DEVS Please Fix GAC
First off, let me be clear: If you are a whale If you're in Aurorium or higher If you have more than 6 GL This ISN'T for you, and please keep your opinions to yourself. Capital Games develop...
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I’m not suggesting GP matchmaking. GP matchmaking is a problem because it incentivizes players to not grow as you pointed out.
So, what is your suggestion? I'm generally interested as you're clearly intelligent, have a very good grasp on GAC and are playing in Carbonite.
Honestly I think what you suggested seems like a solid feasible solution. In Carbonite, if higher GP players are grouped together in a division it helps newer or f2p players to have actual competitive matchups.
The issue with this is, you and a few others have pointed out that there's such a diversity of rosters in Carbonite, what is significantly more than the average? The other point is, what match ups in Carbonite do you have that aren't competitive?
I don't think F2P or not, has much influence. If you're P2W you either climb or are no better than the rosters in Carbonite already.
I think the way to account for the diversity of rosters is to simply make a cut-off. Like accounts over 4m GP are in the “higher” bracket while accounts below are in the “lower” bracket for example.
Hmmm, OK, I'm not anti that idea per se. I also have to concede that being a Kyber player, how much empathy and understanding can I have for the current Carbonite situation. However, if this condition was made for Carbonite, is there an intrinsic difference to Bronzium conditions? Wouldn't a player that moves up with lower GP in Carbonite, then want the same rules for Bronzium and so on?
help prevent newer players from having to pray that their opponents don’t play.
I think this has to be a new league, that is lower than Carbonite. This league would be sacred. You can't demote into it. It really needs to be seen as a training ground, where tadpoles can be tadpoles before they're swallowed up by full size cane toads. In that way, when a player does join Carbonite, they've at least had some positive experience and some experience on how to play GAC.
You don’t even need to implement this in the higher tiers of GAC, as the problem is not prevalent there. Really just Bronzium and Carbonite because after that the differences in rosters become more and more negligibe
I think this is a new player outlook on things. "The issue is with the very low leagues, they're OK up there". I'm in Kyber 2 below 12 million and I really feel it, vs bigger rosters. There are rosters that can flaunt their muscle, just like in the lower leagues. However, I'll let you know a secret now. If I ever get paired with a roster significantly lower in GP than me.....it terrifies me. They're obviously there for a reason. I reckon some of your opponents feel the same about you.
You also have to take to account, how much of a GP advantage is an advantage in Carbonite. With the size of a GAC in Carbonite, there's very little GP a high GP account can actually use. So, it comes down to efficiency. If you have the tools to take out what they have on defence, then they're in big trouble. And as we're seeing, when big accounts in Carbonite are in trouble, they reach for that white flag pretty quickly.
I’m sorry this is the one part of your proposal I disagree with.
Sorry isn't necessary. We both have an opinion. I feel you have more of a grasp on what is 'actually' happening in Carbonite. Where, I feel, I have a better grasp on the big picture and what we had before vs now. Either way, your opinion is valid and apologies aren't necessary.
Shouldn’t we be incentivizing players to be good at the game? To make good strategic decisions and know what they’re doing? In other games that’s exactly how it works, the person who is the best at the game is usually the winner,
The situation is, you find your optimum placement. You win (or lose) until you find your optimum placement, then you roughly go 50/50 until something significantly happens to your roster. You are incentive is that you are rewarded in where you are. Going 50/50 in Kyber gives you far better rewards than going 50/50 in Carbonite. So, the incentive is to get as high as possible, find your balance and then hold position until you makes a noticeable difference to your roster. The incentive is to climb, not to win unconditionally. If for example, I go 30/70 in a season in Kyber, I'm still doing far better than a player going 70/30 in Carbonite.
The issue for you is, why aren't you climbing more quickly than you are. You have quickly found a position where you are balanced, which is lower than what I would have expected. Is this down to how many larger rosters are competing in Carbonite, or how much GP small rosters are now. When Grand Arena (GAC) actually started 3 million GP was the cut off for the very biggest accounts. Even Ahnaldt101 wasn't a 3 million account. Now, we're seeing accounts starting their GAC journey at this size. Is this affecting division placement?
not the whale who opens their wallet.
Again, you mention 'whales' or 'p2w'. This isn't the issue. Either, their spending is effective and they disappear upwards quickly or it isn't and are on par with their current league. There are f2p accounts doing well in K1 at 13/14 million. Spending money isn't a factor (other than the top half of K1), especially in lower leagues.
