Is Stun Broken?

"Liath;c-1755674" wrote:

"UlicQ;c-1755668" wrote:

"Liath;c-1755656" wrote:

"UlicQ;c-1755652" wrote:

"Liath;c-1755648" wrote:

"UlicQ;c-1755647" wrote:

"Vos_Landeck;c-1755632" wrote:

"UlicQ;d-193364" wrote:
I don’t know if this is a “known issue” or if there’s a mechanic that I’m missing, but I keep seeing toons shrug off stun and then act.

In my last battle, every time I stunned Traya she would come out of stun and instantly have 100% turn meter and take her action as is she hadn’t been stunned. Every time.

Was there a Thrawn present using his special ability on her? If Thrawn was on that team, his special can cleanse her debuff and swap his TM with hers.

No, it was 4 v 1, Traya alone. She was stunned. When her TM hit 100% and the stun ended, her TM filled to 100% again and she took a turn.

It didn’t fill to 100% again, it never left 100% because she hadn’t finished her turn yet. This has already been answered. Sorry you don’t like the answer but that’s how it works.

Just because you answered my question, it doesn’t mean your answer is correct.

Your answer includes the words “hadn’t finished her turn yet” but by definition when stunned she doesn’t get a turn. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.

Based on both powers descriptions, she shouldn’t get a turn.

Sure, it’s far more likely that the way you want the game to work is correct despite the fact that it has never worked that way. There is no mechanic that treats stun the way you want it to be treated.

Another example: Boba’s contract. It applies to the first enemy that takes a turn. If the first enemy to reach 100% TM is stunned and thus doesn’t do anything, that still counts as the first enemy to take a turn for purposes of the contract.

Not sure why my original reply disappeared. Anyway roughly what I said:

I'm not trying to be rude, but the way I've described stun is the way it's worked for as long as I can remember. How does stun work when you use it on a character? Do they not miss their next turn? Because they should.

And I'd argue that if it's working the way you describe on Boba's contract (I've never tested that), the mechanic should be fixed there as well. Either that or the definition of what stun is supposed to do needs to be changed.

I have no idea in what circumstances you believe it used to work that way.

Here’s another example: Krennic can stun for 2 turns. If being stunned means you don’t get a turn, how can that stun ever end?

It works that way in every circumstance other than when fighting Traya (apparently) - see my post below, I just tested it and it works exactly as I've described.

As for Krennic, that' easy. After the character MISSES 2 turns they get to act.

"Legend91;c-1755734" wrote:

"UlicQ;c-1755719" wrote:

"Sarith_LeKit;c-1755669" wrote:

"UlicQ;c-1755666" wrote:
And as for the comments about Fulcrum and L3, those are entirely different mechanics at work. L3 dispels someone when she's damaged, so it doesn't require a turn, so it would make sense that she could dispel it on herself if she was stunned and then took damage. And Fulcrum (Ahsoka) dispels debuffs on herslf at the end of "each" turn, i.e. anyone's turn not her own. So it makes sense for her to shrug stun off as soon as she's hit with it, as her dispel would fire when the attacker who stunned her ends their turn.

The issue with Traya's ability as it's described as she (or any sith) to have an action for the dispel to cleanse them, but the stun "should" negate that turn.

As I said, if this is working as intended it should be reworded to say all Sith are immune to stun because that's basically what's happening.

Firstly, your definition of stun is wrong. Basiclly what happens when you are stunned, your character loses 100% of its turn meter at start of its turn (which is why they still get their cooldowns reduced by turn and with your definition that shouldnt happen). Now this game and alot of other games have somthing called order of actions. And traya's cleanse have a priority on stun which means that first her cleanse do its thing then stun do its thing but since cleanse removes stun nothing happens. I hope I helped

My definition of stun is straight from how it's described in the game:

SWGOH: Debuff: Stun: Character misses a turn and cannot avoid attacks.

Here's a complete buff/debuff list if you want to look for yourself: https://gaming-fans.com/star-wars-goh/swgoh-resources/buffs-debuffs-list/

Furthermore, after reading your reply I tested it on another team and never once did a character lose ANY turn meter when stun was applied. After being stunned, they retained all turn meter and continued gaining turn meter until they reached 100% at which time, they were NOT allowed to act and their turn meter was instantly reduced to 0%. If what you describe is happening when you use stun I'd love to see a video of it, because I have NEVER seen stun work the way you describe it.

