It's time to balance Baze/Chirrut

"danflorian1984;c-1058287" wrote:

"Crazylazyguy;c-1058259" wrote:

"danflorian1984;c-1058258" wrote:

"Crazylazyguy;c-1058256" wrote:
Again.. Really?
http://i.imgur.com/SFkV6eO.gif

Why?

Because it's annoying obviously? Nobody is able to discuss in this forum because the pages are filled with nerf X character because it's too OP. Obviously there are ways, otherwise the top 1 spot would be held by the same player everyday if he has X character. This is not the case, so that means the toon is not so op/unbeatable. They WON'T nerf it simply because it's not out of balance. People cried about Zaul, cried about Wiggs, cried(and continue to cry) about triple cleanse, cry(currently) about Chaze.. Use your head and find ways to beat it, if you can't then too bad, continue playing until you can.

People obviously feel very strong about this topic if there are so many threads deficated to it. And as players with the same rights as you they have the right to express their feelings. Your frustration in dealing with this topics is not even 10 th percent of the frustration that people have when dealing with the toons in the game.

The game is not out of balance? well then what is the outher side of the scales? the counters? Are they as good as Chaze, GK and a few other? BTW what are the dark equivalents to Chaze or GK ?

Please enough of this, there are no more than a 100 people out of MILLIONS who cry about this. 1 moron posted 4, FOUR exact same threads about this stu pid topic yesterday. So it's not a lot of people who are "frustrated", it's 20 people who spam this and for some reason the mods aren't taking any action in the matter.

"Nikoms565;c-1058289" wrote:

1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).

2) They have no direct counter.

3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.

1) Then that's great! A combo that is good in many situations, more characters should be universal. And such characters actually do exist. Zylo is an example. Boba is also universal.

2) Yes they do. Characters who can apply buff immunity, who can apply stun or who can apply target lock. The thing about those characters is that they need to have somewhat decent speed.

3) Don't bring up this thing again. We finally got rid of the "nerf rebels" threads.

"danflorian1984;c-1058287" wrote:


The game is not out of balance? well then what is the outher side of the scales? the counters? Are they as good as Chaze, GK and a few other? BTW what are the dark equivalents to Chaze or GK ?

Krennic/DT. DT directly counters Baze and Chirrut.
Maul eats GK for breakfast.

I'm impressed with how quick the threads have shifted from nerf zDM to nerf Chaze.

"Nikoms565;c-1058289" wrote:


1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).

2) They have no direct counter.

3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.

I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout. So I do face them, and I don't use them. I don't even have them. I have no reason to defend them for personal benefit. To your points I'd say:


1) Lots of toons function great on any team individually without the need of a specific other toon. These 2 really need eachother. Chirrut more so. You mentioned Wiggs who absolutely can go into lots of teams as the DPS without Wedge lead.

2) There are tons of direct counters. I used to destroy them with STHan in the previous meta. A counter attack that does little damage fed me TM until Baze was dead and almost nobody on his team had moved yet. Stormtrooper has been reworked to have a similar effect. Zader with an AoE dispeller also ruins their day. Multiple toons do amplified amounts of damage to toons with lots of buffs. We just need more options for counters in more factions. And that's what will happen. Faction passes are the plan moving forward.

3) Sith are the strongest faction. Rebels are one of the largest. But there are still very bad Rebel toons whereas every single Sith in the game is arena viable in some team comp. And just because a faction is big or strong doesn't mean a toon in it should be nerfed. In fact if for instance Bounty Hunters get a faction pass, and you then have a legit support squad to run with Boba (who already counters Chaze to death single handedly) then it would reduce the nerf talk.

So are they on a higher level than lots of toons? Yes. And they are very easily beaten multiple ways with a variety of toons.

The main problem (which the devs have stated explicitly) is that many of the original toons that came out with the game were underwhelming to begin with, and need to be updated to the new power level. Faction passes for bad teams/characters are coming. Nerfs aren't going to happen.

