Fix broken TW matchmaking

"Winterwolves;c-2452207" wrote:
My last 2 guilds took TW seriously, but still had the don't join if you can't attack rule. Regularly 45 players, sometimes 40. Over 70% wins. 41 players seems normal to me.

I think in my 6 years of playing, over 5 different guilds I have been in a TW with 50 players signed up from my guild maybe twice. That's been a range of being in TW never mentioned guild, recommend all join to get at least something guilds, only join if you fight guilds.

I'd imagine someone looking at the record of my last 2 guilds would claim sandbagging is obvious, but never have I seen anyone told not to join. I've joined nearly every one myself, never been told it was my turn to sit out.

40 players in tw is not serious aproach.

"Gawejn;c-2452209" wrote:

"Winterwolves;c-2452207" wrote:
My last 2 guilds took TW seriously, but still had the don't join if you can't attack rule. Regularly 45 players, sometimes 40. Over 70% wins. 41 players seems normal to me.

I think in my 6 years of playing, over 5 different guilds I have been in a TW with 50 players signed up from my guild maybe twice. That's been a range of being in TW never mentioned guild, recommend all join to get at least something guilds, only join if you fight guilds.

I'd imagine someone looking at the record of my last 2 guilds would claim sandbagging is obvious, but never have I seen anyone told not to join. I've joined nearly every one myself, never been told it was my turn to sit out.

40 players in tw is not serious aproach.

Says who?

"Gawejn;c-2452209" wrote:

"Winterwolves;c-2452207" wrote:
My last 2 guilds took TW seriously, but still had the don't join if you can't attack rule. Regularly 45 players, sometimes 40. Over 70% wins. 41 players seems normal to me.

I think in my 6 years of playing, over 5 different guilds I have been in a TW with 50 players signed up from my guild maybe twice. That's been a range of being in TW never mentioned guild, recommend all join to get at least something guilds, only join if you fight guilds.

I'd imagine someone looking at the record of my last 2 guilds would claim sandbagging is obvious, but never have I seen anyone told not to join. I've joined nearly every one myself, never been told it was my turn to sit out.

40 players in tw is not serious aproach.

I'm happy with over 70% wins. Serious enough for me.

"Gawejn;c-2452054" wrote:
Many guilds above 500mil gp are sandbaging. They prefer to have like 3 wins than 4 loses, despite that part of their guild is playing less tw, it is still better for them in rewards. It is funny when 2 such guilds are matched ;). My guild is considering doing the same, we are like 450mil and we would like to avoid guilds 550mil who can easily play in 40 players against guilds like mine. If game allows that, why not.

Not saying that guilds don't try to game it but to say *many* do it with your proof merely anecdotal from a few people you know isnt proof of many. TW is by far the worst game mode by a mile. Its completely unenjoyable. Expecting 50 people to be on call for 24 hours is frankly not fun nor realistic for most people that have lives. My guild is TW optional with the only TW rule of if you join you participate. We hardly ever get full guild join and that, frankly, is normal and ok and we dont apologize for it at all. That isn't sandbagging. And I'd bet that theres more of this than actual gaming of the MM process where guilds are making certain folks sit and not get rewards even if they want to play so that most of the others can. This is a game and asking people to be on or availalbe for that long is just stupid. TW needs to change to make it more individual so people that have families or work or whatever can do what they need to do when they have the time to do it in the day

"tile;c-2452220" wrote:

"Gawejn;c-2452054" wrote:
Many guilds above 500mil gp are sandbaging. They prefer to have like 3 wins than 4 loses, despite that part of their guild is playing less tw, it is still better for them in rewards. It is funny when 2 such guilds are matched ;). My guild is considering doing the same, we are like 450mil and we would like to avoid guilds 550mil who can easily play in 40 players against guilds like mine. If game allows that, why not.

Not saying that guilds don't try to game it but to say *many* do it with your proof merely anecdotal from a few people you know isnt proof of many. TW is by far the worst game mode by a mile. Its completely unenjoyable. Expecting 50 people to be on call for 24 hours is frankly not fun nor realistic for most people that have lives. My guild is TW optional with the only TW rule of if you join you participate. We hardly ever get full guild join and that, frankly, is normal and ok and we dont apologize for it at all. That isn't sandbagging. And I'd bet that theres more of this than actual gaming of the MM process where guilds are making certain folks sit and not get rewards even if they want to play so that most of the others can. This is a game and asking people to be on or availalbe for that long is just stupid. TW needs to change to make it more individual so people that have families or work or whatever can do what they need to do when they have the time to do it in the day

Is "Mandalorian Horizon" your guild?

"Legend91;c-2452226" wrote:

"tile;c-2452220" wrote:

"Gawejn;c-2452054" wrote:
Many guilds above 500mil gp are sandbaging. They prefer to have like 3 wins than 4 loses, despite that part of their guild is playing less tw, it is still better for them in rewards. It is funny when 2 such guilds are matched ;). My guild is considering doing the same, we are like 450mil and we would like to avoid guilds 550mil who can easily play in 40 players against guilds like mine. If game allows that, why not.

Not saying that guilds don't try to game it but to say *many* do it with your proof merely anecdotal from a few people you know isnt proof of many. TW is by far the worst game mode by a mile. Its completely unenjoyable. Expecting 50 people to be on call for 24 hours is frankly not fun nor realistic for most people that have lives. My guild is TW optional with the only TW rule of if you join you participate. We hardly ever get full guild join and that, frankly, is normal and ok and we dont apologize for it at all. That isn't sandbagging. And I'd bet that theres more of this than actual gaming of the MM process where guilds are making certain folks sit and not get rewards even if they want to play so that most of the others can. This is a game and asking people to be on or availalbe for that long is just stupid. TW needs to change to make it more individual so people that have families or work or whatever can do what they need to do when they have the time to do it in the day

Is "Mandalorian Horizon" your guild?

