Territory Wars Leaderboard

"Chewy_Johnson68;c-1408061" wrote:
I would argue that this is the first leaderboard to have meaning. You can’t just kick and replace low GP players to get highest GP in game. Can’t use alts to up your raid currency. To say that guilds in 100 mill to 140 mill range have an easy TW is ignorance. Congrats to all those on top of this leaderboard! You have proven your guilds strength and deserve the recognition.

While I complete agree with what you said, the complaint that I see as valid is the fact that the game mechanic of the TW is such that guilds on the very top of the scale will, most likely, end in a draw, awarding no leaderboard point to either guild. That is a problem, because the most likely outcome is that the most powerful guilds end up with 0 Leader Board points.

However, I also believe that ignoring past performance on the leader-board would also be a problem, you might as well just list guilds by their GP if they won their last TW.

"sloths19;c-1423697" wrote:


This is largely anecdotal thinking. Per CG, only 5% of TW's ended in a tie (I believe this was prior to the 2 most recent ones). Unfortunately both Reddit and the Forums perpetuate confirmation bias, with the same rings of people saying they tied and seeing others say the same. This game is played by hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of people across the globe. Just because there is a frenzy of posts about tying does not mean that it is the majority outcome. Most guilds do not tie.

I never said most guilds tie. Now, maybe the 125M number was a little low, the mechanism of a TW is that as you approach the top, ties become increasingly likely as the depth of both sides rosters increase and they're able to make more and more repeated attacks on a limited number of defenders, the probability of a tie increases. Even if only 5% of TWs end in a tie, if it's the same guilds over and over, it could be a problem - especially if you're in one of the guilds affected.

Looking at the current leader board, I suspect this is from someone who won this most recent TW but lost prior TWs and is complaining about the fact that their 1 win put them far behind other guilds that have strung together multiple wins but are actually much weaker then they are.

"sloths19;c-1423673" wrote:
@leef

Yes I did mean championship, thanks. I think most of the disagreement here might hinge on the word easier. No, it is not easier to win the championship as a championship caliber team. Fulham is having just as hard a time beating Derby as Man Utd has beating Chelsea. In fact, the teams that are beating teams easily in the championship typically end up getting promoted, where they will now be more evenly matched with teams closer to their skill level. Of course there are outliers, nothing is perfect and some teams will always be way better than other teams, but the system is created to maximize competitive matches. Easy and Hard are relative terms. It is easier for a Premier League caliber team to win in the championship and vice versa, but those are outliers. Your football team was an outlier, as were the team(s) who may not have won a single game. But the majority of teams fell in the middle, playing mostly competitive games. This is true across most sports. The Patriots can go 16-0 and the Browns can go 0-16, playing few competitive games each, but as long as a majority of the teams are edging out wins or losses and falling in the middle, then the system works. And that is exactly what happens.

It's easier to beat your peers in the championship because it requires less skill and/or less effort, just like it's easier to win for a 50m GP guild.
Sure, it's harder for a 50m GP guild to beat a 80m GP guild than it is for a 160m GP guild to beat a 80m GP guild. That doesn't change the fact that it's easier to win a TW when you're a 50m GP guild and get matched with other 50m GP guilds than it is for an equally matched 160m GP guild. I might be exxagurating, but just having all your member participate and have some sort of strategy is enough to win at the 50m GP range. It simply requires less skill and/or effort to outperform your peers in the lower GP brackets than in the higher GP brackets, that's what makes it easier. The 50m GP range is far more densely populated and with far more casual guilds.
you can argue that if you're battling a truly equal opponent that it doesn't matter in what GP range that TW takes place, and i fully agree. However, it's just easier to outperform your peers (GP wise) with a little dedication, effort and skill in the lower brackets than it is in the higher brackets, mainly because most of those guilds are dedicated, organized, skilled and willing to put in the effort, where as guild in the lower brackets not so much.
To get back to the football comparrison. In the division i played (really, really low) you could easily outperform your peers just by training on stamina alone. Having above average stamina wins you games in that division. Point being, with just a little bit of effort you could already outperform your peers. These small things that give you a competative advantage over your peers in the lower divisions are a necessity in the higher divisions.

The leaderboard do present those guilds with good strategy and cooperation. However, the most Important thing that matter is GP. I suggest the leaderboard should depend on different ranks of GP. For instance, less than 50M, 50-70M, 70-90M, 90- 100M, etc...
Simple example:
The GP of guild grows from 80M to 85M last month. We won 4 times. Their GP are 84M, 90M, 93M, 98M. We tied with two others. However, a guild with more than 150M, only need to win 3 times to get same amount of defeated GP. Not to mention the difficulty to win those guild has 10M GP than us.

@leef

Again, it is not easier to win for the teams involved in the championship because they are comparable in talent. You are right that there is less skill needed, but BOTH teams are in the same boat. If it were just easier to win, why aren't we seeing crazy high scores in these matches, reflective of bad teams with no organization or skill and rampant scoring on busted defenses? We aren't, because their skill levels match.

