Mods.. the true meta?

"Cyggy;c-1545961" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1545883" wrote:

"MntMan;c-1545879" wrote:
Yes but if gear = a, abilities = b, speed mods are c (not just regular mods, but speed focused primaries and secondaries) and all the other mods are d then the equation is a2 + b2 + c + d2 = Win.

That's the issue. One is weighted much more than the other and has a larger impact that the other. You cannot win if one of your values is zero versus someone who has all other components, but if you have speed you can maybe eek out someone that is a bit stronger in other areas than you so long as that area is not speed.

If you don't agree with this I understand. It may not be where you are in the game, but if you are trying to get to top 20 in the arena it makes sense. If you are trying to be in the top 200 and not as focused on other aspects of the game like being a top 3 or even top 10 in raids in your guild then it is not as much of a factor. I don't mean this as an insult or talking down. I'm far from top 20 myself. I'd like to get there, but like it is for Ricky Bobby, speed is the answer.

It's only weighted so severely because you are over simplifying it.

Those factors would be different depending on the mod you are in.

In arena b, when specifically regarding the leader ability (a zeta) that could matter way more than an above average speed team.

And a being as simple as you state it could be g9-10?? And that will be made up by mods?

I'm sorry its just not that simple of an equation to =win.

You dont even try to account for team synergy and turn order, which again can play a big part in certain game mods.

Except.. im top 10 daily due to speed vs g12s with my g10s.. even if im only 1 point faster.. mods are the deal breaker. If i can get my vader to hit four times before you go.. i win hands down.

I'll like to see you do that vs a slower rex lead team.

"leef;c-1545971" wrote:

"Cyggy;c-1545961" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1545883" wrote:

"MntMan;c-1545879" wrote:
Yes but if gear = a, abilities = b, speed mods are c (not just regular mods, but speed focused primaries and secondaries) and all the other mods are d then the equation is a2 + b2 + c + d2 = Win.

That's the issue. One is weighted much more than the other and has a larger impact that the other. You cannot win if one of your values is zero versus someone who has all other components, but if you have speed you can maybe eek out someone that is a bit stronger in other areas than you so long as that area is not speed.

If you don't agree with this I understand. It may not be where you are in the game, but if you are trying to get to top 20 in the arena it makes sense. If you are trying to be in the top 200 and not as focused on other aspects of the game like being a top 3 or even top 10 in raids in your guild then it is not as much of a factor. I don't mean this as an insult or talking down. I'm far from top 20 myself. I'd like to get there, but like it is for Ricky Bobby, speed is the answer.

It's only weighted so severely because you are over simplifying it.

Those factors would be different depending on the mod you are in.

In arena b, when specifically regarding the leader ability (a zeta) that could matter way more than an above average speed team.

And a being as simple as you state it could be g9-10?? And that will be made up by mods?

I'm sorry its just not that simple of an equation to =win.

You dont even try to account for team synergy and turn order, which again can play a big part in certain game mods.

Except.. im top 10 daily due to speed vs g12s with my g10s.. even if im only 1 point faster.. mods are the deal breaker. If i can get my vader to hit four times before you go.. i win hands down.

I'll like to see you do that vs a slower rex lead team.

I beat a rex lead daily mate.. its not like hes unique, hes all about tenacity, but if he cannot put it up because hes slow then gg?

Ironically the one guy faster than me i can turn into coin flip by putting thrawn lead

"Cyggy;c-1545973" wrote:

"leef;c-1545971" wrote:

"Cyggy;c-1545961" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1545883" wrote:

"MntMan;c-1545879" wrote:
Yes but if gear = a, abilities = b, speed mods are c (not just regular mods, but speed focused primaries and secondaries) and all the other mods are d then the equation is a2 + b2 + c + d2 = Win.

That's the issue. One is weighted much more than the other and has a larger impact that the other. You cannot win if one of your values is zero versus someone who has all other components, but if you have speed you can maybe eek out someone that is a bit stronger in other areas than you so long as that area is not speed.

If you don't agree with this I understand. It may not be where you are in the game, but if you are trying to get to top 20 in the arena it makes sense. If you are trying to be in the top 200 and not as focused on other aspects of the game like being a top 3 or even top 10 in raids in your guild then it is not as much of a factor. I don't mean this as an insult or talking down. I'm far from top 20 myself. I'd like to get there, but like it is for Ricky Bobby, speed is the answer.

It's only weighted so severely because you are over simplifying it.

