HK-47 rework

"Droideka;c-1805869" wrote:

"CazNeerg;c-1805853" wrote:
What, exactly, is the narrative justification for *any* of the droid characters having a leader tag? The one that comes the closest to being a leader in any of the source material is R2, and none of the droids from the squad he arguably led are even in the game.

If you want to go down that path, there are a metric ton of characters with leader abilities that have no narrative justification for having them.

Mostly early releases before they started focusing on synergy. Those should all lose the leader abilities too.

"MD_Geist;c-1805885" wrote:

"Droideka;c-1805869" wrote:

"CazNeerg;c-1805853" wrote:
What, exactly, is the narrative justification for *any* of the droid characters having a leader tag? The one that comes the closest to being a leader in any of the source material is R2, and none of the droids from the squad he arguably led are even in the game.

If you want to go down that path, there are a metric ton of characters with leader abilities that have no narrative justification for having them.

This

@CazNeerg
L3 leads a Droid Rebellion
IG88 lead his own copies
Grievous lead Seperatist Droids

Cut HK and you are more or less left with Grievous since IG88 is more a (Bad) BH lead and while 3 viable leads for 16 faction toons would be solid, 1 (Grievous) lead isnt. Keep in mind Nobody see good enough future Droid leads since faction is really complet currently

I didn't mention Grievous because, despite how he is tagged, he isn't actually a droid.

IG88 leading his own copies is only relevant if they let you make a squad of IG-88 copies. L3's "rebellion" lasts about 30 seconds, and none of those droids are in the game.

Droids in Star Wars aren't leaders. They are literally built to be support characters.

"CazNeerg;c-1805967" wrote:

"Droideka;c-1805869" wrote:

"CazNeerg;c-1805853" wrote:
What, exactly, is the narrative justification for *any* of the droid characters having a leader tag? The one that comes the closest to being a leader in any of the source material is R2, and none of the droids from the squad he arguably led are even in the game.

If you want to go down that path, there are a metric ton of characters with leader abilities that have no narrative justification for having them.

Mostly early releases before they started focusing on synergy. Those should all lose the leader abilities too.

"MD_Geist;c-1805885" wrote:

"Droideka;c-1805869" wrote:

"CazNeerg;c-1805853" wrote:
What, exactly, is the narrative justification for *any* of the droid characters having a leader tag? The one that comes the closest to being a leader in any of the source material is R2, and none of the droids from the squad he arguably led are even in the game.

If you want to go down that path, there are a metric ton of characters with leader abilities that have no narrative justification for having them.

This

@CazNeerg
L3 leads a Droid Rebellion
IG88 lead his own copies
Grievous lead Seperatist Droids

Cut HK and you are more or less left with Grievous since IG88 is more a (Bad) BH lead and while 3 viable leads for 16 faction toons would be solid, 1 (Grievous) lead isnt. Keep in mind Nobody see good enough future Droid leads since faction is really complet currently

I didn't mention Grievous because, despite how he is tagged, he isn't actually a droid.

IG88 leading his own copies is only relevant if they let you make a squad of IG-88 copies. L3's "rebellion" lasts about 30 seconds, and none of those droids are in the game.

Droids in Star Wars aren't leaders. They are literally built to be support characters.

Would you call Old Ben a leader? How about Farmboy Luke? Heck, even big names like Darth Maul weren’t ever leaders. He was literally raised to be a servant for Palpatine, aka a support. Yet they have leader abilities in game. Why? For fun. People love many factions, and those factions need leaders.

"Droideka;c-1805975" wrote:

Would you call Old Ben a leader? How about Farmboy Luke? Heck, even big names like Darth Maul weren’t ever leaders. He was literally raised to be a servant for Palpatine, aka a support. Yet they have leader abilities in game. Why? For fun. People love many factions, and those factions need leaders.

For fun? Old Ben and Farmboy Luke have leader tags for the same reason HK does, because the launch roster was anemic, and they needed more leaders. Whether it made sense for a given character or not. And the *version* of Darth Maul that has a leader tag shouldn't, but later versions should. He led both Savage Oppress and a massive criminal organization.

"CazNeerg;c-1805853" wrote:

Droids in Star Wars aren't leaders. They are literally built to be support characters.

Found a well written answer on Reddit about Droid leads and that "droids are only Support for other factions":

"This is a nonsense statement. C-3PO, Chopper, and K2 are designed to work with other factions. Droideka and Magnaguard are designed to work with Separatists moreso than Droids or even specifically Separatist Droids. The 11 other droids in the game all either grant bonuses to other droids, get bonuses from being used with other droids, have Target Lock synergy, or some combination of the above.

And it's not like they recently changed this either; look at T3-M4's kit, which includes 2 zetas that literally only do anything when used with other droids, and basically no Old Republic synergy. Or L3's zeta which also is useless on a Prepared squad and only matters when she gets run with other droids. That refrain around here about how Jedi Training Rey is the best droid leader? Well, the core truth behind that is that JTR synergizes amazingly with BB-8, and BB-8 synergizes amazingly well with other droids.