How is it unfair that the person who understands the game and takes the time to do so is rewarded by winning fair matches? Isn’t that the point of a “skill” based system?
You're rewarded by your league/division position. The better you are, the higher your league and division. The higher the position the better your rewards. Fundamentally, we're all winning roughly the same amount of games. Well I doubt there are many that think "skill' is the basis of the system. You can have all the skill in the world and you wouldn't beat a chimpanzee playing a large K1 account. It's more a muscle, knowledge, effort and homework system. There's plenty there that you can influence if you have the desire and put in the time.
I only win by brining my good stuff on offense, and crossing my fingers and hoping that my opponent doesn’t put their best GL’s on defense. Not particularly engaging strategic decision-making if you ask me.
Hmmm, I think you should be getting the match ups you're getting. Just that, why aren't you facing 8 million GP rosters in Chromium rather than Carbonite? The rewards you're getting don't match the feats/wins you're achieving. That's an issue that I have no idea how to fix. For you, eventually it will sort itself out. The more muscle you put on your roster, the less these larger rosters can do to combat you. I think it's fine as long as you competitive games (which you do most of the time), even if you have to think outside the box a bit. Where it is a problem is when a large account puts 2 GLs on defence in Carbonite and small rosters can't do anything. That really shouldn't be the Carbonite experience.
I’m confused about why you think it’d be unfair for players who are good to win as opposed to players who voluntarily drop to bully smaller rosters.
Winning unconditionally isn't the goal with the current GAC system. It's to reach the highest League/Division possible. If we look at football/soccer. Is there an incentive for Manchester City to drop to League 2 so that they can win every game? No, there isn't. GAC should be a struggle to promote, but with each promotion comes better rewards.
As for players dropping to voluntarily bully smaller rosters, is that an actual thing? Yes, there are players who dislike the current system and try to destabilise it, but in the long run they disappear. Yes, there are players that lack the back bone to compete and only play when they think they can win. Yes, there are all a few silly billys that think they can demote without playing and then promote and can go even on rewards (btw they can't reliably). However, players demoting deliberately to bully smaller accounts, what's the incentive in that when rewards are better the higher you are? Again, if a percentage of players are doing this, they don't have the brain to cause you issues in the long run.
I agree that the problem is definitely temporary. That the more someone builds their roster, the more it’s easier for them to climb and for those larger accounts for them not to affect them. I mean I see it now as my GAC opponents this week have so far been a 9m with 5 GL’s and a 10m with 5 GL’s and Executor. However, I full cleared them both thanks to the fact that I just got Leia and I’m sure when I get Executor next, this problem will be even more minimal.
The issue that takes a looooooooong time to happen, especially if you don’t spend any money on the game. From a new player perspective, if I were to come into the game for the first time, get all the way to level 85 and then the first thing I face once I arrive at the competitive mode is a roster I have no chance against. Essentially the way I see it, the new player has three choices, keep f2p farming and deal with losses for a long while, buy some light speed bundles to try and mitigate the problem immediately or just leave. As the problem persists and new players have no idea what to do would, I think they would probably just drop the game out of frustration. I understand now that I face these crazy rosters for a reason, because I can actually beat them. It may be slightly unfair, but as you essentially said the price of winning is facing tougher opponents. I care enough about the game to try to keep climbing even when I’m disadvantaged. From a new player perspective though, why would they care? If they have minimal investment in the game, I think they’re more likely to drop it which is sad because I think this game has lot to offer. I don’t think I should be unconditionally winning as put it, but I do think that lower level players should not be unconditionally losing because of this problem. Before you ask for evidence of this, I’m gonna provide some below:
What inspired me to write my initial post was a video I saw from Nooch2Gud where he’s made a new f2p account but despite being in Carbonite 5 is facing rosters that he has no chance against as a 500k account. And Nooch is a very experienced player so I don’t think that had anything to do with it. I’m gonna send a link for the video below and I’m curious what you think about it, if the new player experience is being short-changed or if there is something we should be doing. Fair warning the video is more of a rant than anything but he shows the problem he’s facing in the video:
https://youtu.be/ojvTdSjDsds?si=FniaUFkMjozgIAJJ
And if you want to see him dealing with it from more of a gameplay perspective, here’s this video the GAC originates from, just skip to 17:00 to see him start playing GAC:
https://youtu.be/zvYPgH4iD-4?si=aWPdzCsQOK-6N03Y
I just got Leia and I’m sure when I get Executor next, this problem will be even more minimal.
