Easy counter to phoneix squad
Zaul+DT+ep=dead pheonix
Forum Discussion
";970087" wrote:
"Woodroward;970074" wrote:
Meh. Just wait and see. If you really think the current meta is going to beat out the new characters they are releasing, go right ahead."Ig88isboss;970056" wrote:
"Woodroward;970047" wrote:
"Kyno;969977" wrote:
"Woodroward;969699" wrote:
"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.
The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.
Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.
Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.
No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.
Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.
As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.
Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.
Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.
There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.
I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.
The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.
If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.
Good additions buff immunity.
The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.
Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.
Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.
If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.
You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.
Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.
The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.
AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.
Well who is gonna bother gearing and starring up a team that is a 'close match' with the current meta.. Not many I would assume. Really surprising cg would release a team that can't compete will with the current meta, gonna lose them that precious $$$
It's not a close match for the Phoenix team attacking the Sith (that's easy mode), it's a close match for the Sith attacking the Phoenix team...
Kill order is everything. Defense generally sucks because you don't have it. Offense is effective because you do. Dual taunters removes your biggest offensive power from you.
Yes, lots of people would spend money on that.
I'll be here to laugh in your face when you get proven wrong.
Seriously, I think you need to look at the abilities of the Phoenix squad again. They were 100% built to counter two things: Debuffs and AoE. Why do you think you'll beat them? Debuffs and AoE..."Woodroward;970047" wrote:
"Kyno;969977" wrote:
"Woodroward;969699" wrote:
"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.
The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.
Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.
Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.
No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.
Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.
As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.
Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.
Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.
There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.
I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.
The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.
If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.
Good additions buff immunity.
The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.
Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.
Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.
If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.
You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.
Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.
The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.
AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.
Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed sid. Palp is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making. Ok maybe you can't go first without sa, at least with a toon that matters, but AOEs after that don't really care if someone is taunting.
Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.
Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.
Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.
Edit, thought palp was faster"Kyno;970098" wrote:
"Woodroward;970047" wrote:
"Kyno;969977" wrote:
"Woodroward;969699" wrote:
"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.
The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.
Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.
Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.
No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.
Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.
As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.
Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.
Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.
There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.
I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.
The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.
If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.
Good additions buff immunity.
The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.
Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.
Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.
If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.
You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.
Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.
The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.
AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.
Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed palp. Sid is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making.
Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.
Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.
Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.
Every time a phoenix toon suffers a debuff they recover 25% of their max health.
Whenever they take damage they have bonus protection appear if they don't currently have any.
So you damage them, they get bonus protection. You burn that down and hit them again, and they generate more bonus protection.
Not only does debuffing these guys not hurt them, it helps them.
Seriously, these guys are like Kylo Ren, go ahead and throw dots on them, it leads to good things for them.
The survivability these toons have is monstrous. There's never any need to worry about losing on offense,
Again your Sith debuffs will NOT HELP you against these toons. You need PURE DAMAGE."Woodroward;970104" wrote:
"Kyno;970098" wrote:
"Woodroward;970047" wrote:
"Kyno;969977" wrote:
"Woodroward;969699" wrote:
"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.
The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.
Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.
Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.
No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.
Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.
As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.
Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.
Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.
There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.
I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.
The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.
If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.
Good additions buff immunity.
The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.
Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.
Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.
If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.
You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.
Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.
The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.
AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.
Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed palp. Sid is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making.
Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.
Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.
Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.
Every time a phoenix toon suffers a debuff they recover 25% of their max health.
Whenever they take damage they have bonus protection appear if they don't currently have any.
So you damage them, they get bonus protection. You burn that down and hit them again, and they generate more bonus protection.
Not only does debuffing these guys not hurt them, it helps them.
Seriously, these guys are like Kylo Ren, go ahead and throw dots on them, it leads to good things for them.
The survivability these toons have is monstrous. There's never any need to worry about losing on offense,
Again your Sith debuffs will NOT HELP you against these toons. You need PURE DAMAGE.