Where did you find this guild? They always win.. 550 mil guild which is going against opponents like 400mil and they win with such a margin of points. Like their oponents cant clear one zone. If they dont sandbag on purpose...this is situation that cg should adress. I had same expierience so far with another guild. Wall of gl leia.and they were playing like 75% of their guild. It was like a heavy weight boxer wanted to fight in middle weight. And be proud after winning...

"Gawejn;c-2452229" wrote:

"Legend91;c-2452226" wrote:

"tile;c-2452220" wrote:

"Gawejn;c-2452054" wrote:
Many guilds above 500mil gp are sandbaging. They prefer to have like 3 wins than 4 loses, despite that part of their guild is playing less tw, it is still better for them in rewards. It is funny when 2 such guilds are matched ;). My guild is considering doing the same, we are like 450mil and we would like to avoid guilds 550mil who can easily play in 40 players against guilds like mine. If game allows that, why not.

Not saying that guilds don't try to game it but to say *many* do it with your proof merely anecdotal from a few people you know isnt proof of many. TW is by far the worst game mode by a mile. Its completely unenjoyable. Expecting 50 people to be on call for 24 hours is frankly not fun nor realistic for most people that have lives. My guild is TW optional with the only TW rule of if you join you participate. We hardly ever get full guild join and that, frankly, is normal and ok and we dont apologize for it at all. That isn't sandbagging. And I'd bet that theres more of this than actual gaming of the MM process where guilds are making certain folks sit and not get rewards even if they want to play so that most of the others can. This is a game and asking people to be on or availalbe for that long is just stupid. TW needs to change to make it more individual so people that have families or work or whatever can do what they need to do when they have the time to do it in the day

Is "Mandalorian Horizon" your guild?

Where did you find this guild? They always win.. 550 mil guild which is going against opponents like 400mil and they win with such a margin of points. Like their oponents cant clear one zone. If they dont sandbag on purpose...this is situation that cg should adress. I had same expierience so far with another guild. Wall of gl leia.and they were playing like 75% of their guild. It was like a heavy weight boxer wanted to fight in middle weight. And be proud after winning...

yep, that's my guild. we don't tell anyone to sit or rotate people in or out of TW. i would imagine we would lose players we told to sit and not get any rewards just so a bunch of others can get better rewards? ya...that wouldn't fly. when we recruit we tell recruits from the start that we are not a TW guild. if they love TW we aren't for them and we can help them find a TW focused guild. we have no problem playing "better" guilds if thats who we match up against. but that's not our problem. we play the game as it is currently designed.

the underlying solution to the issue OP posted about should be a better MM algorithm or a complete rethinking of what a guild vs guild game mode should be but your premise that "many" guilds are sandbagging is just not substantiated. maybe its true. maybe it isn't. what i do know is that a game developer asking their players...a vast majority of whom likely have full time jobs and significant others or kids to be on call for 24 hours for a game is absolutely insane.

"Legend91;c-2452226" wrote:

"tile;c-2452220" wrote:

"Gawejn;c-2452054" wrote:
Many guilds above 500mil gp are sandbaging. They prefer to have like 3 wins than 4 loses, despite that part of their guild is playing less tw, it is still better for them in rewards. It is funny when 2 such guilds are matched ;). My guild is considering doing the same, we are like 450mil and we would like to avoid guilds 550mil who can easily play in 40 players against guilds like mine. If game allows that, why not.

Not saying that guilds don't try to game it but to say *many* do it with your proof merely anecdotal from a few people you know isnt proof of many. TW is by far the worst game mode by a mile. Its completely unenjoyable. Expecting 50 people to be on call for 24 hours is frankly not fun nor realistic for most people that have lives. My guild is TW optional with the only TW rule of if you join you participate. We hardly ever get full guild join and that, frankly, is normal and ok and we dont apologize for it at all. That isn't sandbagging. And I'd bet that theres more of this than actual gaming of the MM process where guilds are making certain folks sit and not get rewards even if they want to play so that most of the others can. This is a game and asking people to be on or availalbe for that long is just stupid. TW needs to change to make it more individual so people that have families or work or whatever can do what they need to do when they have the time to do it in the day

Is "Mandalorian Horizon" your guild?

yes...altho apparently we used a bunch of weird characters at inception that there are unfixable holes in our name now

At my guild we have won our last 21 TWs. During that time we’ve never had a full 50/50, and I’d guess the average is about 42 or 43. We do make TW a priority, everyone has omi and team requirements, but players only sign up if they can be active in all phases. There’s no sandbagging though, it’s just people not having the time because of real life commitments. Last time around we had 32,l sign up, as a combination of people having commitments and a few people having strikes for poor choices in previous TWs (the first time in a while). No one was told or asked to sit out for a better matchup, and no one was in any of the previous 20 either.

I don’t buy that sandbagging happens because ‘someone in a guild told me so’ or because only 41 or 42 people signed up. If guild officers are ordering it then they’re d-bags and are only hurting their guilds, but I’d expect it’s the vast minority.

“TW is not mandatory in my guild but we are not sandbagging” hahah.. yes, you with a guild where only 40 players join TWs, are sandbagging. Call it what you want.