I don't know. I think the boat you're in is your boat. The more things you get, the more you'll climb and the harder rosters you'll face. The further you climb, the more these players will care and know more how to use their rosters.
I think you'll forever? maybe for a very long time be shooting up, being forced to be creative to take out larger foes. By temporary, I meant being where you are. Once you break through, you'll start to climb and that won't stop until you hit mid Kyber at least. I'm fair sure of that. The fact you're taking out bigger, more developed rosters now, means that is likely never going to change.
From a new player perspective, if I were to come into the game for the first time, get all the way to level 85 and then the first thing I face once I arrive at the competitive mode is a roster I have no chance against.
This 100% should not be happening or allowed to happen. It's absolutely crazy that a new player to GAC first experiences are potentially vs a huge roster that never or rarely plays. Even if they win, that's no fun experience. An initial league (too late for Carbonite I think) needs to be something you can't demote into and have a limited time you can compete in it.
It may be slightly unfair, but as you essentially said the price of winning is facing tougher opponents.
Don't forget that there's a reward as well as a price! You're rewarded for climbing too. It's just that the rewards isn't winning every match.
What inspired me to write my initial post was a video I saw from Nooch2Gud
Well as I said, I think new accounts should be protected against this.
However, Nooch is probably the streamer I have the least respect for, he's hardcore bad loser. I know Nooch very well and used to watch a lot of his streaming. He's decries the current system nearly every stream and would find any opportunity to find faults with it.
If Nooch doesn't win, he'll usually bemoan the GP difference being the reason. Yes, a 500k new player should not be playing vs big accounts. However, his opinion is grossly biased.
I'm also unsure of where you believe your stand-point is on this. Are you the new player? Or are you talking about your past experiences and what you went through. You're a success story. You've come through it, and you can show how you can beat these rosters.
I’m curious what you think about it, if the new player experience is being short-changed or if there is something we should be doing. Fair warning the video is more of a rant than anything but he shows the problem he’s facing in the video:
Yeah, I don't need to hear Nooch's high pitched whiny voice, I get it. I'm with you totally. New players are being short changed. We 100% need this beginners league. Maybe 5 divisions, you spend 1 season in each division, before you go to Carbonite. That would make the new player experience so much better. As it is, how many players is GAC losing to the issues you and....yes Nooch point out?
I agree its not fun from a gameplay perspective to just hope the other person doesn't play and I like harvest mouse idea of a rookie league where people could at least get a couple gac under their belt with similar rosters before carbonite. But there also seems to be a lot of entitlement with both new players/low gp accounts on where they "should" be. Theres a lot of people that have been playing for almost a decade. So those lower players really shouldnt be in a higher league. And this is a game where progress is measured in months and years.
Case in point, the nooch videos you linked. I mean really how high should a sub 1 mil gp account with a bunch of g7 crap really be? And if it was a close matchup people would probably complain they have newer different characters or something. Its not perfect but someone will always be mad so why would CG change it? And yeah nooch is a meh player whos not great on any account jn the few vids ive watched. Somehow ahnald was able to take his ftp to kyber 3 in a couple years despite bad matchups and forgetting to play gac a lot.
I am definitely coming at this problem from past experience as my perspective instead of current. But I also agree that new players having an even lower beginners league would go a long way towards helping those players have a more positive GAC experience. I think it would also help buy time for them to build their rosters and maybe a counter or two for the big meta teams.
And yeah I’ll agree that Nooch kinda lacks the patience to dig his heels in and actually figure out how to beat some of these rosters, especially with some of his larger f2p accounts. He’s good at farming, but I think he lacks a bit of gameplay experience. Ahnald definitely understands how to play the game itself far better than most. I mean he helps develop a lot of off-meta counters to meta things so he probably did something similar to get his f2p to climb.
Also I do agree with ATM that sub 1m rosters probably shouldn’t be climbing too much, which is again why I like the idea of a beginners league, because it would help to climb at a reasonable rate against mostly fair opponents while their rosters are still developing. And if people complain about that then that’s on them, because then it could be reasonably determined that the problem is a skill issue instead of inherently flawed matchmaking.
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