AOE healing immunity. GG."Ig88isboss;970110" wrote:
"Woodroward;970104" wrote:
"Kyno;970098" wrote:
"Woodroward;970047" wrote:
"Kyno;969977" wrote:
"Woodroward;969699" wrote:
"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.
The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.
Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.
Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.
No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.
Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.
As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.
Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.
Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.
There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.
I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.
The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.
If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.
Good additions buff immunity.
The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.
Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.
Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.
If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.
You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.
Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.
The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.
AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.
Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed palp. Sid is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making.
Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.
Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.
Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.
Every time a phoenix toon suffers a debuff they recover 25% of their max health.
Whenever they take damage they have bonus protection appear if they don't currently have any.
So you damage them, they get bonus protection. You burn that down and hit them again, and they generate more bonus protection.
Not only does debuffing these guys not hurt them, it helps them.
Seriously, these guys are like Kylo Ren, go ahead and throw dots on them, it leads to good things for them.
The survivability these toons have is monstrous. There's never any need to worry about losing on offense,
Again your Sith debuffs will NOT HELP you against these toons. You need PURE DAMAGE.
AOE healing immunity. GG.
Which lasts for a turn or two. You get to burn off lots of bonus protection to maybe hit for a very minor amount of damage, next thing you know, it's their turn and they have full health and protection because they were too tanky for you to burn down when you could even manage to get past the taunts.
GG indeed."Woodroward;970104" wrote:
"Kyno;970098" wrote:
"Woodroward;970047" wrote:
"Kyno;969977" wrote:
"Woodroward;969699" wrote:
"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.
The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.
Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.
Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.
No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.
Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.
As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.
Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.
Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.
There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.
I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.
The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.
If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.
Good additions buff immunity.
The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.
Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.
Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.
If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.
You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.
Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.
The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.
AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.
Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed palp. Sid is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making.
Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.
Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.
Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.
Every time a phoenix toon suffers a debuff they recover 25% of their max health.
Whenever they take damage they have bonus protection appear if they don't currently have any.
So you damage them, they get bonus protection. You burn that down and hit them again, and they generate more bonus protection.
Not only does debuffing these guys not hurt them, it helps them.
Seriously, these guys are like Kylo Ren, go ahead and throw dots on them, it leads to good things for them.
The survivability these toons have is monstrous. There's never any need to worry about losing on offense,
Again your Sith debuffs will NOT HELP you against these toons. You need PURE DAMAGE.
Unless those debuffs are shock or healing immunity, 2 of the main buffs on a focused attack from a zaul team."Woodroward;970121" wrote:
"Ig88isboss;970110" wrote:
"Woodroward;970104" wrote:
"Kyno;970098" wrote:
"Woodroward;970047" wrote:
"Kyno;969977" wrote:
"Woodroward;969699" wrote:
"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.
The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.
Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.
Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.
No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.
Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.
As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.
Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.
Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.
There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.
I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.
The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.
If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.
Good additions buff immunity.
The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.
Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.
Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.
If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.
You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.
Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.
The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.
AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.
Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed palp. Sid is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making.
Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.
Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.
Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.
Every time a phoenix toon suffers a debuff they recover 25% of their max health.
Whenever they take damage they have bonus protection appear if they don't currently have any.
So you damage them, they get bonus protection. You burn that down and hit them again, and they generate more bonus protection.
Not only does debuffing these guys not hurt them, it helps them.
Seriously, these guys are like Kylo Ren, go ahead and throw dots on them, it leads to good things for them.
The survivability these toons have is monstrous. There's never any need to worry about losing on offense,
Again your Sith debuffs will NOT HELP you against these toons. You need PURE DAMAGE.
AOE healing immunity. GG.
Which lasts for a turn or two. You get to burn off lots of bonus protection to maybe hit for a very minor amount of damage, next thing you know, it's their turn and they have full health and protection because they were too tanky for you to burn down when you could even manage to get past the taunts.
GG indeed.
2 turns. And by then kanan is dead and your team just lost its best 'unique'. Game over."Kyno;970122" wrote:
"Woodroward;970104" wrote:
"Kyno;970098" wrote:
"Woodroward;970047" wrote:
"Kyno;969977" wrote:
"Woodroward;969699" wrote:
"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.
