Smuggler’s Run: Han doesn’t shoot first! Say what?!

@cannonfodder_iv

...or you could explain the inconsistency between the description of Han's shoot first and GMY's masterstroke. Similar descriptions — different behaviour.

"Waqui;c-1649607" wrote:

"Vampire_X;c-1649525" wrote:
The theorycrafting guild is strong in this thread ;)

But events also do not “have” to follow standard “kit” rules but very noted to the thoughts here

Also big thanks to Kyno as always trying to give community logical background info. Appreciate the respectful disagreements.

If taking a bonus turn means gaining 100% TM (Han's shoot first), then gaining an immediate bonus turn (GMY's Masterstroke) would indicate gaining 100% turn meter immediately. Only it doesn't. According to Kyno, GMY also bypasses all coin flips.

I don't see any logical background (your words) here. Kyno fails to explain the logic behind the wording in the ability descriptions. Maybe you could help him help us all?

Yes, he describes the behaviour of the two abilitirs well. No problem there.

The only instance anyone has shown of GMY not avoiding the coin toss, is in an event. While this is odd, we do know that event kits are modified to make the event different and more difficult.

as you can see in the above post, there is no wording in the description that says he should use his ability before anyone else, or avoid the coin toss in any way. he gets "a bonus turn" at the start of the encounter. saying my argument is flawed and showing it are 2 different things. Why would he avoid normal game mechanics?

"Kyno;c-1647926" wrote:

"Ztyle;c-1647922" wrote:
Say that to GMY and his new immediate bonus turn, witch show it's possible to avoid the TM raffle
I know he is working on TM, as when he got that skill, it didn't matter as he would always go first and it was most likely the easiest way to code it, But with all that stuff that has happened in the game since, the title of the skill is somewhat getting more and more a false statement
as it stands now it's not a bug, but an outdated mechanic that might needs to be looked at

Correct it can be, when it is stated as such in the description. There is no such statements in Hans ability description.

Even GMY works on TM, he is just not subject to the coin toss of multiple toons.

This TM rule is true even for GMY. I have had another toon, either on my team or the opposing team, take a turn between his Masterstroke and taking his immediate bonus turn. I just figured this was RNG between him and someone else at 100% TM. Masterstroke just gives him 100% TM.

"Kyno;c-1647628" wrote:

"SnakesOnAPlane;c-1647601" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1647578" wrote:
Correct he doesnt shoot first, but he does get his bonus turn, as described by his ability.

The ability name says “Shoots first” and it says “...bonus turn at the start...”. The name and the “at the start” implies he’s first. In this case he doesn’t shoot first nor when he goes is it “at the start”. One can argue against WAI quite easily in this case.

He gets the bonus turn at the beginning of the match. A turn in this game is denoted by 100% TM. The name is a title and not a description of how the ability will work, that's what the description is for.

As always when multiple toons have 100% TM, there is no guarantee who will go first, although I suspect when event toons have this coded they will go before our side, but still in an order determined by RNG.

Thats not what the words mean though and thats what sets my expectation when i invest a zeta. If i have 100 turn meter on an ability titled shoots first... i expect to shoot first. I only expect to be beaten by another han with the same speed as me and the zeta when its a coin toss.

I do not expect to be beaten by random troopers.

It may be a symantics game, but its not whay i would expect when placing raid han in and that makes it look broken

"Waqui;c-1649639" wrote:
@cannonfodder_iv

...or you could explain the inconsistency between the description of Han's shoot first and GMY's masterstroke. Similar descriptions — different behaviour.

@Waqui You are right, my apologies for including you in my joke.

I find the wording to be suitable to describe the skill. To your point regarding GMY's Masterstroke, the word "immediate" is missing from Han's description, but is present in GMY's. Clearly, they cannot guarantee the "immediacy" at the "Start" of the battle, as there may be an opposing Raid Han which could prevent that action from being taken "immediately". (Although, I suppose they could if they allowed your Raid Han to go even if enemy Raid Han chose to stun yours). I find your argument well thought through, as is typical of your contributions to the forum.

