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AbC8356a5175033's avatar
AbC8356a5175033
Seasoned Traveler
6 months ago

This feels familiar...

So for context: I played Marvel Strike Force until about 3 months ago. (Roughly, I can't remember the exact length of time since I freed myself from them.)

And funnily enough, one of the biggest factors in my decision to quit was the utter lack of fun involved in the "game".

Which was caused by, you guessed it, their "Relic Delta" system. (Named Overpower, for reference. Should've been called Overspend, frankly, but that's neither here nor there.) The system basically erased any remaining semblance of strategy from the game - not that there was much left given the dev team's changes to stats, but there was a modicum of skill involved in PvP.

After Overpower launched, the "game" became a question of "Do my team have higher Overpower numbers? Yes? Okay, I win." Or "No? Aw rats, well guess there's no point even trying."

Overpower actively caused me to play the game less, because there was no point in trying to punch up with skill and strategic team building. Relic Delta, or whatever you plan on calling it (in before CG literally calls it "Overpower" with zero critical thinking applied...) will do the same.

And if that isn't enough for you, then let's look at the numbers. Because luckily, we have data! Big thanks to Boilon for this btw, he tracked the number of active monthly MSF users based on leaderboard event data. To begin, I'll explain his methodology.

MSF has leaderboard events basically every day, and some of these have very simple requirements, such as using energy. So it's possible to do nothing in the event except 1 single battle to get on the leaderboard, right at the end of the event so you're as close to the bottom as possible.

This is the method used, as it allowed him to get a mostly accurate idea of how many players did the bare minimum for an event, and thus define a baseline for the number of active players. In the month that Overpower was announced and implemented (April 2025, it's not even been 6 months yet...) there were around 260000-270000 players iirc. Around the same time the previous year, the average active player count was about 350k.

Within 2 weeks of the Overpower system being added, around a further 50000 players had quit. Just under 20% of the active playerbase. Now you can argue there were other bullplop decisions made by Scopely during that time, in which case my response would be: Yes, and that compounded the problem.

And it only got worse over time, with iirc an average of somewhere around 10k players quitting monthly up until the point I also quit playing and stopped paying attention.

But we are now moving into October, basically 6 months from the introduction of Overpower to MSF, so if that average has held, then Scopely and MSF have lost somewhere around a third of their active playerbase since they added "Relic Delta" to their game.

At least 75 thousand players gone (conservative estimate), from all levels of the game, with several big whales and even krakens declaring that the fun wasn't there anymore and quitting. And that number could reach as high as 100k players quitting. With very little in the way of new players (and specifically new spenders) to replace them.

And as we move into October, what interesting little announcement came out through MobileGamer's channel about MSF following a meeting/communication with Scopely?

If you guessed "doubling down on Overpower"? My friend, you would be surprised at how wrong you are. They're putting it on pause, even as they release the next progression systems, for "internal reconsideration".

Or to put it another way, "this sucks, everyone hates us and we're haemorraghing money because of it, let's pause it for now then quietly kill it off for good in the background".

6 months, roughly 75-100k players lost, massive financial hits, and finally Scopely pull the plug on Overpower. Now we are in a more fortunate position with CG, because CG have proven in the past that they are willing to listen to the playerbase without it getting to that point.

So with that in mind, CG, do the smart thing. Send this bill to committee, so it never sees the light of day again.

If you want a freebie suggestion for a new progression system to make relics more impactful? (Rule 1, never criticise without being constructive about it.) Here's mine, I relinquish all rights to it:

Implement Relic Abilities, like you planned originally. Tie their unlock to R10, whales will spend and get an advantage that way, and F2P have something to work towards strategically.

Some of them don't even need to be that complex, I mean here's CAT's relic ability: "Ignores Instant Defeat Immunity." Nihilus' could be identical.

Short, simple, easy. Granted, the sheer number of characters in the game means you'd need a lot of abilities, but once the first wave are done then it's more manageable.

Heck, you could even break fleets more than they already are, and add ship relics if you really need some whale bait. But "Relic Delta" isn't the right move, and as a former MSF player I have the experience to back that claim up. That system is toxic and will cost you more in the long run than it generates in short term gains.

4 Replies

  • pdrodog21's avatar
    pdrodog21
    Seasoned Newcomer
    6 months ago

    Couldn’t agree more. Coming from someone who never thought he’d leave and is a whale in the game, I’m out if this is implemented. I left MSF and I’ll leave this game just as fast

  • AbC8356a5175033's avatar
    AbC8356a5175033
    Seasoned Traveler
    6 months ago

    The most interesting bit imo is that in MSF it had the opposite effect it was intended to. Over there it was meant to basically give the whales and krakens who'd spent tens or even hundreds of thousands on their rosters and innate advantage, an auto-win button basically.

