Grand Arena HUGE Matchmaking mistake

"leef;c-1763525" wrote:

"Rath_Tarr;c-1763492" wrote:


Ultimately though, there will need to be some measure of player skill factored into matchmaking. The most obvious one being win-loss ratio. Players with better ratio get matched with tougher opponents. Ones with poorer ratios get matched with weaker opponents.

Otherwise, no matter what you do there are going to be players who get curb-stomped and others who have easy wins.

Why? Don't more skillfull players deserve to win more often?

Curb-stomping random n00bs does not make one skillful.

"leef;c-1763525" wrote:
The only way i would prefer to play vs better opponents systematically because i keep winning is if that also comes with better rewards.

I would have no issue with scaling rewards to skill level.

"leef;c-1763525" wrote:
Equality of outcome in a competative game mode is not desirable imo. "rigging" the system so that everyone has roughly the same win-loss ratio seems silly to me. What's the point in wanting to win if that inevitably leads to eventually losing more often?
I'd call that fixing one problem by creating a different problem. A less desirable problem imo.

Pitting players against comparable opponents gives them a chance to win or to learn from a loss. Getting stomped every time just discourages them from playing.

"Rath_Tarr;c-1763654" wrote:

Curb-stomping random n00bs does not make one skillful.

No, it's the other way around. If you're skillful, you can curb-stomp random noobs.

I would have no issue with scaling rewards to skill level.

If they did that it would atleast make sense to group players based on skill level.

Pitting players against comparable opponents gives them a chance to win or to learn from a loss. Getting stomped every time just discourages them from playing.

Right, but artificially manipulating the players' win/loss ratio by matching them with either stronger or weaker opponents makes all the effort players put in this game mode trivial. No matter what you do, you'll end up with the same results as the next guy. Unless you'll get better rewards when you're in a higher reward tier due to winning alot ofcourse.
I'm not sure what's preferable though, the current system or being matched based on both roster strenght and player skill resulting in 50/50 winloss ratio across the board with better rewards for higher "skill tiers". It kinda depends on how much better the rewards will get and if they will be scaled correctly so that players can't "game the system".
Personally i prefer to be matched on roster strenght alone and let "skill" determine who wins. An argument could be made that developing a roster that's suitable for GA can be considered a "skill" aswell. I for one mostly win due to my roster, not because i'm such a great GA player. Please note that i'm not only referring to the optimal usefull toons/GP ratio, but also the choice of which toons you geared, which zetas you applied, how good your mods are and how you choose to equip them. Having alot of g12 toons, but relatively low GP due to having very little fluff doesn't necessarily make your roster suitable for GA. It does obviously help and ideally you want both; the right toons/mods and a great g12/GP ratio.
End of the day if you want to reward players for being better it will inevitably lead to other players being discouraged because they're not that great at swgoh, there's no way around that. All the game needs to do in my opinion is provide equal oppertunity. Matchmaking based on GP kinda does that, it's far from ideal though.

I had a matchup where my opponent had me by 200k character GP. Most opponents I have I have the ship advantage. In 3s I feel punished for putting resources into it. It's already bad enough I have the pilots geared that are useless outside of fleet.

From time to time is always here.
There has been always a few mismatches ever since GA started and even if you have player A with 2m gp in toons where he focused heavily on synergy and teams will most likely outclass player B with 2m gp in toons but more widely spreader and less high geared most of the time.
Although that is more fair than starting with a straight forward disadvantage which players have right now whom GP from ships is counted as well albeit having no chance of using them

"Kai_Mulai;c-1761271" wrote:
The developers needed an easy way to do matchmaking in grand arena. Galactic power is something the system can quickly check and provides mostly balanced matches. It's not intended to be completely fair, since they clearly encourage spending to gain advantage. Someone with an arena Revan team is going to do exceptionally well regardless of the rest of their power. And there are going to be some players who invest more heavily into characters, some who invest heavily into ships, and some who are more balanced. The matching format is set in GA, and the battle format changes to shake things up.

My guess is the real reason most are complaining is because you got matched with someone who outclasses you and who you doubt you can win against. That is likely to happen sometimes unless you're a regular spender who typically stays at the top of your arena rankings. But that's just part of the game. By looking at the teams you face and examining what works and does not work in your attacks and defenses, you'll know what to focus on to improve. And when you get matched with someone you can't beat, you can just shrug and admit that happens from time to time as well.