The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.
Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.
Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.
No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.
Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.
As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.
Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.
Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.
There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.
I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.
The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.
If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.
Good additions buff immunity.
The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.
Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.
Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.
If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.
You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.
Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.
The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.
AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.
Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed palp. Sid is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making.
Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.
Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.
Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.
Every time a phoenix toon suffers a debuff they recover 25% of their max health.
Whenever they take damage they have bonus protection appear if they don't currently have any.
So you damage them, they get bonus protection. You burn that down and hit them again, and they generate more bonus protection.
Not only does debuffing these guys not hurt them, it helps them.
Seriously, these guys are like Kylo Ren, go ahead and throw dots on them, it leads to good things for them.
The survivability these toons have is monstrous. There's never any need to worry about losing on offense,
Again your Sith debuffs will NOT HELP you against these toons. You need PURE DAMAGE.
Unless those debuffs are shock or healing immunity, 2 of the main buffs on a focused attack from a zaul team.
But again, they STILL get that automatically refreshing bonus protection, which means that your short term healing immunity and shock will wear off before you can wear them down enough to kill them. Then they regenerate it all.
Truth of the matter is, you didn't even get to attack the people you managed to have those debuffs on anyway because the taunter cleansed himself."Woodroward;970131" wrote:
"Kyno;970122" wrote:
"Woodroward;970104" wrote:
"Kyno;970098" wrote:
"Woodroward;970047" wrote:
"Kyno;969977" wrote:
"Woodroward;969699" wrote:
"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.
The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.
Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.
Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.
No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.
Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.
As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.
Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.
Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.
There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.
I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.
The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.
If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.
Good additions buff immunity.
The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.
Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.
Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.
If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.
You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.
Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.
The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.
AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.
Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed palp. Sid is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making.
Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.
Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.
Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.
Every time a phoenix toon suffers a debuff they recover 25% of their max health.
Whenever they take damage they have bonus protection appear if they don't currently have any.
So you damage them, they get bonus protection. You burn that down and hit them again, and they generate more bonus protection.
Not only does debuffing these guys not hurt them, it helps them.
Seriously, these guys are like Kylo Ren, go ahead and throw dots on them, it leads to good things for them.
The survivability these toons have is monstrous. There's never any need to worry about losing on offense,
Again your Sith debuffs will NOT HELP you against these toons. You need PURE DAMAGE.
Unless those debuffs are shock or healing immunity, 2 of the main buffs on a focused attack from a zaul team.
But again, they STILL get that automatically refreshing bonus protection, which means that your short term healing immunity and shock will wear off before you can wear them down enough to kill them. Then they regenerate it all.
Truth of the matter is, you didn't even get to attack the people you managed to have those debuffs on anyway because the taunter cleansed himself.
You don't recover protection with healing immunity..."Ig88isboss;970127" wrote:
"Woodroward;970121" wrote:
"Ig88isboss;970110" wrote:
"Woodroward;970104" wrote:
"Kyno;970098" wrote:
"Woodroward;970047" wrote:
"Kyno;969977" wrote:
"Woodroward;969699" wrote:
"Kyno;969678" wrote:
SA gets a 20% tm boost from zaul lead...all mods being equal, SA wins.
The importance of kanan also lies in the tenacity up for a target toon, he will cleanse himself, but leave everyone else open to many buffs.
Many of a zaul teams built in abilities break up or cancel out a lot of the uniques provided by the leader ability.
Many of the built in abilities in a zaul team counter the phoenix synergy, and phoenix team don't really bring in any of the current solutions to a zaul team, just on paper I know but that's all we have right now. I am hopeful we will see something, but not too much.
No, there is no automatic tm boost from zaul lead. He gives 20% tm on being crit or evading. It's a conditional bonus that depends upon that particular sith being attacked, AND another condition being met. All mods being equal, Chopper always wins.
Daze on 4/5 toons is irrelevant if you are forced to attack one that isn't dazed and will counter you.