    But then the majority of those same whales and krakens turned around and were like "Actually, this sucks now, there's no fun beating opponents who don't even try. And anyone who does try is usually on our level anyway so this doesn't give us any advantage over them."

    Godmode sounds fun on paper, sure, but if you actually try and play an entire game that way it quickly becomes dull, I've never been able to complete a playthrough of any game with an autowin option enabled because after the first five minutes it begins to feel like "Oh, well this is boring, I don't have to do anything. Why am I playing this?"

    Turns out the fun of games, especially games like this one, is actually the challenge, the theorycrafting, the skill. Choosing to substitute one character into a non-standard team comp for a synergy that lets that comp punch up against a specific opponent.

  • So I asked my AI why Marvel Strike Force isn't as popular now/in decline?  This is what it told me.

    "AI Overview

    Marvel Strike Force isn't as popular now due to a combination of factors, primarily the introduction of the 'Overpower' system, which is seen as detrimental by players, a perceived shift towards more predatory and 'greedy' monetisation practises, alongside issues like rapid release of new characters, a perceived scarcity of resources and a general decline in the player engagement and trust in the developers, Scopely.  The Overpower system in particular, is criticised for negatively impacting player experience by making content unfairly difficult and widening the gap between paying and free-to-play players."

    So, if Overpower destroyed the game closest to SWGOH and its market competitor.  On what planet is brining a replica system/mechanic to here a good idea?  I don't understand how that's even thought to be a practical idea.  How out of touch can you be?

  • Narrhofal's avatar
    Narrhofal
    Seasoned Newcomer
    6 months ago

    harvestmouse1​ Based on your AI Overview, I had to ask Gemini... 

    Gemini's answer to the question "What will happen if Capital Games implements Relic Delta in Star Wars Galaxy of Heroes?" :£

    Here is a breakdown of what would likely happen if Relic Delta is implemented:

    1. Massive Power Disparity and Erosion of Skill
    •  Damage Amplification: A character with a significantly higher Relic level (e.g., Relic 9) would deal drastically more damage to a lower-Relic character (e.g., Relic 5). Initial reports suggested a power difference of up to 95% more damage dealt and 95% less damage taken for the higher Relic team in extreme cases.
    •  The End of "Punch-Ups": The established meta of using superior strategy, team synergy, or excellent modding to defeat a higher-Gear/Relic team (a "punch-up") would largely disappear. Relic level would become the dominant factor in many battles.
    •  Invalidation of Rosters: Many players have strategically leveled certain teams only to the Relic level necessary for their function (e.g., R3 or R5 for key utility units). This entire portion of their roster would suddenly become nearly useless against higher-Relic opponents, essentially devaluing years of investment.
    2. Exacerbated Pay-to-Win (P2W) Mechanics
    •  Extreme Spend Incentive: The new system directly and heavily rewards players who have gone to Relic 8 and Relic 9 on a wide portion of their roster, which are the most expensive and time-consuming levels. This strongly incentivizes players, especially "whales" and "krakens," to spend massive amounts of money to achieve the highest Relic levels to secure a massive advantage.
    •  Widening the Gap: The already significant power gap between Free-to-Play (F2P)/Dolphin players and high-spending Whale/Kraken players would become nearly insurmountable in head-to-head modes like Grand Arena Championships (GAC) and Territory Wars (TW).
    3. Impact on Game Modes
    •  Grand Arena Championships (GAC): This mode would be the most heavily affected. Winning would rely far less on counter-picking and strategy and far more on who has the brute-force of higher Relic teams. Players who cannot afford to keep up may find the mode unplayable and stop competing
    •  Territory Wars (TW): The reliance on having a specific Relic level for a counter would add a new, frustrating barrier to entry for many guilds.
    •  PvE Content (Conquest, Assault Battles): While high-Relic players would find it easier to clear content by doing more damage, mid-game players who relied on R5 or R7 teams to clear the final tiers of Conquest may suddenly find it much harder, as their damage output is dramatically reduced.
    4. Community Backlash and Player Exodus
    •  Overwhelmingly Negative Sentiment: The initial reaction from the SWGoH community, including major content creators and long-time players, has been overwhelmingly negative.
    •  Threats to Quit: Many players, from moderate spenders to F2P, have publicly stated they would quit the game if Relic Delta is implemented in its initially proposed form because it devalues their time, effort, and strategic investment.

    In summary, if Capital Games proceeds with Relic Delta as first described, it would represent one of the most significant shifts in the game's combat mechanics, prioritizing raw Relic level investment over all other factors, which is widely seen as an attempt to drive maximum revenue at the expense of player base satisfaction and strategic gameplay depth.

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