Wrong, character value is an already determined value in the game itself. The AI does the math an populated that value. Matchmaking is supposed to put you with others of the same caliber, not gaps because your roster is handicapped by design.

"Nihilmus;c-1761345" wrote:
I just got matched with a player, we both have the same overall GP. He has 200k more character GP than me with 30 zetas and 26 G12 toons vs my 12 zetas and 12 G12 toons. He has zWampa, zHoda and JTR (I have my JTR now but only got her after this GA started). I have 200k more ship GP than him and Millenium Falcon unlocked at 5* but it’s irrelevant because this 3v3 only matches us with characters and not a single ship territory. Who do you think did a full clear first try and who barely got half territories down? Either remove ship GP when calculating char Vs char GA’s only or it’s going to continue being skewed like this. And this is just the beginning of fixing the matchmaking. We were told this would be a true test of skill not an overpower clown fiesta.

It’s a rather obvious issue and fix but tons of folks helped by the GP fake matchup will say it’s working fine.

I would guess that they still include the ship portion of your overall GP, as if you have a larger ship GP, you should therefore do better in fleet arena, therefore will get better rewards for fleet arena, therefor have more resources to spend on your roster.

If they only include character GP, then the extra rewards that larger ship GP will have given, would then give you an advantage over someone else who didn't have the larger ship GP

"DarjeloSalas;c-1763056" wrote:
What some users seem to want is a matchmaking system where there is effectively 7 clones of their own roster in their GA group, so that no decision they've ever made will ever come back to haunt them.

What some users seems to want is a matchmaking system which gives them easy wins because of their 1337 not_pressing_the_activate_button skillz.

"DarjeloSalas;c-1763056" wrote:
The current matchmaking system, however, provides easy excuses for anyone who loses:
- I lost because I have more ship GP and less character GP than my opponents

I won my bracket 3-0 this time despite having over 50% of my GP tied up in unusable ships and seeing opponents with 11-45% more usable GP than me. (Thankfully I did not face the latter opponent)

That does not make it fair or balanced. It simply means that I out-modded and out-played my opponents on this occasion.

On occasions where I do encounter similarly well modded opponents, I usually lose because I am at a significant GP disadvantage which allows them to overwhelm my defense either by having more high-power toons or by zerging it with a larger roster of sufficiently powerful toons. Neither of which requires much skill.

"DarjeloSalas;c-1763056" wrote:
You guys are speaking my language.

What some users seem to want is a matchmaking system where there is effectively 7 clones of their own roster in their GA group, so that no decision they've ever made will ever come back to haunt them.

The current matchmaking system, however, provides easy excuses for anyone who loses:

- I lost because I have more ship GP and less character GP than my opponents
- I lost because my opponent has got Revan / Traya / HMF
- I lost because my opponent has got more g12
- I lost because my opponent has got more zetas
- I lost because my opponent has got more +20 speed mods

Unless the matchmaking pitted them against 7 direct clones of their own roster, many of the people making the above complaints will always find some reason, other than their own failings, as to why they lost.

I don't own Revan (I will in <48 hours) and have faced 7 Revan owners in GA. I've lost 3 of those battles (outstripped for efficiency twice, abject tactical failure once) and won the other 4. I wonder what the 4 people I beat blamed for them losing?

Yes, some people want a better matchmaking system, cause the actuell is working not good for them. They stated in detail why to maybe to get a better one.

Its good for you that you never made bad decissions which came back haunting you. No complaining necessary for you, fine.
I think maybe you are the best strategic player in this game, i am praising your skill.

As I stated, the fact that I was able to overcome my GP handicap does not make the system fair or balanced.

Matchmaking by total GP for all squad or all fleet events is the most obvious issue and should be the easiest to resolve. They already calculate the breakdown for other uses and it's a single input parameter to the matchmaking process which has the same type and scale whether you use fleet, squad or combined.

Ultimately though, there will need to be some measure of player skill factored into matchmaking. The most obvious one being win-loss ratio. Players with better ratio get matched with tougher opponents. Ones with poorer ratios get matched with weaker opponents.

Otherwise, no matter what you do there are going to be players who get curb-stomped and others who have easy wins.