Galactic Power is a broken way to run the matchmaking

"Stenun;c-2250881" wrote:
I'm saying that GP is not an accurate way of comparing "Like v Like" no matter how we look at the definition of "Like" in that context - whatever you want to say GP is used for, it doesn't do that use well.
And using it for matchmaking is a joke and results in hideously unfair matches every iteration of the Territory War. And if you are really unlucky, your guild will get hit with that bad luck more than others.
And I strongly suspect that everyone posting in this thread telling me how wrong I am and how great GP is as a matchmaking tool has never had the misfortune to be in such a position.

"It doesn't happen to me so I will ignore, dismiss and argue with all the people saying it happens to them", right?

It allows players choices on where they invested resources to shine through. What you keep pointing to are not realistic situations to make this part of match making seem worse than it actually is.

Many people have bad matches, but not due to this. More often than not, it's due to how they build their roster.

Do you have any real examples of GP measure making an issue you would like to discuss, that dont involve multiples of the same character, chromium luck on a single toon, or a scenario where the entire guild made the same bad choice and carried a lot of bloat into a match?

We all follow the same rules, and many have developed great strategies for how to develop based on these rules. Yes this may have a down side for someone not so strategic, but shouldn't the better strategist win?

"Kyno;c-2250886" wrote:

We all follow the same rules, and many have developed great strategies for how to develop based on these rules. Yes this may have a down side for someone not so strategic, but shouldn't the better strategist win?

I see four problems with this argument:

1) It was not implemented right from the start of the game's life and indeed characters we were actively encouraged to farm years ago, we are now actively encouraged NOT to farm as they would hurt us in matchmaking. The Jawas are a very good example of this. Ages ago, the Mod Challenges were faction locked - you had to have certain factions geared up to fight in each Mod Challenge set and the Speed Mods required Jawas. So I spent ages farming up my Jawas so I could complete the top Tier of the Speed Mods Challenge and I did it. And then the faction requirement was removed and my Jawas have never seen use again and now they are a liability in inflating my score for matchmaking.
Because these rules have NOT been there from the start, there are hundreds of guilds, thousands of players, who are in the same boat. So while I was a good little soldier years ago and farmed my Jawas because the game told me to do so, I am now being penalised for it by having it count against me.
So "we all followed the same rules" is not true - not every player followed the rules to farm their Jawas because the rules keep changing.
And it's not just Jawas, there are loads of characters we all farmed in the early days because they were the best ones to get who are now no longer worth it and inflate our GP. The power creep of new characters is an inevitable consequence of the game's longevity but it does mean that the GP we all generated years ago is now not worth the GP we are getting today.
So no, we have NOT all followed the same rules.

2) "The better strategist should win" is only valid if matching based on GP was a fair indication of a player's/guiild's strategy. But it's not.
For example, Sandbagging is a major problem and it only works because the matchmaking is done based on the GP of the players who sign up.

3) Your argument, if implemented by all, would stop everyone from participating in Marquee events or indeed any event or action that unlocks a new character we are not instantly ready to get to relic level. All new characters we unlock at 3 stars slowly inflates our GP and slowly, cumulatviely, over time, across the guild, this punishes us. Or are you seriously going to claim it's good strategy to not unlock new characters until you have the gear to get them immediately to g13?

4) This is supposed to be a Star Wars game. We play for the Star Wars characters. And now suddenly I'm going to be penalised because I want Princess Leia in my collection? Sure, I accept she's not the best character in the game but she's Princess flipping Leia and this is Star Wars. Your argument would have everyone avoiding the Star Wars nature of the game and only going for the elite characters regardless of who they are. Enfys Nest is a much better character in game than Princess Leia but I refuse to accept an argument that says in a Star Wars game you should farm Enfys Nest to g7 but don't unlock Princess Leia. That's just daft.

"Stenun;c-2250897" wrote:

"Kyno;c-2250886" wrote:

We all follow the same rules, and many have developed great strategies for how to develop based on these rules. Yes this may have a down side for someone not so strategic, but shouldn't the better strategist win?