"Nikoms565;c-1058289" wrote:

"Carth_Onassi1973;c-1058223" wrote:
Respectfully disagree on the Chaze nerf/balance.

By themselves, they're cannon fodder. They need to be together to have the synergy to make them great. Sorta like wiggs. And droids. And zaul.

Okay, first, let me say two things:

1) As a general rule, I am opposed to nerfs of any kind. I think they unfairly punish paying customers - and those that "paid" with time and gear.

2) I have no dog in this fight. I can beat Chaze teams and finish #1 arena if I am available around my payout time (that's a different discussion)

Those two things said, I DO think Chaze need to be "balanced". Anyone suggesting that they are not OP to some degree either hasn't played against/with 7* versions at max gear or is simply trying to defend their team. When paired together they do almost everything that they do better than any other character that does them. A tank with an AoE debuff that also calls a strong attacker to assist. An attacker that not only hits like a truck but cleanses and heals - and calls the tank to assist. Both of their basics also have abilities attached to them. Oh, and they both counter most of the time - with those basics.

Now, the above would be a sufficient reason to take a close look at them for rebalancing - but the things that makes it almost a no-brainer are:

1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).

2) They have no direct counter.

3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.

@Nikoms565 exactly my point. Together, which I mentioned, they are fantastic. The synergy they have with just two of them makes them plug and play in ANY squad, as you mentioned. You add any combo of boba, zylo, nihilus, rex, GK, etc. etc, super tough team to beat. And yes, most of my top ten has Chaze in their squad from 4* maxed to 7* maxed.

My response to the "nerf Chaze" thing, was based on the fact that alone - according to MY experience from battling them on a daily basis - they get crushed. They need to be together in or to be excellent.

Which is why I mentioned would disagree that they need a nerf. If they were rediculously over powered alone, then the conversation would have merit. I too am generally against Nerfs. There has always been a work around to meta teams, regardless of how stron they are.

My previous examples of zaul, wiggs, droids were only to illustrate that those are factions where the sum is greater than its parts. Together, they are very strong.

Basically brother, we're on the same page.

Everything is beatable in this game but what you use to beat someone is likely far easier to beat. i can crush Chaze with my Nihilus lead lineup but if I leave them in for long, I will be targeted and knocked down by all the people who would rather avoid Chaze.

This is why "they have counters" isn't a good barometer for balance. Whoever uses Chaze can beat other lineups without much of a fuss and will drop less than others using Chazeless lineups.

A viscious circle where everyone moves to Chaze to gain the same advantages is the result. Until there is a reliable team that can hold versus Chaze on defense - a real counter - the chazificaion of arena will only continue.

"dough;c-1058344" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1058330" wrote:


I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.

just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?

There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.

"dough;c-1058352" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1058349" wrote:

"dough;c-1058344" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1058330" wrote:


I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.

just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?

There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.

dude, your fake high-road **** is almost as overtly wack as your ridiculous hyperbolic statements like -- "can be very easily beaten by a number of teams" -- really? ok, hotshot, first define "easily beaten" (win ratio/how long the battle took) then provide us with some footage of said victories. you have the floor.

Try searching YouTube yourself, and not cursing at strangers. Stay classy my friend.

"Carth_Onassi1973;c-1058340" wrote:

"Nikoms565;c-1058289" wrote:

"Carth_Onassi1973;c-1058223" wrote:
Respectfully disagree on the Chaze nerf/balance.

By themselves, they're cannon fodder. They need to be together to have the synergy to make them great. Sorta like wiggs. And droids. And zaul.

Okay, first, let me say two things:

1) As a general rule, I am opposed to nerfs of any kind. I think they unfairly punish paying customers - and those that "paid" with time and gear.