Droid squads are a thing, they have arguably the oldest faction synergy in the game (back at release, HK, IG-86, IG-88 and Poggle was one of the few teams whose faction-specific benefits were strong enough that it mattered whether you ran them together or not), and to argue that "that's just not what droids are designed for" shows a complete lack of understanding of the faction."

From mstormcrow

"MD_Geist;c-1806240" wrote:

"CazNeerg;c-1805853" wrote:

Droids in Star Wars aren't leaders. They are literally built to be support characters.

Found a well written answer on Reddit about Droid leads and that "droids are only Support for other factions":

"This is a nonsense statement. C-3PO, Chopper, and K2 are designed to work with other factions. Droideka and Magnaguard are designed to work with Separatists moreso than Droids or even specifically Separatist Droids. The 11 other droids in the game all either grant bonuses to other droids, get bonuses from being used with other droids, have Target Lock synergy, or some combination of the above.

And it's not like they recently changed this either; look at T3-M4's kit, which includes 2 zetas that literally only do anything when used with other droids, and basically no Old Republic synergy. Or L3's zeta which also is useless on a Prepared squad and only matters when she gets run with other droids. That refrain around here about how Jedi Training Rey is the best droid leader? Well, the core truth behind that is that JTR synergizes amazingly with BB-8, and BB-8 synergizes amazingly well with other droids.

Droid squads are a thing, they have arguably the oldest faction synergy in the game (back at release, HK, IG-86, IG-88 and Poggle was one of the few teams whose faction-specific benefits were strong enough that it mattered whether you ran them together or not), and to argue that "that's just not what droids are designed for" shows a complete lack of understanding of the faction."

From mstormcrow

Maybe I was being unclear; I wasn't saying the game was designed around droids not being leaders. I was talking about the narrative of Star Wars. There are virtually no droids who ever lead anything in the franchise, and in the extremely limited examples where they did, none of the droids who did the *following* of those droid leaders are in this game.

At launch, a lot of characters had leader abilities which (narratively speaking) they probably shouldn't have, because *somebody* needed to have leader abilities, and for whatever reason that hadn't included enough of the characters that actually warrant them. And, again displaying a lack of any kind of coherent plan, CG threw a leader ability on HK-47 to make up for the fact that none of the characters he is actually supposed to synergize with were in the game, and without a droid leader ability he had no real niche.

As new characters display much better overall design and faction synergy, it would be nice if reworks of older characters would start not just changing but *eliminating* leader abilities which never should have existed in the first place, like HK, Farmboy Luke, and Old Ben.

"CazNeerg;c-1806288" wrote:

"MD_Geist;c-1806240" wrote:

"CazNeerg;c-1805853" wrote:

Droids in Star Wars aren't leaders. They are literally built to be support characters.

Found a well written answer on Reddit about Droid leads and that "droids are only Support for other factions":

"This is a nonsense statement. C-3PO, Chopper, and K2 are designed to work with other factions. Droideka and Magnaguard are designed to work with Separatists moreso than Droids or even specifically Separatist Droids. The 11 other droids in the game all either grant bonuses to other droids, get bonuses from being used with other droids, have Target Lock synergy, or some combination of the above.

And it's not like they recently changed this either; look at T3-M4's kit, which includes 2 zetas that literally only do anything when used with other droids, and basically no Old Republic synergy. Or L3's zeta which also is useless on a Prepared squad and only matters when she gets run with other droids. That refrain around here about how Jedi Training Rey is the best droid leader? Well, the core truth behind that is that JTR synergizes amazingly with BB-8, and BB-8 synergizes amazingly well with other droids.

Droid squads are a thing, they have arguably the oldest faction synergy in the game (back at release, HK, IG-86, IG-88 and Poggle was one of the few teams whose faction-specific benefits were strong enough that it mattered whether you ran them together or not), and to argue that "that's just not what droids are designed for" shows a complete lack of understanding of the faction."

From mstormcrow

Maybe I was being unclear; I wasn't saying the game was designed around droids not being leaders. I was talking about the narrative of Star Wars. There are virtually no droids who ever lead anything in the franchise, and in the extremely limited examples where they did, none of the droids who did the *following* of those droid leaders are in this game.

At launch, a lot of characters had leader abilities which (narratively speaking) they probably shouldn't have, because *somebody* needed to have leader abilities, and for whatever reason that hadn't included enough of the characters that actually warrant them. And, again displaying a lack of any kind of coherent plan, CG threw a leader ability on HK-47 to make up for the fact that none of the characters he is actually supposed to synergize with were in the game, and without a droid leader ability he had no real niche.

As new characters display much better overall design and faction synergy, it would be nice if reworks of older characters would start not just changing but *eliminating* leader abilities which never should have existed in the first place, like HK, Farmboy Luke, and Old Ben.

Someone mentioned that at some point HK did lead a droid army

after this rework i cannot see hk-47 as a leader in a full droid-team.

to take away 40 turnmeter and give 20% critical damage instead isn‘t enough.

:-(

https://forums.galaxy-of-heroes.starwars.ea.com/discussion/198483/kit-rework-hk-47#latest