TW Exploit

"snowhut;c-1418270" wrote:

"JoeSolo;c-1418192" wrote:
So your guild asks people to not register for TW’s? @snowhut

We just get volunteers. TW's are actually really poorly designed and boring. We have plenty of people that would just rather not do them and it actually guarantees us first place.

To be honest, i find that kinda suprising since the rewards (even when you lose) are quite usefull. Obviously you can rotate in order to get more rewards for each individual member, but judging by your comment you're not doing that (or you're trying to hide that you're doing that, i dunno).
Not sure either if you can call them boring if you're intentionally gaming the system in order to get easier wins. It looks like you're justifying your actions with an argument that is a direct result of said actions.
I'm not saying you should justify your actions, that's your own business, you can do whatever you like. I personally think it's rather lame, moreso because by doing so you're also influencing the other guild's experience negatively, but that's just my oppinion. To each their own i guess.
I feel the same way about forcing draws. My one hope is that guilds that intentionally bench players during TW face alot of guild that try force a draw. That way more guilds that just want to play TW "how it's meant to be played" face eachother instead of facing guilds that use those kind of strategies.

forum keeps eating my comment..

"snowhut;c-1418270" wrote:

"JoeSolo;c-1418192" wrote:
So your guild asks people to not register for TW’s? @snowhut

We just get volunteers. TW's are actually really poorly designed and boring. We have plenty of people that would just rather not do them and it actually guarantees us first place.

To be honest, i find that kinda suprising since the rewards (even when you lose) are quite usefull. Obviously you can rotate in order to get more rewards for each individual member, but judging by your comment you're not doing that (or you're trying to hide that you're doing that, i dunno).
Not sure either if you can call them boring if you're intentionally gaming the system in order to get easier wins. It looks like you're justifying your actions with an argument that is a direct result of said actions.
I'm not saying you should justify your actions, that's your own business, you can do whatever you like. I personally think it's rather lame, moreso because by doing so you're also influencing the other guild's experience negatively, but that's just my oppinion. To each their own i guess.
I feel the same way about forcing draws. My one hope is that guilds that intentionally bench players during TW face alot of guild that try force a draw. That way more guilds that just want to play TW "how it's meant to be played" face eachother instead of facing guilds that use those kind of strategies.

"leef;c-1418281" wrote:
forum keeps eating my comment..

"snowhut;c-1418270" wrote:

"JoeSolo;c-1418192" wrote:
So your guild asks people to not register for TW’s? @snowhut

We just get volunteers. TW's are actually really poorly designed and boring. We have plenty of people that would just rather not do them and it actually guarantees us first place.

To be honest, i find that kinda suprising since the rewards (even when you lose) are quite usefull. Obviously you can rotate in order to get more rewards for each individual member, but judging by your comment you're not doing that (or you're trying to hide that you're doing that, i dunno).
Not sure either if you can call them boring if you're intentionally gaming the system in order to get easier wins. It looks like you're justifying your actions with an argument that is a direct result of said actions.
I'm not saying you should justify your actions, that's your own business, you can do whatever you like. I personally think it's rather lame, moreso because by doing so you're also influencing the other guild's experience negatively, but that's just my oppinion. To each their own i guess.
I feel the same way about forcing draws. My one hope is that guilds that intentionally bench players during TW face alot of guild that try force a draw. That way more guilds that just want to play TW "how it's meant to be played" face eachother instead of facing guilds that use those kind of strategies.

I'm not justifying. TW became predictable after the first iteration, now, rather than going through the added effort of forcing everyone to participate, we accept a few volunteers who would like to sit out. It's still predictable and boring, but, in the end, it's quicker, the variety of opponent teams is much greater, and it's just 50 people working together to guarantee top payout for those that care. Not much unlike the other competitive portion of the game.

"snowhut;c-1418286" wrote:

"leef;c-1418281" wrote:
forum keeps eating my comment..

"snowhut;c-1418270" wrote:

"JoeSolo;c-1418192" wrote:
So your guild asks people to not register for TW’s? @snowhut

We just get volunteers. TW's are actually really poorly designed and boring. We have plenty of people that would just rather not do them and it actually guarantees us first place.