Also, I agree 100% with the order of operations argument, unfortunately when looking at the order of operations logically, one has to have a turn in order to gain any benefits from that turn, but if a character is supposed to miss their turn, the order should be for them to miss their turn above all else (unless otherwise described - which it is not in this case).

If you would've read his post carefully you'd realize he wrote " your characters loses 100% of its turn meter at start of its turn".

You are 100% right, that was my bad. Apologies. But that is not how the game describes how stun is supposed to work. The turn should be missed, which also should be the first operation in the order of operation. Otherwise as I originally stated, the ability should state Sith are Immune to Stun, because as it's working they can NOT be stunned. This is very different than dispelling a regular debuff.

"UlicQ;c-1755726" wrote:

"Liath;c-1755674" wrote:

"UlicQ;c-1755668" wrote:

"Liath;c-1755656" wrote:

"UlicQ;c-1755652" wrote:

"Liath;c-1755648" wrote:

"UlicQ;c-1755647" wrote:

"Vos_Landeck;c-1755632" wrote:

"UlicQ;d-193364" wrote:
I don’t know if this is a “known issue” or if there’s a mechanic that I’m missing, but I keep seeing toons shrug off stun and then act.

In my last battle, every time I stunned Traya she would come out of stun and instantly have 100% turn meter and take her action as is she hadn’t been stunned. Every time.

Was there a Thrawn present using his special ability on her? If Thrawn was on that team, his special can cleanse her debuff and swap his TM with hers.

No, it was 4 v 1, Traya alone. She was stunned. When her TM hit 100% and the stun ended, her TM filled to 100% again and she took a turn.

It didn’t fill to 100% again, it never left 100% because she hadn’t finished her turn yet. This has already been answered. Sorry you don’t like the answer but that’s how it works.

Just because you answered my question, it doesn’t mean your answer is correct.

Your answer includes the words “hadn’t finished her turn yet” but by definition when stunned she doesn’t get a turn. Not sure why that’s so hard to understand.

Based on both powers descriptions, she shouldn’t get a turn.

Sure, it’s far more likely that the way you want the game to work is correct despite the fact that it has never worked that way. There is no mechanic that treats stun the way you want it to be treated.

Another example: Boba’s contract. It applies to the first enemy that takes a turn. If the first enemy to reach 100% TM is stunned and thus doesn’t do anything, that still counts as the first enemy to take a turn for purposes of the contract.

Not sure why my original reply disappeared. Anyway roughly what I said:

I'm not trying to be rude, but the way I've described stun is the way it's worked for as long as I can remember. How does stun work when you use it on a character? Do they not miss their next turn? Because they should.

And I'd argue that if it's working the way you describe on Boba's contract (I've never tested that), the mechanic should be fixed there as well. Either that or the definition of what stun is supposed to do needs to be changed.

I have no idea in what circumstances you believe it used to work that way.

Here’s another example: Krennic can stun for 2 turns. If being stunned means you don’t get a turn, how can that stun ever end?

It works that way in every circumstance other than when fighting Traya (apparently) - see my post below, I just tested it and it works exactly as I've described.

As for Krennic, that' easy. After the character MISSES 2 turns they get to act.

In most circumstances there is no difference between “not getting a turn” and “getting a turn in which you don’t get to do anything unless the stun is cleansed.” So yes, of course it happens consistently with both of those most of the time. It’s only circumstances where those definitions diverge that can test this, and in every circumstance I can think of what happens is consistent with the latter.

Nest is another example. Some people seem to think that stunning her is a bad idea but it’s not. In fact it’s a great idea because the protection goes away after her stunned turn.

"ChristophIV;c-1755621" wrote:
She is dispelling all debuffs on Sith allies at the start of their turn.

Stunned toon gets 100% TM, stun is removed via Traya's unique, character attacks.

I have a different question about this ability. It specifically says a Sith *ally’s* turn. Why does Traya get to treat herself as an ally? Aren’t there other cases where abilities that specify they act on ally’s do not act on or include the owning character?

"Firebrigade;c-1755752" wrote:

"UlicQ;c-1755630" wrote:

"ChristophIV;c-1755621" wrote:
She is dispelling all debuffs on Sith allies at the start of their turn.

Stunned toon gets 100% TM, stun is removed via Traya's unique, character attacks.

But the issue is it’s Traya herself who is stunned, so she shouldn’t be able to dispel a debuff on herself until she actually gets a turn, and the definition of stun is that the character misses a turn. This would actually be true of any other sith toon too. If they are stunned they don’t get a turn to dispel themselves.

If this is the intent the ability should say all sith are immune to stun. Because that’s basically how it’s working.

