It's time to balance Baze/Chirrut

I didn't bother with them for quite some time as I was building my sith/empire teams but now I'm farming them. Might as well since R2 is here and there are a lot of good combos to consider with Chaze a centerpiece of them.

And yes, they are annoying. Not unbeatable but definitely a lot of effort is required in many cases.

"scuba;c-1058556" wrote:

"Nikoms565;c-1058289" wrote:

"Carth_Onassi1973;c-1058223" wrote:
Respectfully disagree on the Chaze nerf/balance.

By themselves, they're cannon fodder. They need to be together to have the synergy to make them great. Sorta like wiggs. And droids. And zaul.

Okay, first, let me say two things:

1) As a general rule, I am opposed to nerfs of any kind. I think they unfairly punish paying customers - and those that "paid" with time and gear.

2) I have no dog in this fight. I can beat Chaze teams and finish #1 arena if I am available around my payout time (that's a different discussion)

Those two things said, I DO think Chaze need to be "balanced". Anyone suggesting that they are not OP to some degree either hasn't played against/with 7* versions at max gear or is simply trying to defend their team. When paired together they do almost everything that they do better than any other character that does them. A tank with an AoE debuff that also calls a strong attacker to assist. An attacker that not only hits like a truck but cleanses and heals - and calls the tank to assist. Both of their basics also have abilities attached to them. Oh, and they both counter most of the time - with those basics.

Now, the above would be a sufficient reason to take a close look at them for rebalancing - but the things that makes it almost a no-brainer are:

1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).

2) They have no direct counter.

3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.

They tried to make a direct counter. They just forgot to give Deathtrooper some good stats to go with his kit.

I would also add that you can say the first two things about Nihilus (who has roughly double the usage of Baze or Chirrut on the Meta report), but everyone got him for free so we don't see 80 different nerf threads around...

As for the rebels argument, Rebels are only still relevant because of R1 and Chaze (and now R2). When was the last time you saw Wiggs near the top of a mature server? Nerf Chaze utility and you wind up with yet another faction with loads of important characters that can't compete.

Buff block is not an effective counter since Chirrut is rarely the only cleanser on the team.

Chirrut should have his cleanse ability removed alltogether, that way people that want to run double/triple cleanse teams have to give up somthing. Would he still not be the best attacker/healer in game? Yes he would.

"Riktoven;c-1058585" wrote:
Buff block is not an effective counter since Chirrut is rarely the only cleanser on the team.

Chirrut should have his cleanse ability removed alltogether, that way people that want to run double/triple cleanse teams have to give up somthing. Would he still not be the best attacker/healer in game? Yes he would.

So you think a special ability that only equalizes health and doesn't cleanse (and therefore doesn't HoT) would be the best in the game.

An interesting position. Gotta say I pretty wholeheartedly disagree...

Keep the heal over time, just don't remove the debuffs.

"Atlas1;c-1058273" wrote:
I'll add this. Thrawn with a unique like this would be cool:
Unique: Study Their Tactics (Zeta) - When an enemy gains a buff, every member of your team gains that buff.

Best thing here. I like the idea, and it fits with the lore pretty well.

As far as the "Chaze OP" discussion goes, I'm gonna kinda just sit on the fence. As a general rule, it'd be bad to nerf toons because you open the floodgates for a lot more balance fixes. Not that this is a terrible thing, some games make it work fine, but in a f2p p2w game (which this certainly is) you run the risk of upsetting the players that pay, from small spender to huge whale.

Chaze are strong because one of them has decent damage, they have a lot of tools in their kit, and they are extremely strong together. There are plenty of hard counters, and plenty of ways to deal with them that aren't direct counters though. I think the real problem here is that people think that they should just be able to pick a faction or a team and beat any other team with it, and that's just not the case. I still run into some Wiggs rebels in my GW and when my 2nd or 3rd GW team loses a person instantly in the battle, my first reaction is "****! how did that happen when I slightly overpower them?" Of course, if I continue to play I wind up with 3 toons to their 0. Its a pain in the butt in GW, but its not really unbalanced.

Also as stated they are now completely F2P farmable; if you think they're that OP then just farm and play them until the meta shifts away from them.

Last little note: I saw somebody mention win rate AND length of arena battles. The two are a little irrelevant to each other. Just because a team takes time to beat doesn't mean you didn't beat them, so I don't see how the length of an arena battle matters unless the combo is strictly there to time you out. Not a bad idea if you think about it; go high attack and climb up, then put a super strong defense combo in to hold for you.

"Riktoven;c-1058593" wrote:
Keep the heal over time, just don't remove the debuffs.

1: The HoT's come from the cleanse.

2: Even if you just added an equivalent number of HoT's to current debuffs it still largely negates the heal. Chirrut's HoT's have the lowest percentage value in the game. Even simple DoT debuffs would effectively cancel them out, to say nothing of buff immunity, shock, and heal immunity...

Your statement that without the cleanse he would still be the best is just objectively false.

"fascizio;c-1058617" wrote:

"Riktoven;c-1058593" wrote:
Keep the heal over time, just don't remove the debuffs.

1: The HoT's come from the cleanse.

2: Even if you just added an equivalent number of HoT's to current debuffs it still largely negates the heal. Chirrut's HoT's have the lowest percentage value in the game. Even simple DoT debuffs would effectively cancel them out, to say nothing of buff immunity, shock, and heal immunity...

Your statement that without the cleanse he would still be the best is just objectively false.

HoTs are there for Boba.

"SnakesOnAPlane;c-1058123" wrote:


As for IW, it persisting for Baze after Chirrut dies has been argued to death many a times. However, it clearly states in the description that it applies to Baze as long as he is present. It's not Chirrut granting it, per se. They both share the ability, but it requires both to be on the team together. It's another ability of Baze, but he doesn't get it unless he and Chirrut are both available at the start of the match. No different than Baze's Dauntless Courage. Nothing bugged here.

Same goes with Vader's basic: wasn't bugged until it was fixed, when it was it became a bug, so that it could be called a bug fix rather than a nerf. Pretty convenient. We are waiting for the same to happen to chaze.

As for Talia and Daka, do you actually use them? I have no idea what you're referring to in regards to them, honestly.

When an attacker heals 10 times more than a healer (in the worst case) it should be clear even to yourself that he's op, or bad designed if you prefer (we know people around this forum make a huge issue about the wording more than about the semantics).

"Morpheus;c-1058648" wrote:

"fascizio;c-1058617" wrote:

"Riktoven;c-1058593" wrote:
Keep the heal over time, just don't remove the debuffs.

1: The HoT's come from the cleanse.

2: Even if you just added an equivalent number of HoT's to current debuffs it still largely negates the heal. Chirrut's HoT's have the lowest percentage value in the game. Even simple DoT debuffs would effectively cancel them out, to say nothing of buff immunity, shock, and heal immunity...

Your statement that without the cleanse he would still be the best is just objectively false.

HoTs are there for Boba.

lol