support with THAT KIND OF SPEED and THOSE ABILITES is too much. yoda has mostly bad abilities, biggs is effectively an attacker, just mislabeled(has no supporting abilities whatsoever), aayla IS an attacker, not sure why u came up with her. same goes for qgj.

U r right there are lots of teams that can work. The game is currently far from being in the worst spot. Yet the combos of rex, chaze, dn, gk and rex, gk, dn, r2, thrawn reign supreme in arena. I would just like to see more teams with at least 4 of the same faction and maybe one additional odd synergy member because synergy is what should make or break a team and not the individual class of some legendary toons.
emvedebe
8 years ago
"hbk1468;c-1196914" wrote:
"leef;c-1196903" wrote:
So what about rex? He's more common in the top10 than chaze and r2 (according to the swgoh.gg meta report).
I don't want any of those nerfs, but i find it odd that you left rex out.

Rex is a pure support character and all about tm gain and ten up. his health and dps are on the lower end of the spectrum so perfectly balanced. He has one job and is good at it.

well...

"hbk1468;d-123853" wrote:
Balancing the meta

.....
In the end it is about diversity in arena and not about cramming the 5 most op toons available with little to no synergy in a team and win lol.
.....

Don't get me wrong, i love rex and i certainly don't want him nerfed, but he's in the top3(!) most used characters in arena.
hbk146
8 years ago
"leef;c-1196956" wrote:
"hbk1468;c-1196914" wrote:
"leef;c-1196903" wrote:
So what about rex? He's more common in the top10 than chaze and r2 (according to the swgoh.gg meta report).
I don't want any of those nerfs, but i find it odd that you left rex out.

Rex is a pure support character and all about tm gain and ten up. his health and dps are on the lower end of the spectrum so perfectly balanced. He has one job and is good at it.

well...

"hbk1468;d-123853" wrote:
Balancing the meta

.....
In the end it is about diversity in arena and not about cramming the 5 most op toons available with little to no synergy in a team and win lol.
.....

Don't get me wrong, i love rex and i certainly don't want him nerfed, but he's in the top3(!) most used characters in arena.

yes he has a good lead ability that includes everybody. if faction synergy overall was stronger he would soon not be used anymore. he is just the leader for all those strong toons that dont have any synergy otherwise.