Those factors would be different depending on the mod you are in.

In arena b, when specifically regarding the leader ability (a zeta) that could matter way more than an above average speed team.

And a being as simple as you state it could be g9-10?? And that will be made up by mods?

I'm sorry its just not that simple of an equation to =win.

You dont even try to account for team synergy and turn order, which again can play a big part in certain game mods.

Except.. im top 10 daily due to speed vs g12s with my g10s.. even if im only 1 point faster.. mods are the deal breaker. If i can get my vader to hit four times before you go.. i win hands down.

I'll like to see you do that vs a slower rex lead team.

I beat a rex lead daily mate.. its not like hes unique, hes all about tenacity, but if he cannot put it up because hes slow then gg?

i'm not saying rex leads are unbeatable, i'm saying you can't get your vader to go four times before the enemy team gets a turn. It's not just the tenacity, it's also the TM gain for all allies on crits. Combine those two and a slower (less speed on mods aswell as less speed in general) rex team can beat vader teams on offence. Making mods NOT the true meta.

Yes a rex team can beat a sith team with vader, but if they have speed out the wazoo then vader goes first, then culling blade then if he has DN sped up (which he would as a speed focused team) there go your abilities followed by a fracturing of rex who then can't cleanse your team or if you have GK then no worries. They're no longer taunting due to fracture and rex hasn't popped tenacity up yet because it's the sith team's turn still and there goes good old EP with some stuns (admittedly RNG based) but now it's maybe your team's turn. Those who aren't stunned or fractured who by the way can't use an ability yet due to DN who is coming for you shortly. Vadar doens't get in 4 turns before you, but it's not him you need to worry about. His team gets in 4 turns before you do.

Sure a rex lead can beat a sith team, but guess what they need to do it? Speed. Maybe Zadar get's his cull off, but if you've maxed speed out on a few you still may get a turn in before DN or EP, but not if you don't have speed. Good old smexxy rexy is sitting high in our arena right now, but I'll give you 3 guess as to what is maxed out on all members of that team and your first two guess don't count.

"MntMan;c-1545981" wrote:
Good old smexxy rexy is sitting high in our arena right now, but I'll give you 3 guess as to what is maxed out on all members of that team and your first two guess don't count.

No one is saying that speed isn't the best stat to increase with mods, mainly because it is. Generally speaking more speed is better. Same goes for stars and gear though, so none of them seperately are "the true meta".

Of course speed plays a major roll in the entire game. The devs even use speed to counter players. TB is nothing but a speed competition with npc troops that go every other player turn or have bonus turns added on with ungodly synergy. The only way to counter TW is with speed secondaries on mods for the entire roster. Mythic events are all about the speed secondary. It’s all about having the right speed secondaries on the correct toon to grant TM with every hit or crit and it’s over.

There is no good system for mods. Diablo, WOW, SWTOR, all the mods are cookie cutter. This game is pretty cookie cutter as well. The difference is the RNG required to boost mods can render a +4 speed mod near worthless if the speed stat does not get boosted. After a year of playing I have yet to see a single speed secondary mod raised above +15 yet other in my shard are rocking +20 speed secondaries and higher in all 5 mod slots on all 5 Arena members.

"Sacull_Kinslayer;c-1545896" wrote:
Honestly, in my opinion, unregulated mods are something that hurt this game and the balance of this game almost more than anything else. And one of the worst decisions period. I have good speed secondary mods so not complaining that I don't have them, cause I do. I'm stating that because it's true. Unregulated, uncapped speed secondary mods made the arena more about who has the best mods rather than the best squad composition or strategy. With all other things equal mods are not equal. Not to mention (except in rare circumstances) if a mod doesn't have a speed secondary it is mostly useless. Making the majority of mods useless and completely negating what could have been a strategic strong point of this game... Mod choice. As it is... There is none. The choice, as it is, is speed and speed alone.

And if they continue to be unregulated then 6 & 7 star mods will exacerbate the situation.

So much this. The most telling statement I ever heard proving mods weren't well thought out was "we never thought people would want to swap mods", but when they were released, there was a progression built into acquiring the best mods. What was the player base supposed to do? Keep 1 and 2 dot mods on their arena toons or keep them unmodded until 5 dot was unlocked?

Plus, with the inevitable power creep, the only differentiating feature is speed. A mod with a secondary of +2000 protection is fractionally better than a mod with +1000 protection. But a mod with a speed secondary of +20 is magnitudes stronger than a mod with +10.

