Levi is the worst meta ever!

"afaviator956;c-2440014" wrote:
Why did they decide to make one ship to rule them all? It’s the pinnacle of stupidity. Every yin needs a yang. Balance. Just like all the GLs are countered by some other GL, the Legendary ships should counter one another. Having to resort to extremely specific counters with extremely specific turn orders that still heavily rely on favorable RNG to possibly take down this meta ship is just asinine. Profundity beat Executor and vice versa. Balance. Profundity beat Leviathan and vice versa. Balance. Then some **** decided that old meta shouldn’t beat new meta and voila… balance is trashed. Now my shard top 6-9 is the same Levi fleets circle jerking each other for top 5 every day. Sometimes I feel like the devs are playing a different game, one in which they are actively trying to ruin the game and see if people still spend. They need to revert the changes asap. It wasn’t broken before. Now it is.

It was broken before because a Prof 3 ship fleet was laughing about the Levi and how it couldn't do anything to it's Ywing meaning it got an easy 77 banner win - it shouldn't be this brain dead easy.

Having to resort to specific counters with specific turn orders? What? Did you ever play smth outside of auto? Finalizer vs Exe requires careful play, Nego vs TA requires careful play, the new Empire vs Levi requires careful play - the majority of battles require careful play.

And the meta fleets (Prof, Exe, Levi) can still beat each other, there's just RNG to it and I wouldn't advise using Prof or Exe vs Levi as the Empire counter is more consistent (but also not fail proof).

"Legend91;c-2440018" wrote:

"afaviator956;c-2440014" wrote:
Why did they decide to make one ship to rule them all? It’s the pinnacle of stupidity. Every yin needs a yang. Balance. Just like all the GLs are countered by some other GL, the Legendary ships should counter one another. Having to resort to extremely specific counters with extremely specific turn orders that still heavily rely on favorable RNG to possibly take down this meta ship is just asinine. Profundity beat Executor and vice versa. Balance. Profundity beat Leviathan and vice versa. Balance. Then some **** decided that old meta shouldn’t beat new meta and voila… balance is trashed. Now my shard top 6-9 is the same Levi fleets circle jerking each other for top 5 every day. Sometimes I feel like the devs are playing a different game, one in which they are actively trying to ruin the game and see if people still spend. They need to revert the changes asap. It wasn’t broken before. Now it is.

It was broken before because a Prof 3 ship fleet was laughing about the Levi and how it couldn't do anything to it's Ywing meaning it got an easy 77 banner win - it shouldn't be this brain dead easy.

Having to resort to specific counters with specific turn orders? What? Did you ever play smth outside of auto? Finalizer vs Exe requires careful play, Nego vs TA requires careful play, the new Empire vs Levi requires careful play - the majority of battles require careful play.

And the meta fleets (Prof, Exe, Levi) can still beat each other, there's just RNG to it and I wouldn't advise using Prof or Exe vs Levi as the Empire counter is more consistent (but also not fail proof).

Never said it shouldn’t require careful play… I said extremely specific counters with extremely specific turn orders and still heavily reliant upon favorable RNG. This is fact and your mis characterization of my complaint doesn’t change that. I have an extremely low success rate vs all the Levis in my shard after the buff. 0 wins with Profundity because I haven’t gotten fortunate enough with assists. 0 wins with Executor, and maybe 10% win rate with the Chimaera counter, I suspect because my Iden isn’t relic’d. That’s not close to the balance we had before. Fully max Executor or Profundity fleets should still be relevant in arena. They just aren’t.

"afaviator956;c-2440029" wrote:
That’s not close to the balance we had before. Fully max Executor or Profundity fleets should still be relevant in arena. They just aren’t.

Why should they still be relevant? Because you want them to be?

"StarSon;c-2440033" wrote:

"afaviator956;c-2440029" wrote:
That’s not close to the balance we had before. Fully max Executor or Profundity fleets should still be relevant in arena. They just aren’t.

Why should they still be relevant? Because you want them to be?

Because they are not cheap to get and Prof is just a year old. People worked hard on them and spent lots of time/resources/money to get them.
They are the Ship GLs and should be treated/set in the game accordingly.

Making an expensive and the newest GL ship before Levi after only a year irrelevant in such a way is definitely not the right move!

