"sevenmelons;231471" wrote:
"Zekex;231446" wrote:
"sevenmelons;231354" wrote:
"Zekex;231294" wrote:
"sevenmelons;231269" wrote:
Theres only 3 Dookus in our top 100. Highest is rank 23 (unless i switch to dooku then its rank 1). I used him for 1 week last week and I dont find his Dodge OP. All chars/abilities maxed. It differs from shard to shard.
So what? I've beat it with the usual speed dps team but I still find the dodges+ offense up combo way too OP. There were at least 10 dodges in my game and it's a miracle I survived because of poor ai targetting and RG.
It's simple maths, the more people you have on dooku's team the higher the probability of getting dodges, the longer the battle lasts the higher the probabillity of getting dodges. And to add insult to injury, they add an offense up boost to whoever dodges.
Now think about dooku with offense up, chance of attacking multiple times on his turn, chance of critting multiple times with each attack with offense up,not to mention the increased chance of having at least 1 critical by virtue of attacking multiple times.
Wait, that isn't all. What about other high dps characters getting offense up just by dodging?
I don't know what you mean by OP, but OP in my book is something that is either way too strong compared to other abilities, requires way too much rng to defeat, or requires a very specific combination to beat while beating most other combinations.
dooku's abilities falls under way too strong and way too much rng.
Please do not forget that ai is getting a buff next patch. I'm not sure if the devs can program the ai to use the right abilities on the right targets at the right time, but I'm sure it's an easy thing to do to make characters focus fire.
QGJs ability is still better. I find Dookus Lead ability on level w/ phasmas, if not a little higher. But definitley not better than QGJs in this current meta.
Dookus lead ability is too RNG dependent. One match I had I took 0 damage and wiped opposing team easily. Next match i lost because the dodge happened once in the entire game, near the end when i had 2 left. I had Lumi and Sid in my party so its dodge over dodge. Im ranked 1 or 2 every payout and placing dooku lead doesnt change much, as I still get knocked out easy everytime.
You're talking about consistency vs potency in the QGJ vs dooku lead debate. Neither of which is arguing for or against a nerf to dooku's leadership ability.
The match where you took 0 damage is an indication of how strong the dodges+ offense up is if procced. The game should never make it such that you are at the mercy of RNG. Once you make the game too rng based, there is ZERO need for strategy.
If a character's ability is too strong, you can ability block or stun the character. But if dodge is too high, what can you really do? That is the reason why dodge should never be high in turn based games, and should never be accompanied by offense up.
And as you kindly pointed out, what happens when a dodge leadership skill stacks with other evasion buffs or passives?don't you think it's way too high?
15% may not seem much, but when you have multiple rounds, the chance of getting at least one dodge increases.If you dodge a basic attack you survive for one more round and get one more shot at dodging again. If you dodge a special ability your battles drag a lot longer too. Basically any dodge will lengthen the battle, give the dodging team one free pass at the opposing team with offense up, has no cooldown, works great with any taunt tank like RG or any RNG based character like daka. Now do this with all characters and multiple rounds and the chance of dodging is definitely more than 15%.
Dropping ranks with dooku lead isn't evidence that dooku leadership isn't OP! Just to give an example, someone defends 999/1000 times and drops ranks the one time he was defeated. By your standard of OP the combination certainly isn't OP because he drop ranks. Dropping ranks cannot determine whether a character or ability is OP.
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And as you kindly pointed out, what happens when a dodge leadership skill stacks with other evasion buffs or passives?don't you think it's way too high?"
Its same thing happens when Phasma calls an assists on rey or FOTP, the results are too good.
What made you think his Lead ability is OP? You not beating the team easily?
His lead ability is good, if its too good then it should be dooku on all top 10s on all servers (like QGJs).
I faced a dooku team last week twice but it didnt pose that of a challenge. His team dodges alot but still could be beaten easily.
Im actually surprised there are servers where 90% of top 10s are dookus, because when you read some of the posts here QGJs are still majority. No dooku in my top 10.
Its actually nice he has a good Leader ability, w/c adds a variation to the current meta where QGJ dominates.
As this thread is about dooku, I would refrain from derailing the topic to something that isn't about dooku's leadership. Yes I think that 30% chance to assist is too much, and while it's currently overshadowed by the meta, it may be potentially troubling when the new update with fortitude and balance changes come up. There are other potential problems such as phasma's victory march and poggle's offense up, along with many other OP abilities that could find their way into the meta once teams start surviving the first round. I'm not going into more details since this is a dooku thread.
I've offered multiple reasons why the leadership ability is OP. It is somewhere in the thread you quoted, but I am quite certain you did not read it.
Here's what you're telling me. A character is OP if and only if 90% of the leaderboard is led by that character.Your leaderboard is not 90% dooku. Conclusion: dooku is not overpowered.
Leadership ability is not the sole determining factor for the composition of the leaderboard.Besides, leadership ability, there are also other factors like team composition,rng, activity of the players,willingness to spend gems to refresh,player decision making ability etc which contribute to the makeup of the leadership board. Attributing the success of a squad solely to leadership ability and then inferring the OPness of a character based on that detail is logically flawed and unsound.
Never confuse popularity of leader with OPness. It isn't a logical argument.
"sevenmelons;231481" wrote:
Maybe if hes as OP as you guys think he is, the best way to fix his lead ability is to let it affect only non-jedis, and half amount for jedis. Just like lumi lead but in reverse!
The % is still broken, and the combination with offense up is still too strong. Devs need to lower dodge %, remove or reduce the offense boost from dodging, cap the number of dodges per round/character/etc, do a combination of all 4 or do something else that's totally different but solves the issue
Capital Games Team