I have a different question about this ability. It specifically says a Sith *ally’s* turn. Why does Traya get to treat herself as an ally? Aren’t there other cases where abilities that specify they act on ally’s do not act on or include the owning character?

Unless the ability states "other allies" instead of "allies", it applies to the character the ability belongs to as well.

"Firebrigade;c-1755752" wrote:

"ChristophIV;c-1755621" wrote:
She is dispelling all debuffs on Sith allies at the start of their turn.

Stunned toon gets 100% TM, stun is removed via Traya's unique, character attacks.

I have a different question about this ability. It specifically says a Sith *ally’s* turn. Why does Traya get to treat herself as an ally? Aren’t there other cases where abilities that specify they act on ally’s do not act on or include the owning character?

The "ally" keyword always refers to your whole team while an ability with "other allies" or "another ally" would exclude that one char from the effect of this ability.

f.e. Vader includes himself in the +16 speed boost with his unique

Of course stun doesn’t skip a character’s turn, otherwise it would last indefinitely since It’s’a debuff with a 1 turn duration which means your character needs to take a turn for it to go away. It’s also why as someone else said your cooldowns go down even when stunned, and the duration of all other buffs/debuffs too. Every passive ability also applies even when stunned such as zeb and chopper regen uniques for example.

"UlicQ;c-1755741" wrote:
. Otherwise as I originally stated, the ability should state Sith are Immune to Stun, because as it's working they can NOT be stunned. This is very different than dispelling a regular debuff.

No, they're not immune to stun. As you've seen you can stun them which prevents them from avoiding or assisting attacks, the stun just not stick to them.
Following your logic Sith are immune to all regular debuffs because all of them are removed at the start of the turn but that's quite wrong, they're just dispelled but have an effect as long as the specific characters doesn't start its turn.

Everything is WAI. The skill that cleanses at the start of the turn is a unique, not a special, so stun doesn't stop it from triggering and as long as traya is alive it works 'behind the scene'.
The order of actions is therefore happening like:
Traya reaches 100% tm -> unique meets condition to trigger, checks for debuffs and removes stun -> traya still at 100% tm takes a turn.
It shouldn't be too difficult to understand but if it is then imagine that each of the uniques on every character in the battle acts as a separate, invisible combatant who doesn't have a tm of it's own but rather waits for a specific condition to let it take an action.
If it didn't work this way then if traya was stunned while another sith was taking a turn then the debuffs on this other sith wouldn't be cleansed.

"Sarith_LeKit;c-1755669" wrote:

"UlicQ;c-1755666" wrote:
And as for the comments about Fulcrum and L3, those are entirely different mechanics at work. L3 dispels someone when she's damaged, so it doesn't require a turn, so it would make sense that she could dispel it on herself if she was stunned and then took damage. And Fulcrum (Ahsoka) dispels debuffs on herslf at the end of "each" turn, i.e. anyone's turn not her own. So it makes sense for her to shrug stun off as soon as she's hit with it, as her dispel would fire when the attacker who stunned her ends their turn.

The issue with Traya's ability as it's described as she (or any sith) to have an action for the dispel to cleanse them, but the stun "should" negate that turn.

As I said, if this is working as intended it should be reworded to say all Sith are immune to stun because that's basically what's happening.

Firstly, your definition of stun is wrong. Basiclly what happens when you are stunned, your character loses 100% of its turn meter at start of its turn (which is why they still get their cooldowns reduced by turn and with your definition that shouldnt happen). Now this game and alot of other games have somthing called order of actions. And traya's cleanse have a priority on stun which means that first her cleanse do its thing then stun do its thing but since cleanse removes stun nothing happens. I hope I helped

umm no. The way stun works is like a pause button that at the end of the current turn is removed and then you are able to move on your next turn. If that gets dispelled by someone else before the end of your current turn you can take that turn this round. Basically it can be unpaused at anytime by any ally that can remove it, if you keep this in mind with traya and her unique, she is basically getting to her turn to unpause it, however because it is a unique and takes place at the beginning of her turn she gets unpaused, and thus can take a turn. Uniques rarely care about being stunned, or anything else, if it does it usually states that in the description. Such as as long as XXX is active XXX will happen. It does not say that trayas ability can only be used if she is active. Therefore it happens every turn no matter if she is stunned or not, and thus the reason she is able to go. Which is why stunned or not Asajj and Daka both earn stacks.

Definition of stun for SWGOH:

Character misses a turn and cannot avoid attacks.