"afaviator956;c-2440034" wrote:

"Captain_Drogan;c-2440031" wrote:

"afaviator956;c-2440029" wrote:

"Legend91;c-2440018" wrote:

"afaviator956;c-2440014" wrote:
Why did they decide to make one ship to rule them all? It’s the pinnacle of stupidity. Every yin needs a yang. Balance. Just like all the GLs are countered by some other GL, the Legendary ships should counter one another. Having to resort to extremely specific counters with extremely specific turn orders that still heavily rely on favorable RNG to possibly take down this meta ship is just asinine. Profundity beat Executor and vice versa. Balance. Profundity beat Leviathan and vice versa. Balance. Then some **** decided that old meta shouldn’t beat new meta and voila… balance is trashed. Now my shard top 6-9 is the same Levi fleets circle jerking each other for top 5 every day. Sometimes I feel like the devs are playing a different game, one in which they are actively trying to ruin the game and see if people still spend. They need to revert the changes asap. It wasn’t broken before. Now it is.

It was broken before because a Prof 3 ship fleet was laughing about the Levi and how it couldn't do anything to it's Ywing meaning it got an easy 77 banner win - it shouldn't be this brain dead easy.

Having to resort to specific counters with specific turn orders? What? Did you ever play smth outside of auto? Finalizer vs Exe requires careful play, Nego vs TA requires careful play, the new Empire vs Levi requires careful play - the majority of battles require careful play.

And the meta fleets (Prof, Exe, Levi) can still beat each other, there's just RNG to it and I wouldn't advise using Prof or Exe vs Levi as the Empire counter is more consistent (but also not fail proof).

Never said it shouldn’t require careful play… I said extremely specific counters with extremely specific turn orders and still heavily reliant upon favorable RNG. This is fact and your mis characterization of my complaint doesn’t change that. I have an extremely low success rate vs all the Levis in my shard after the buff. 0 wins with Profundity because I haven’t gotten fortunate enough with assists. 0 wins with Executor, and maybe 10% win rate with the Chimaera counter, I suspect because my Iden isn’t relic’d. That’s not close to the balance we had before. Fully max Executor or Profundity fleets should still be relevant in arena. They just aren’t.

Relic your Iden? I mean really, how can you complain that your counters aren't working if you don't invest in your roster?

Lol. I have 6 GLs and 2 Legendary cap ships. I’d say I’ve invested. Now I’m focusing all resources to unlock Levi next month. So yeah, not sure I want to relic a toon like that for a small chance that this counter might work slightly better.

We didn’t have a balance before. Prof was a hard counter to Levi (even better than mirror), so Prof was arguably the best fleet in da house. So the new ship wasn’t the meta, Prof was, which was an issue. Hence the need for an adjustment. As long as there are still soft counters around, I don’t see the problem tbh. Now if those soft counters had a 10% success rate as you experienced, I’d go aboard your train and support the need for more tinkering. But it doesn’t seem to be the case for a good chunk of players who experience a higher win rate.

So, as you identified that your Iden is the reason your win rate is so low with the Chimera soft counter (which might not be the case btw, mine is g12 and I enjoy more than 10% win rate) and took the informed decision not to relic her, I fail to understand where is the issue.

"Lumiya;c-2440045" wrote:

"StarSon;c-2440033" wrote:

"afaviator956;c-2440029" wrote:
That’s not close to the balance we had before. Fully max Executor or Profundity fleets should still be relevant in arena. They just aren’t.

Why should they still be relevant? Because you want them to be?

Because they are not cheap to get and Prof is just a year old. People worked hard on them and spent lots of time/resources/money to get them.
They are the Ship GLs and should be treated/set in the game accordingly.

Making an expensive and the newest GL ship before Levi after only a year irrelevant in such a way is definitely not the right move!

Oh, so, basically exactly how the Squad meta used to be? Except slower?

"Lumiya;c-2440045" wrote:

Making an expensive and the newest GL ship before Levi after only a year irrelevant in such a way is definitely not the right move!

They definitely could change gear next year, grant your wish and do what they did with recent GLs, where we don’t have one clear meta as it’s all about gac. I might even like it tbh.
But they clearly announced before the release that Leviathan would be the meta and players farmed accordingly to this announcement. So what they’re doing is staying true to what they said and I don’t see how we could blame them for that.

There is one meta, as they announced, and soft counters exist, as they should.

Those of you saying “soft counters exist” I’m not sure that you guys are actually using them. They can work, rarely, but not really useful when trying to climb for fleet arena. As evidenced anecdotally by my shard in that since the update the top ranks are dominated 24 hours a day by the handful of Levi ships. They don’t drop. In fact I’m the only one I’ve seen in my fleet shard actually climb into top 5 without Levi since the update.

Man... I like this meta way more than the early days of Negotiator. Negotiator mirrors were absolute torture back in the day.

Now, I see Levi+Sass, I use Empire (~90%). I see Levi+Dagger, I use Levi+Sass on auto. I see anything else (rarely), Levi on auto.

Agree with @iMalevolence , just get rid of crystals in fleet arena. Gonna happen at some point might as well be now.