To be honest, i find that kinda suprising since the rewards (even when you lose) are quite usefull. Obviously you can rotate in order to get more rewards for each individual member, but judging by your comment you're not doing that (or you're trying to hide that you're doing that, i dunno).
Not sure either if you can call them boring if you're intentionally gaming the system in order to get easier wins. It looks like you're justifying your actions with an argument that is a direct result of said actions.
I'm not saying you should justify your actions, that's your own business, you can do whatever you like. I personally think it's rather lame, moreso because by doing so you're also influencing the other guild's experience negatively, but that's just my oppinion. To each their own i guess.
I feel the same way about forcing draws. My one hope is that guilds that intentionally bench players during TW face alot of guild that try force a draw. That way more guilds that just want to play TW "how it's meant to be played" face eachother instead of facing guilds that use those kind of strategies.

I'm not justifying. TW became predictable after the first iteration, now, rather than going through the added effort of forcing everyone to participate, we accept a few volunteers who would like to sit out. It's still predictable and boring, but, in the end, it's quicker, the variety of opponent teams is much greater, and it's just 50 people working together to guarantee top payout for those that care. Not much unlike the other competitive portion of the game.

No offense and i'm not trying to troll you, but it still looks like you're justifying it.
Anyway, like i said, i hope guilds that aren't using the flaws in the design to their benefit are facing eachother so that they can enjoy TW instead of getting owned by guilds that intentionally bench players or face guilds that intentionlly set a very weak defence to force a draw.

"leef;c-1418292" wrote:

"snowhut;c-1418286" wrote:

"leef;c-1418281" wrote:
forum keeps eating my comment..

"snowhut;c-1418270" wrote:

"JoeSolo;c-1418192" wrote:
So your guild asks people to not register for TW’s? @snowhut

We just get volunteers. TW's are actually really poorly designed and boring. We have plenty of people that would just rather not do them and it actually guarantees us first place.

To be honest, i find that kinda suprising since the rewards (even when you lose) are quite usefull. Obviously you can rotate in order to get more rewards for each individual member, but judging by your comment you're not doing that (or you're trying to hide that you're doing that, i dunno).
Not sure either if you can call them boring if you're intentionally gaming the system in order to get easier wins. It looks like you're justifying your actions with an argument that is a direct result of said actions.
I'm not saying you should justify your actions, that's your own business, you can do whatever you like. I personally think it's rather lame, moreso because by doing so you're also influencing the other guild's experience negatively, but that's just my oppinion. To each their own i guess.
I feel the same way about forcing draws. My one hope is that guilds that intentionally bench players during TW face alot of guild that try force a draw. That way more guilds that just want to play TW "how it's meant to be played" face eachother instead of facing guilds that use those kind of strategies.

I'm not justifying. TW became predictable after the first iteration, now, rather than going through the added effort of forcing everyone to participate, we accept a few volunteers who would like to sit out. It's still predictable and boring, but, in the end, it's quicker, the variety of opponent teams is much greater, and it's just 50 people working together to guarantee top payout for those that care. Not much unlike the other competitive portion of the game.

No offense and i'm not trying to troll you, but it still looks like you're justifying it.
Anyway, like i said, i hope guilds that aren't using the flaws in the design to their benefit are facing eachother so that they can enjoy TW instead of getting owned by guilds that intentionally bench players or face guilds that intentionlly set a very weak defence to force a draw.

Should we instead force those that don't want to participate to register for the sake of not wanting to hurt another guild's feelings? We did that for the first 2 TWs, it turns out it's just not worth it. This approach is a result of the flawed design, the same way arena payout schemes are a result of the flaws in the arena's design, nothing more. If they revisit the way this works, fine, we won't complain at all, but until then, sorry, we have people that don't want to participate in TW and it's going to guarantee us wins.

We went up against a guild that was known to do this so we trolled them. We tanked defense with 30k power teams to guarantee a tie. Basically took them down with us.

The thing is though I’m not convinced that this method being discussed is an effective tactic anyway at higher levels (I understand how it is at lower levels). At our level (125 mil GP) everyone has maxed teams already. A 140 mil GP just have more of them. But if they drop down they might actually have fewer meta teams. For example, if they drop down 6 players we might have 50 meta resistance teams where they now have 44.