And yes, I understand that not all toons require speed secondaries to be effective (baze, shore, Sith trooper, etc), but it certainly never hurts.

"leef;c-1545975" wrote:

"Cyggy;c-1545973" wrote:

"leef;c-1545971" wrote:

"Cyggy;c-1545961" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1545883" wrote:

"MntMan;c-1545879" wrote:
Yes but if gear = a, abilities = b, speed mods are c (not just regular mods, but speed focused primaries and secondaries) and all the other mods are d then the equation is a2 + b2 + c + d2 = Win.

That's the issue. One is weighted much more than the other and has a larger impact that the other. You cannot win if one of your values is zero versus someone who has all other components, but if you have speed you can maybe eek out someone that is a bit stronger in other areas than you so long as that area is not speed.

If you don't agree with this I understand. It may not be where you are in the game, but if you are trying to get to top 20 in the arena it makes sense. If you are trying to be in the top 200 and not as focused on other aspects of the game like being a top 3 or even top 10 in raids in your guild then it is not as much of a factor. I don't mean this as an insult or talking down. I'm far from top 20 myself. I'd like to get there, but like it is for Ricky Bobby, speed is the answer.

It's only weighted so severely because you are over simplifying it.

Those factors would be different depending on the mod you are in.

In arena b, when specifically regarding the leader ability (a zeta) that could matter way more than an above average speed team.

And a being as simple as you state it could be g9-10?? And that will be made up by mods?

I'm sorry its just not that simple of an equation to =win.

You dont even try to account for team synergy and turn order, which again can play a big part in certain game mods.

Except.. im top 10 daily due to speed vs g12s with my g10s.. even if im only 1 point faster.. mods are the deal breaker. If i can get my vader to hit four times before you go.. i win hands down.

I'll like to see you do that vs a slower rex lead team.

I beat a rex lead daily mate.. its not like hes unique, hes all about tenacity, but if he cannot put it up because hes slow then gg?

i'm not saying rex leads are unbeatable, i'm saying you can't get your vader to go four times before the enemy team gets a turn. It's not just the tenacity, it's also the TM gain for all allies on crits. Combine those two and a slower (less speed on mods aswell as less speed in general) rex team can beat vader teams on offence. Making mods NOT the true meta.

But they are mate.. everyone runs the same 3 to 5 teams, its mods that are the difference, your 5% tm to your team means squat when hes granting 20 to his and they all go first. If your modded for top speed then your following the true meta which is mods. Those suggesting cup etc are being outlandish.

"leef;c-1545985" wrote:

No one is saying that speed isn't the best stat to increase with mods, mainly because it is. Generally speaking more speed is better. Same goes for stars and gear though, so none of them seperately are "the true meta".

But you kind of are a little. I conceded your point a while back that other factors need to be considered. Team make-up being a big one. I whole heatedly believe that. If you're trying to go against a maxed NS squad with your maxed BH squad then good luck to you sir. You've bought a knife to a gun fight. (though maybe Bosk changes this example. Don't have him maxed so haven't been able to see). Anyways.

But as was pointed out above we're not talking about random match ups. We're talking top of area, TW, TB, Heroic Sith type stuff. If you go up against a good squad with and you have a poorly made up team of the same level and gear then you have no chance. No one in the top 50 or so in the arena is doing this. They see the team ahead of them, they change their squad, re-mod for speed and go.

What I'm saying is speed is a slightly bigger factor and it's proven by Cyggy. His g10 team beats out g12 teams at the top of the arena. This means people changing team compositions to meet and fight another team. Not just lazy slamming a round peg in a square hole. Not at that level in the arena it doesn't happen.

So in his case poor gear is mitigated by better speed. However because he is beating out g12s that have less speed than his g10 you can also conclude that poor speed cannot be made up for with better gear. Again oversimplifying yes, but if that is the case then so long as you are dealing with people who understand team make up and strategy then more speed gives you more of an edge over anything else. Therefore it is a more influential factor in decisions. Only comparing apples to apples. Same skilled and SWGOH knowledgeable player with their 20-30 hero stable of 7 star g12s that they can pull from to outwit an opponents team will consistently beat out other players with the same skill, knowledge and stable but fewer speed mods. Let that second player have the best protection, health, crit damage and crit chance mods. The first one with speed will win. Hands down.

What you gain in stars, level, and gear is fixed. What you gain in mods is all RNG. Mods are what make the difference, there's no getting around it. And this game is all about RNG.