2) I have no dog in this fight. I can beat Chaze teams and finish #1 arena if I am available around my payout time (that's a different discussion)

Those two things said, I DO think Chaze need to be "balanced". Anyone suggesting that they are not OP to some degree either hasn't played against/with 7* versions at max gear or is simply trying to defend their team. When paired together they do almost everything that they do better than any other character that does them. A tank with an AoE debuff that also calls a strong attacker to assist. An attacker that not only hits like a truck but cleanses and heals - and calls the tank to assist. Both of their basics also have abilities attached to them. Oh, and they both counter most of the time - with those basics.

Now, the above would be a sufficient reason to take a close look at them for rebalancing - but the things that makes it almost a no-brainer are:

1) They can function on virtually any team (unlike Droids or Zaul or even Wiggs - who generally need Wedge in the lead to maximize their effectiveness).

2) They have no direct counter.

3) They are labelled as Rebels - already one of the strongest factions in the game.

@Nikoms565 exactly my point. Together, which I mentioned, they are fantastic. The synergy they have with just two of them makes them plug and play in ANY squad, as you mentioned. You add any combo of boba, zylo, nihilus, rex, GK, etc. etc, super tough team to beat. And yes, most of my top ten has Chaze in their squad from 4* maxed to 7* maxed.

My response to the "nerf Chaze" thing, was based on the fact that alone - according to MY experience from battling them on a daily basis - they get crushed. They need to be together in or to be excellent.

Which is why I mentioned would disagree that they need a nerf. If they were rediculously over powered alone, then the conversation would have merit. I too am generally against Nerfs. There has always been a work around to meta teams, regardless of how stron they are.

My previous examples of zaul, wiggs, droids were only to illustrate that those are factions where the sum is greater than its parts. Together, they are very strong.

Basically brother, we're on the same page.

I'll just add this to your response to @Nikoms565.

I don't even have Chirrut unlocked. Or maybe I do, but at minimal stars.

But somehow "magically" , I've stayed within range of #1 without a crystal refresh on a daily basis. I say magically, because no nerfers believe me anyway as they persist with the idea that chaze needs a nerf, so I must have an innate ability nerfers do not in swgoh. I must be the "David Blaine" of swgoh. No wonder some here need a nerf, they just can't keep up otherwise!

"dough;c-1058359" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1058355" wrote:

"dough;c-1058352" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1058349" wrote:

"dough;c-1058344" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1058330" wrote:


I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.

just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?

There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.

dude, your fake high-road **** is almost as overtly wack as your ridiculous hyperbolic statements like -- "can be very easily beaten by a number of teams" -- really? ok, hotshot, first define "easily beaten" (win ratio/how long the battle took) then provide us with some footage of said victories. you have the floor.

Try searching YouTube yourself, and not cursing at strangers. Stay classy my friend.

"JacenRoe;c-1058355" wrote:

"dough;c-1058352" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1058349" wrote:

"dough;c-1058344" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1058330" wrote:


I daily play against them at 7*/gear 11 battling for the number 1 spot at my payout.

just curious, does your arm ever get sore from patting yourself on the back so much? is there a single post that you contribute to these forums that doesn't involve some self-congratulatory spiel about how easy everything is or how you're no. 1 at your payout?

There was explicitly a comment made that said nobody who plays against them would defend them. So it was relevant. One thing I don't do is personally attack people I disagree with. That's the fallback position of someone with no valid argument.

dude, your fake high-road **** is almost as overtly wack as your ridiculous hyperbolic statements like -- "can be very easily beaten by a number of teams" -- really? ok, hotshot, first define "easily beaten" (win ratio/how long the battle took) then provide us with some footage of said victories. you have the floor.

Try searching YouTube yourself, and not cursing at strangers. Stay classy my friend.

so basically, you're full of it as u can only refer me to what someone else has accomplished--pretty much what i expected... u can't even provide anecdotal evidence to back up ur claim.

What about mythical evidence. I heard a legend once about a character who's damage was amplified by the buffs of his opponents.

https://youtu.be/1enPmOH-FnE