Same with healing immunity. Put it on everyone. Does nothing if you can't attack them. Many of the debuffs in a Zaul team are great at countering Phoenix uniques INDIVIDUALLY, but not their synergy as a group.
As stated above, you are incorrect. Sith get all bonuses at the start of a battle also, just an fyi for you.
Most sith teams have 4/5 aoe attacks, and with daze on them you will not get a group counter, which is the danger of an aoe against a counter team.
Nihilus removes buffs on his basic, or the simple sub of b2 and no more taunt. Remove 1 toon weaken the whole team.
There is no team cleanser so most debuffs will run their course, this is a dangerous move for a non tanky team.
I am looking at the team as a whole, you should look at how effective debuffs can be to each of the uniques that they will have, and unlike any other team synergy, kill the toon weaken the team as a whole, not just remove the threat.
The current counters involve, whole team cleansing, tenacity up, and tm gain.
If you involve gk, then also crit immunity.
Good additions buff immunity.
The only ones brought to the fight by this full team is single cleanse and 2 tenacity up. Tm gain only on specials.
Specials being tied up by nihilus negates a few of these right off the bat.
Yeah I actually acknowledged that already but it became a post waiting to be approved.
If Sith Assasin goes before Chopper then it won't be a tough match for the Sith. If he doesn't The Maul team will not have an easy victory.
You are indeed not considering the group synergies. In a team that has health and protection regeneration, not dealing with debuffs is A-OK, so a group cleanse is unneeded. Counter attack isn't the only thing dangerous about the phoenix team. The health and protection regeneration actually will make them quite tanky, which is exactly what you yourself have just said is needed to deal with AoE with no cleanser.
Thank you for proving my point for me. Without Sith Assassin (who was not included in this scenario to begin with), it will be a close call and a tough match. Thank you for playing.
The TM gain on specials is alright. The Counter attack makes you want to shy away from them. The real power of this group is the dual taunts and the Health/protection regen.
AoE is inconsistent enough damage that even stopping those for a short period of time is irrelevant. The regeneration will overpower the damage from the AoE. Even if they get dazed, AoE doesn't mean anything to this group.
Most teams that I encounter that run zaul also have SA for the speed boost, and if not it's still a struggle for you to put about 120 speed on chopper to get that taunt off, that's about what you would need to get faster then a 100 speed mod ed palp. Sid is pretty fast too, depends on the team someone is making.
Dots, HI, shock, 2 of the 4 of those directly counter uniques present and enough dots makes it a wash. Not dealing with debuffs against a zaul team is a good way to not win.
Daze removes half the leader ability by not allowing tm gain too.
Shock stops taunts too, so after the aoe, a focused attack with debuffs on a toon make these uniques start to fall apart. On paper that is, I hope I'm wrong but it's just not looking as solid as it did when I saw that leader ability.
Every time a phoenix toon suffers a debuff they recover 25% of their max health.
Whenever they take damage they have bonus protection appear if they don't currently have any.
So you damage them, they get bonus protection. You burn that down and hit them again, and they generate more bonus protection.
Not only does debuffing these guys not hurt them, it helps them.
Seriously, these guys are like Kylo Ren, go ahead and throw dots on them, it leads to good things for them.
The survivability these toons have is monstrous. There's never any need to worry about losing on offense,
Again your Sith debuffs will NOT HELP you against these toons. You need PURE DAMAGE.
AOE healing immunity. GG.
Which lasts for a turn or two. You get to burn off lots of bonus protection to maybe hit for a very minor amount of damage, next thing you know, it's their turn and they have full health and protection because they were too tanky for you to burn down when you could even manage to get past the taunts.
GG indeed.
2 turns. And by then kanan is dead and your team just lost its best 'unique'. Game over.
Kanaan cleansed himself so it didn't even stop him from healing, or counter attacking, or getting tm, or regenerating protection, etc.
The fact that you got the debuff on him to begin with means he wasn't taunting. Once he is, you aren't going to debuff him at all with all that bonus tenacity.
Yep, game over... for the Sith.
I'm going to guess your middle name is underestimate.