I see four problems with this argument:

1) It was not implemented right from the start of the game's life and indeed characters we were actively encouraged to farm years ago, we are now actively encouraged NOT to farm as they would hurt us in matchmaking. The Jawas are a very good example of this. Ages ago, the Mod Challenges were faction locked - you had to have certain factions geared up to fight in each Mod Challenge set and the Speed Mods required Jawas. So I spent ages farming up my Jawas so I could complete the top Tier of the Speed Mods Challenge and I did it. And then the faction requirement was removed and my Jawas have never seen use again and now they are a liability in inflating my score for matchmaking.
Because these rules have NOT been there from the start, there are hundreds of guilds, thousands of players, who are in the same boat. So while I was a good little soldier years ago and farmed my Jawas because the game told me to do so, I am now being penalised for it by having it count against me.
So "we all followed the same rules" is not true - not every player followed the rules to farm their Jawas because the rules keep changing.
And it's not just Jawas, there are loads of characters we all farmed in the early days because they were the best ones to get who are now no longer worth it and inflate our GP. The power creep of new characters is an inevitable consequence of the game's longevity but it does mean that the GP we all generated years ago is now not worth the GP we are getting today.
So no, we have NOT all followed the same rules.

2) "The better strategist should win" is only valid if matching based on GP was a fair indication of a player's/guiild's strategy. But it's not.
For example, Sandbagging is a major problem and it only works because the matchmaking is done based on the GP of the players who sign up.

3) Your argument, if implemented by all, would stop everyone from participating in Marquee events or indeed any event or action that unlocks a new character we are not instantly ready to get to relic level. All new characters we unlock at 3 stars slowly inflates our GP and slowly, cumulatviely, over time, across the guild, this punishes us. Or are you seriously going to claim it's good strategy to not unlock new characters until you have the gear to get them immediately to g13?

4) This is supposed to be a Star Wars game. We play for the Star Wars characters. And now suddenly I'm going to be penalised because I want Princess Leia in my collection? Sure, I accept she's not the best character in the game but she's Princess flipping Leia and this is Star Wars. Your argument would have everyone avoiding the Star Wars nature of the game and only going for the elite characters regardless of who they are. Enfys Nest is a much better character in game than Princess Leia but I refuse to accept an argument that says in a Star Wars game you should farm Enfys Nest to g7 but don't unlock Princess Leia. That's just daft.

1) yes we do follow the same rules the rules for TW have been here as long as the game mode has. TW has been around long enough for any player to develop past "their mistakes" or find a way to use them, and changing the GP calculation doesn't change any of this.

2) mismatches based on number of players in a guild is an issue, and that has nothing to do with GP calculation of a character.

3)it would only stop people who misunderstand what GP is and how much variance there is in the matchmaking process and how little a marquee effects that. but again, if a guild wants to implement a strategy of not unlocking those characters to reduce the small amount of GP a unleveled and ungeared toon adds, sure why not. I can assure you that that decision would have less effect on their record than a farming guide based on their map strategy. Moving forward is always the best strategy, make the plan, work the plan, and try to use anything at your disposal.

4)no you are not being penalized for making a decision about what you want. but every choice has both an up side and a down side. a collector, a PVP player, and a PvE player are all going to have different rosters that play each game mode differently, the balance each player finds is on them and based on how they feel and want to play the game. the game is not going to cater to make anyone better in a game mode they are not trying to be better in on their own.

you are playing a game about a game, in a cantina, in the star wars universe. it doesn't really follow lore, or a story line based on the movies, books, or shows.

What is it with people on this site struggling so much with analogies?
Either people bend the analogy to breaking point or they tear holes in what is clearly an example of a wider issue and think that just by discrediting this one example analogy suddenly the whole argument is bunk.

There is a much broader issue here which is a serious problem in the game and when I talk about the problem with generalisations, people tell me to be more specific. When I talk about the problem with specifics, people say it's "ludicrious" and can't be used as an example of the more general problem.
It's quite clear that people just don't want to talk about the problem.

So whatever. I'm done.

But GP is broken and not fit for the purpose of matchmaking.

"DarjeloSalas;c-2250912" wrote:

Your example is ludicrous. Are your jawas still in your top 100 GP toons?