You're also assuming that in the case of 2, 50m GP guilds facing each other, all one needs to do is be organized and strategic and it should be a cakewalk because odds of getting matched with a disorganized guild are higher than for top guilds. Well, who's to say that the team in question CAN get organized and strategic? Maybe some members, sure, but that guild is low power for a reason and it's because a lot of members either aren't serious players or are newer players. I think your issue is that you keep putting yourself in the shoes of these guilds, when that is not applicable. Again there will always be outliers, but not many 50m GP Guilds have players that can strategize like a top guild. From a more philosophical perspective, let's say one of these guilds does cooperate efficiently and handily beat another low guild, but the other guild also tried their best to coordinate but simply doesn't have the resources, knowledge or communication to win? They tried their best but it was certainly not easy to win. They are a low GP guild for a reason, and it could be any of the reasons i just listed.

You are forgetting that there are wildly different types of people who play this game and join guilds. The ones that do "easily" beat their opposing guilds in 50m GP range deserve to win, and they as a guild are most likely progressing at a much faster rate than the opposing guilds and will soon be in the 60, 70 range, etc.

"leef;c-1424363" wrote:


Honestly, i'm not sure why you still keep saying it's just as difficult to win for any guild regardless of GP range, it simply isn't. Do you honestly think a 50m gp guild getting a 5 winstreak is just as impressive as a 140m GP guild getting a 5 winstreak? (obviously if they're matched with opponents with similar GP, and didnt have 5 mismatches (GP wise) in their favour)

In a way it is just as impressive. You’re argument is based on all variables being equal in the same way, but this is far from how this game plays out. In a 140m GP guild the match gets set with another 140m GP guild and both sides essentially know what they are going to see; maybe one guild has a few more wampas and the other has a few IPD’s, but there a relatively few surprises so it is a chess match. It takes a good strategy to win against a known opponent.

In a 50m GP guild (given both guilds are active and organized) those variables are totally unknown because the early game progression allows for a wider range of possible variances in team structure.

In high GP guilds the TW is a chess board with all the pieces being known and fairly equal, in a lower GP matchup one team might be playing with all rooks and pawns while the other may have all pawns and bishops, but in the lower GP they don’t know what the other players set is until the game starts.

I get that there are more variables in opponent strength and matchmaking so it is more likely a lower GP guild faces opponents that are easy, but to diminish their effort or skill based purely on GP is like saying rich people are better and smarter and therefore have it harder than poor people because that’s the natural order of things. It’s inherently false and petty.

"weldon08;c-1424409" wrote:

"leef;c-1424363" wrote:


Honestly, i'm not sure why you still keep saying it's just as difficult to win for any guild regardless of GP range, it simply isn't. Do you honestly think a 50m gp guild getting a 5 winstreak is just as impressive as a 140m GP guild getting a 5 winstreak? (obviously if they're matched with opponents with similar GP, and didnt have 5 mismatches (GP wise) in their favour)

In a way it is just as impressive. You’re argument is based on all variables being equal in the same way, but this is far from how this game plays out. In a 140m GP guild the match gets set with another 140m GP guild and both sides essentially know what they are going to see; maybe one guild has a few more wampas and the other has a few IPD’s, but there a relatively few surprises so it is a chess match. It takes a good strategy to win against a known opponent.

No, my argument is based on that only GP is equal, wich is exactly how it works. (unfortunately there are mismatches, wich is the reason why the leaderboard is pointless and skewed imo)

In a 50m GP guild (given both guilds are active and organized) those variables are totally unknown because the early game progression allows for a wider range of possible variances in team structure.

My argument is based on the fact that both are NOT just as active and organized, wich makes it easier for the active and organized guild to win.

I get that there are more variables in opponent strength and matchmaking so it is more likely a lower GP guild faces opponents that are easy, but to diminish their effort or skill based purely on GP is like saying rich people are better and smarter and therefore have it harder than poor people because that’s the natural order of things. It’s inherently false and petty.

i don't know how that's like saying that. Weird comparrison that makes it more complicated to understand than easier O_o

forum ate my comment again. i'll try to explain it for the last time.
With GP of both guilds playing vs eachother being equal, it takes less skill, organization, effort and dedication to win in the lower brackets than in the higher brackets, thus it's easier to win in the lower brackets.
That doesn't mean that when you're facing a truly equal guild, not just GP but the whole shebang, it's easier to win in the in the lower brackets than in the higher brackets, since you're truly equal. It is however easier to be or become better at all those non-GP related aspects that influence the outcome of the match when you're facing guilds that in general aren't really good at those aspects. Just because you're in the lower GP brackets doesn't automatically mean you're bad at those non-GP related aspects that influence the outcome of the match, but on average low GP guilds are worse in that regard than high GP guilds.

A lot of you folks need to learn how to make paragraphs.

^ that obviously doesn't mean it's easier for every guild in the lower brackets to win, but the guilds that do often win aren't necessarily better than guilds in the higher brackets that don't win very often. They might be, but there's no way of knowing since they're not facing the same level of competition.