I would find it challenging to define all of the potential subtleties of a skill without hiring a lawyer, and it's a game after all. We wouldn't want skill descriptions of the sort:

WHEREAS The "Encounter" has "Started" WHEREAS "Encounter" is defined as an arena match, a Territory War match, or a phase in a multi-phase PVE encounter WHEREAS "Started" is defined as the characters having been placed on the field of battle with the battle timer set to 0 SUCH THAT No Turn Meter has been calculated using characters speed or Turn Meter gain attributes EXCEPTING Any character with a Bonus Turn attribute granted by either a Unique ability or an allied leadership ability EXCEPTING Any prior Turn Meter carried over from prior waves where applicable THEN Han gets to take a Bonus Turn WHEREAS Han gets to ignore taunt, can use only his basic ability SUCH THAT said basic ability will stun the target for one turn WHEREAS that stun cannot be resisted.

There was something wrong. I understand the turn meter thing but if my 1st turn with Han truly was the bonus turn, why did I have the option to use any of his 3 abilities instead of just the basic and why didn’t it stun if i did use the basic? I know it had to be the “bonus” turn because I could ignore taunt. Something buggy for sure

"BubbaFett;c-1649663" wrote:
Does the race start when the pistol goes off or after four other runners leave the blocks? If the ability stated "gains 100% turn meter" I would completely agree, but that's not what it says....

@BubbaFett Great point! When a marathon starts and you're guaranteed to be at the front of the line, aren't there other people right alongside you? Who gets to "go first" there?

"ShaggyB;c-1649658" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1647628" wrote:

"SnakesOnAPlane;c-1647601" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1647578" wrote:
Correct he doesnt shoot first, but he does get his bonus turn, as described by his ability.

The ability name says “Shoots first” and it says “...bonus turn at the start...”. The name and the “at the start” implies he’s first. In this case he doesn’t shoot first nor when he goes is it “at the start”. One can argue against WAI quite easily in this case.

He gets the bonus turn at the beginning of the match. A turn in this game is denoted by 100% TM. The name is a title and not a description of how the ability will work, that's what the description is for.

As always when multiple toons have 100% TM, there is no guarantee who will go first, although I suspect when event toons have this coded they will go before our side, but still in an order determined by RNG.

Thats not what the words mean though and thats what sets my expectation when i invest a zeta. If i have 100 turn meter on an ability titled shoots first... i expect to shoot first. I only expect to be beaten by another han with the same speed as me and the zeta when its a coin toss.

I do not expect to be beaten by random troopers.

It may be a symantics game, but its not whay i would expect when placing raid han in and that makes it look broken

@ShaggyB The zeta doesn't give him the Bonus Turn though? That's in the base skill. And why would you expect speed to come into play when it has no bearing on the game mechanic? These random troopers also get a Bonus Turn. They might have their own zeta. No biggie.

I wasnt gonna get back into this argument but ihave to , yall seem to forget thrawn , who like gmy was changed.


Says nothing about immediate or going next , its implied. How is that different than han. Again its not a gamebreaking issue , but it is misleading

"Boov;c-1649722" wrote:

"Waqui;c-1649587" wrote:

"Boov;c-1649376" wrote:
Are you guys really that upset about han not shooting first now, after it has been like this for ages..
I love seeying everyone go in on kyno like this and him easily holding his own. Everyone seems to think he's against them when he's just clarifying something. It's quite entertaining.

You clearly missed my point. I fully support the way Han's ability works. My point is, that the description of the ability is ambiguous in its own, and when relating that description and the behavioyr it describes to the ones of GMY's special ability, there's a very clear inconsistency.

You can however easily define "immidate" as taking a turn directly after using Masterstroke without it becomming false.

Taking a turn is defined as receiving 100% TM. If in doubt just ask Kyno ;—). Hence taking an immediate turn translates into receiving 100% TM immediately.

The inconsistency is not in the 'at the start' part of the description of Han's ability. That part is irrelevant for this discussion.

Edited: The inconsistency is, that similar wording describe a simple 100% TM gain behaviour in one case, whereas in another case it describes a 100% TM gain and a bypass of coin flips as well.