It is ludicrous for the Straw Man representation of my words that you are currently attacking, yeah.
My whole point about the Jawas was purely to illustrate that we are not, nor have not, all been playing by the same rules. I never claimed that my Jawas are a massive liability, I used them as one example of the much wider problem.
And I think you know that.
And I also think that if I were to use another example to illustrate the problem, you would have the same reaction: "oh it's ludicrousous to say that your OG Jedi are a liability" or "oh it's ludicrous to say that your WIggs is a liability", etc. We would dance this dance dozens of times and you would still avoid the actual point I was trying to make.
We are not, nor ever have been, all been playing by the same rules.

And it is responses like yours which are the reason I am not going to bother with this thread any more.
I'm responding one final time to give a better, calmer, explanation of why I am now going to stop because my last message was a bit rushed. But I feel I have explained it properly now and won't respond to this thread again. No matter how many people misrepresent me, accuse me of not being specific enough, accuse me of being too specific, or whatever.

Good day.

Matchmaking is broken. Peace, out.

I like when OPs abandon thread.

"Stenun;c-2250935" wrote:

"DarjeloSalas;c-2250912" wrote:

Your example is ludicrous. Are your jawas still in your top 100 GP toons?

It is ludicrous for the Straw Man representation of my words that you are currently attacking, yeah.
My whole point about the Jawas was purely to illustrate that we are not, nor have not, all been playing by the same rules. I never claimed that my Jawas are a massive liability, I used them as one example of the much wider problem.
And I think you know that.
And I also think that if I were to use another example to illustrate the problem, you would have the same reaction: "oh it's ludicrousous to say that your OG Jedi are a liability" or "oh it's ludicrous to say that your WIggs is a liability", etc. We would dance this dance dozens of times and you would still avoid the actual point I was trying to make.
We are not, nor ever have been, all been playing by the same rules.

And it is responses like yours which are the reason I am not going to bother with this thread any more.
I'm responding one final time to give a better, calmer, explanation of why I am now going to stop because my last message was a bit rushed. But I feel I have explained it properly now and won't respond to this thread again. No matter how many people misrepresent me, accuse me of not being specific enough, accuse me of being too specific, or whatever.

Good day.

Matchmaking is broken. Peace, out.

one last time, what part of the rules for TW matchmaking, or GP calculation are we not all equally subject to?

also your last line there is a whole nother topic. Matchmaking has its issues, yes. GP calculation (which was the topic of your post at the beginning) is not the major or real contribution to that problem. again, GP is to measure where a player has chosen to put resources. if they value Princess Leia more than Nest, that is their choice, and if they can't make a good team around her, that is going to be a problem for them if they also want to be competitive in game modes where she is not as useful.

one last thing, I just wanted to ask:

if you took a snap shot of 1 players rosters and just listed out the number of toons at each gear level, then gave 2 players a blank slate to place those gear levels on whatever toons they choose (having to follow requirements for events if they want a toon from an event).

would that be a fair match?

"Stenun;c-2250935" wrote:

"DarjeloSalas;c-2250912" wrote:

Your example is ludicrous. Are your jawas still in your top 100 GP toons?

It is ludicrous for the Straw Man representation of my words that you are currently attacking, yeah.
My whole point about the Jawas was purely to illustrate that we are not, nor have not, all been playing by the same rules. I never claimed that my Jawas are a massive liability, I used them as one example of the much wider problem.
And I think you know that.
And I also think that if I were to use another example to illustrate the problem, you would have the same reaction: "oh it's ludicrousous to say that your OG Jedi are a liability" or "oh it's ludicrous to say that your WIggs is a liability", etc. We would dance this dance dozens of times and you would still avoid the actual point I was trying to make.
We are not, nor ever have been, all been playing by the same rules.

And it is responses like yours which are the reason I am not going to bother with this thread any more.
I'm responding one final time to give a better, calmer, explanation of why I am now going to stop because my last message was a bit rushed. But I feel I have explained it properly now and won't respond to this thread again. No matter how many people misrepresent me, accuse me of not being specific enough, accuse me of being too specific, or whatever.

Good day.

Matchmaking is broken. Peace, out.

then forget jawas and give us an example that does matter