I’ve got to say the matchmaking in this game for TW and GA are TRASH, especially since they nerfed every non GL counter. Before the nerf if someone had more GL’s than you you still had a chance to win but now there is no chance. My recent GA opponent has 4 GL’s and I have 2 so it was an instant GG. I have slkr and see and they had put kenobi with some trash Jedi on defence. I only have wat to put with see and kenobi still beat him because of the stupid buffs they gave him and they beat my slkr. The nerfs have happened and take a lot of the fun out but if they want GL’s to be unbeatable by non GL’s then don’t match people with people who have more or less GL’s because it’s unfair.

So, if he only had JMK, you still wouldn’t beat him even if you would have more GLs than him ?

"XKurareX;c-2299952" wrote:"Gifafi;c-2299903" wrote:You control the matchmaking. If you are facing 4 GL’s when you have 2 you have a lot of roster bloat, at least in comparison to your opponent Hilarious.Its like saying racing with a Porsche vs a Gremlin, calling it a fair race and telling you forgot to tune your engine and invested too much in the seats and stereo system.With the GL system as of now it is simply a bad MM.(point)If the Porsche owner and Gremlin owner invested the same amount of resources developing their cars then it's fair, yes. They both know that they will be matched with others who invested the same amount of resources. How they spend their resources is up to themselves. No, it's not an even match - but it's a fair match. Developing your car is part of the competition.

"XKurareX;c-2299952" wrote:"Gifafi;c-2299903" wrote:You control the matchmaking. If you are facing 4 GL’s when you have 2 you have a lot of roster bloat, at least in comparison to your opponent Hilarious.Its like saying racing with a Porsche vs a Gremlin, calling it a fair race and telling you forgot to tune your engine and invested too much in the seats and stereo system.With the GL system as of now it is simply a bad MM.(point)Hilarious!It's more like two guys start with the same amount of money and one buys an older Porsche while the other buys an AMC Gremlin and spends the rest on shiney rims, a hood scoop and a garish paint job.No prizes for guessing who wins the race or who's fault it is that he lost. :D

"XKurareX;c-2300019" wrote:Apparently you think the median GP is the result of same "investment" - and i am not sure that this would be the actual truth.Multiple R3 will have a higher median GP than the same relic gear in one character i am afraid.The next thing is you race in classes out of a reason. Like LMH, LMP2, LMGTE PRO, LMGTE AM - its like what is possible in certain frames to have a real competition going.2-3 GL vs 4-6 GL is not the same class. No matter what the MM is trying to tellThe 2-3 GL player will still have similar relevant/matchmaking GP as the 4-6 GL player if they are matched. Hence it's the same class.

Talk is about Arithmetic mean of top X charsX - depending on divisionOne wants to add all together, but in the end its just simply the "Arithmetic mean" of top X. Its the same in the very end for this matter.However it does not cover GLs being basically unbeatable in certain combos and does not reflect a real strength. It became after the nerf to multiple chars just a useless point system - which is the whole point. Some want only free wins without any effort, thats all.And yes most people on Earth actually do not talk English as their first language and even second language.

Grand arena matchmaking | EA Forums

perfidius44
Rising Newcomer
4 years ago
So, if he only had JMK, you still wouldn’t beat him even if you would have more GLs than him ?
Waquira
4 years ago
"XKurareX;c-2299952" wrote:
"Gifafi;c-2299903" wrote:
You control the matchmaking. If you are facing 4 GL’s when you have 2 you have a lot of roster bloat, at least in comparison to your opponent

Hilarious.

Its like saying racing with a Porsche vs a Gremlin, calling it a fair race and telling you forgot to tune your engine and invested too much in the seats and stereo system.

With the GL system as of now it is simply a bad MM.(point)

If the Porsche owner and Gremlin owner invested the same amount of resources developing their cars then it's fair, yes. They both know that they will be matched with others who invested the same amount of resources. How they spend their resources is up to themselves. No, it's not an even match - but it's a fair match. Developing your car is part of the competition.
Rath_Tarr0
4 years ago
"XKurareX;c-2299952" wrote:
"Gifafi;c-2299903" wrote:
You control the matchmaking. If you are facing 4 GL’s when you have 2 you have a lot of roster bloat, at least in comparison to your opponent

Hilarious.

Its like saying racing with a Porsche vs a Gremlin, calling it a fair race and telling you forgot to tune your engine and invested too much in the seats and stereo system.

With the GL system as of now it is simply a bad MM.(point)

Hilarious!