I’m not saying this as fact, I’m just saying none of us have enough data to really say which is more advantageous. I’m sure the developers have this data, and probably know the percentage of time a guild with fewer players wins. I wish I could see this.

And as for a “fix”, I think we just need to get rid of the registration period. I think it’s silly. Getting everyone registered is a chore in inself. You would think it would be easy, but we’ve had someone missing in about half of ours, even though they were online and got their 600 done.

"snowhut;c-1418310" wrote:

"leef;c-1418292" wrote:

"snowhut;c-1418286" wrote:

"leef;c-1418281" wrote:
forum keeps eating my comment..

"snowhut;c-1418270" wrote:

"JoeSolo;c-1418192" wrote:
So your guild asks people to not register for TW’s? @snowhut

We just get volunteers. TW's are actually really poorly designed and boring. We have plenty of people that would just rather not do them and it actually guarantees us first place.

To be honest, i find that kinda suprising since the rewards (even when you lose) are quite usefull. Obviously you can rotate in order to get more rewards for each individual member, but judging by your comment you're not doing that (or you're trying to hide that you're doing that, i dunno).
Not sure either if you can call them boring if you're intentionally gaming the system in order to get easier wins. It looks like you're justifying your actions with an argument that is a direct result of said actions.
I'm not saying you should justify your actions, that's your own business, you can do whatever you like. I personally think it's rather lame, moreso because by doing so you're also influencing the other guild's experience negatively, but that's just my oppinion. To each their own i guess.
I feel the same way about forcing draws. My one hope is that guilds that intentionally bench players during TW face alot of guild that try force a draw. That way more guilds that just want to play TW "how it's meant to be played" face eachother instead of facing guilds that use those kind of strategies.

I'm not justifying. TW became predictable after the first iteration, now, rather than going through the added effort of forcing everyone to participate, we accept a few volunteers who would like to sit out. It's still predictable and boring, but, in the end, it's quicker, the variety of opponent teams is much greater, and it's just 50 people working together to guarantee top payout for those that care. Not much unlike the other competitive portion of the game.

No offense and i'm not trying to troll you, but it still looks like you're justifying it.
Anyway, like i said, i hope guilds that aren't using the flaws in the design to their benefit are facing eachother so that they can enjoy TW instead of getting owned by guilds that intentionally bench players or face guilds that intentionlly set a very weak defence to force a draw.

Should we instead force those that don't want to participate to register for the sake of not wanting to hurt another guild's feelings? We did that for the first 2 TWs, it turns out it's just not worth it. This approach is a result of the flawed design, the same way arena payout schemes are a result of the flaws in the arena's design, nothing more. If they revisit the way this works, fine, we won't complain at all, but until then, sorry, we have people that don't want to participate in TW and it's going to guarantee us wins.

Who said anything about hurt feelings, or forcing members to participate for that matter?
I'm not interrested in finding something to blame, or the reasons why guilds take this approach (intentionally gaming to system to ensure a win). I just hope the rest of the guilds that are not using those strategies will face eachother so that they can enjoy TW.
The arena shard chats are a slightly different issue, idealy it's beneficial for everyone. I also hope that shard chats that are actively trying to prevent others from getting top ranks get a taste of their own medicine.

My guild is feeling the effects of this. We have 50/50 participation as a 60M guild and have been routinely matched up against 42ish members of a 100M guild and get annihilated.

Total GP in the war might seem like a balanced way of handling it, but the reality is that a single 2M Power person can easily defeat the best teams of 3 or more 1M Power people both because their top toons are much stronger and thus take multiple teams from the lower power group to take out, but also because they have a much deeper bench of really valuable characters to use.

Hopefully someone in the dev team is looking at the results of these TWs and realizing that this is not at all balanced.

For me - the stakes are so low in Tb. We let our members devise strategies each time. It’s been really fun for us and more well received than the tbs. different strokes different folks for sure.
To the poster that said that this “exploit” hurts them because they are in the bracket of losing = no zeta. That won’t be forever. GP continues to grow. I know that doesn’t do anything to ease frustration now but at least there is a light at the end of the tunnel.