It's more like two guys start with the same amount of money and one buys an older Porsche while the other buys an AMC Gremlin and spends the rest on shiney rims, a hood scoop and a garish paint job.

No prizes for guessing who wins the race or who's fault it is that he lost. :D
Waquira
4 years ago
"XKurareX;c-2300019" wrote:
Apparently you think the median GP is the result of same "investment" - and i am not sure that this would be the actual truth.
Multiple R3 will have a higher median GP than the same relic gear in one character i am afraid.

The next thing is you race in classes out of a reason. Like LMH, LMP2, LMGTE PRO, LMGTE AM - its like what is possible in certain frames to have a real competition going.

2-3 GL vs 4-6 GL is not the same class. No matter what the MM is trying to tell

The 2-3 GL player will still have similar relevant/matchmaking GP as the 4-6 GL player if they are matched. Hence it's the same class.
X-Kurare-X
4 years ago
Talk is about Arithmetic mean of top X chars
X - depending on division

One wants to add all together, but in the end its just simply the "Arithmetic mean" of top X. Its the same in the very end for this matter.
However it does not cover GLs being basically unbeatable in certain combos and does not reflect a real strength. It became after the nerf to multiple chars just a useless point system - which is the whole point. Some want only free wins without any effort, thats all.

And yes most people on Earth actually do not talk English as their first language and even second language.
perfidius44
Rising Newcomer
4 years ago
"XKurareX;c-2300148" wrote:
Some want only free wins without any effort, thats all.

Roster management is strategy. Implying that it doesn't take any effort to build a roster that gives you an advantage in battle probably explains why we strongly disagree about the subject at hand.
Waquira
4 years ago
"XKurareX;c-2300148" wrote:

However it does not cover GLs being basically unbeatable in certain combos and does not reflect a real strength.

You're absolutely right. Top-X GP doesn't reflect actual roster strength. That's why we have the strategic aspect of building a strong roster. How you build your roster influences your performance in GAC.
Rath_Tarr0
4 years ago
"XKurareX;c-2300428" wrote:
"Rath_Tarr;c-2300391" wrote:
"XKurareX;c-2300145" wrote:
"Rath_Tarr;c-2300112" wrote:
"XKurareX;c-2300019" wrote:
Apparently you think the median GP is the result of same "investment" - and i am not sure that this would be the actual truth.
Multiple R3 will have a higher median GP than the same relic gear in one character i am afraid.

Apparently you think that median GP is relevant. It isn't and frankly it wouldn't even make much sense in this context.

You are matched on top x GP, same as everyone else. How you allocate that GP is on you.

"XKurareX;c-2300019" wrote:
The next thing is you race in classes out of a reason. Like LMH, LMP2, LMGTE PRO, LMGTE AM - its like what is possible in certain frames to have a real competition going.

2-3 GL vs 4-6 GL is not the same class. No matter what the MM is trying to tell

The closest analogy to competitive classes here is the division which keeps 6m GP players separate from 1m GP players.

And once again, you are matched on top x GP the same as everyone else. How you allocate that GP is on you.

I hope you are not trying to teach me about math. Because X stays same for this comparison - so if i take the median from the top chars or simply add them together i will get the same result in final if i sort the final result. In the end the comparison is a median result of the top chars. If its easier for you to simply add them and get 1 huge pointless number so be it - but it still will result in the same final sort result.

Again, irrelevant. You are matched on the sum of the GP of the top x characters & ships and you control that because you decide which characters.and ships get upgraded, by how much and when.

Ships are not counted in for the MM (considering the enormous GP of certain crappy ships this actually does makes sense). Only place ships have an influence is your division.

Wrong. Doja confirmed with the devs that ship GP is included almost a year ago in this thread

"XKurareX;c-2300428" wrote:
Every GL is like a bigger engine - if you match with less you have a very easy time. This has absolutely nothing to do with a manage of your roster strength. I have been in top 10 kyber multiple times without such a tuned roster and in the end a mm is done for actually balancing opponents and not doing the opposite and giving away free wins.

Ditch the car analogies, they're not working you.

GAC matchmaking starts with roster management. It always has done. That was the effect of changing from the full roster GP matching of GA to top x GP. It gave everyone the same opportunity to influence their matchmaking outcomes. Some people owned that, others did not.
Rath_Tarr0
4 years ago
"nottenst;c-2300624" wrote:
"XKurareX;c-2299952" wrote:
"Gifafi;c-2299903" wrote:
You control the matchmaking. If you are facing 4 GL’s when you have 2 you have a lot of roster bloat, at least in comparison to your opponent

Hilarious.

Its like saying racing with a Porsche vs a Gremlin, calling it a fair race and telling you forgot to tune your engine and invested too much in the seats and stereo system.

With the GL system as of now it is simply a bad MM.(point)

If you are working towards a GL, invariably you will be matched with someone with at least one more GL than you. The matchmaking right now is a very poor system especially as a result of all the nerfs that went in.

How you work towards that GL affects your matchmaking the same way any other upgrades do. You decide what to apply and when.

"nottenst;c-2300624" wrote:
Saying that "roster management is strategy" is just a poor excuse for CG's matchmaking software. It should be better. It should be looking for a competitive balance and not just their GP numbers.

Blaming CG's matchmaking algorithm is just a poor excuse for failing to manage your roster effectively.
X-Kurare-X
4 years ago
"Rath_Tarr;c-2300778" wrote:
"nottenst;c-2300743" wrote:
"Rath_Tarr;c-2300716" wrote:
"nottenst;c-2300678" wrote:
The whole point of matchmaking should be to make a competitive match between the two sides. If you can tell just by running the numbers through a discord bot that one side will blow the other side away, then the matchmaking is deficient. It is as simple as that.

While it might be good for a quick laugh to be able to blow the other side away in GAC or TW it does not make a for a satisfying battle on either side. The best experiences in both of these are when the match is close. If they incorporated the number of GLs into the matchmaking algorithm it would make the matches closer.

If you are relying on discord stat bots to determine win / loss then you have already failed. I don't even bother with them because they don't tell me what I need to know and I have finished Kyber in every single GAC.

The point of roster management is to effectively use your resources so that you can have a fun and productive experience across all game modes, including GAC. You don't have to min-max your roster to be effective but you do have to pay attention to it.

Making special allowances for GLs is the start of a slippery slope. If people are matched based on number of GLs then what about other "unbeatable" squads? Shouldn't lower GP players be matched on whether they have GAS? DR+Malak? Padme? JKR? Geos? Phoenix? Where does it end and who decides what is fair?

The discord bots apply more to TW than GAC to see how many GLs each guild does have. A quick look at the roster in GAC is good enough. The point is that a simple tool is out there that could make better matches.

The nerfing of the GL counters already took things beyond any slippery slope. It is extremely easy check that even CG developers could use to make better matches.

My current opponent and I have the same number of GLs, however I have JMK+CAT while he does not and I also have Executor while he does not.

I can block him in squad, fleet or both. Is that not unfair? Should the matchmaker not also take into account the types of GL on each side? Whether both players have Executor or not?

A blocker is a blocker, regardless of whether it is a GL or not.

"nottenst;c-2300743" wrote:
I didn't notice, but was the GP of the nerfed characters correspondingly reduced? If not, they should at least have done that.

Was the GP of GLs and their prerequisites reduced when they were beatable by far more easily acquired characters which cost a fraction of their MM GP and resource investment?

"nottenst;c-2300743" wrote:
The point about the GLs is that they want it so that only GLs should be able to defeat GLs. That is their current design, so they should take that into account in the matchmaking. It should be an extremely simple concept to grasp without worrying about other ramifications.

No. The point is that a blocker is a.blocker, regardless of whether it is a GL or not. Ignoring that fact merely reveals the selfishness of the demand to treat GLs differently. But accepting it and attempting to factor in all potential blockers in matchmaking is an exercise in futility.

"nottenst;c-2300743" wrote:
For lower GP players there are a lot more divisions, so it could be that balancing those previously "unbeatable" squads might not as big a deal.

Which squads/fleets should be considered blockers and in which divisions is far from a trivial question. Moreover any such assessment is highly subjective and no matter the outcome, will almost certainly lead to even more complaints. Not to mention the additional algorithmic complexity required and the likelihood of introducing other problems in the process.

Or players could simply take responsibility for managing their own rosters.

You know JML can actually beat JMK?
You know even Padme CAT can to some extend of rng beat it...
Executor can be 2-shot without any problems.

I am not sure which type of quality opponents you are matched with, but with exception of more GLs you cannot block a smart player. And nowadays there is no block with exception of good GL squads.

And your argument of managing rosters is just putting the whole MM in hands of the players. Thats kind of very odd in the end. Maybe considering your "block strategy" i do get an idea how you manage your wins. Play against 900k-1m+ opponents and your theories wont work - pure GLs + cleanest one shots than only count.