Royal Guard viable in pvp now?

I like the concept of an auto tank ability. All tanks need this or similar skills.

@Mizake_Mizan

At the end of each turn, if any other ally took damage that turn, Royal Guard gains 5% Turn Meter. In addition, Royal Guard Taunts for 1 turn whenever another ally falls below 50% Health.

Unless we're using a different language, the dev notes do suggest that RG is capable of taunting multiple times, out of turn.

As for poe, there were plenty of reasons why he was nerfed. Do you see calls for ackbar to be nerfed for giving another toon 100% turn meter? He enables only one character to move first. Perfectly fine. Balanced. Poe allows 5 to go first.One character allowing 5 characters to go first is not fine, especially when he's fast.Poe was a problem that had to be fixed.

There were other suggestions by other forumers to either remove his turn meter manipulation or make it something like his expose which had a percentage chance of occurring.It's really unfortunate the devs did not explore other options and "overnerfed" poe. Anyhow, you shouldn't be directing the blame at the people who pointed out a legitimate issue. You should be directing the blame at the devs who did the nerfs to poe in the wrong way. It is not right to ask people to self-censor just because of what happened to poe, especially in a discussion forum.

There is less randomness in theorycrafting ever since the speed changes, which allows people to more accurately predict what will happen and spot potential issues before they take effect. There is nothing wrong with theorycrafting since things will more or less pan out as predicted with the knowledge of speed, damage ranges/cooldowns/hp of characters.

Please refrain from using strawman fallacies to shut the discussion down.It is unrelated, and unhelpful to the discussion.

"DefinitivePoeCounter;142211" wrote:

"JohnnySteelAlpha;142059" wrote:
Just going through scenarios, I'm in the camp of not being a fan of this change. Imagine teams with like 88, Poggle, Daka, and RG....thrown in any 5th...let's say GS. What are you going to focus down on? With Daka in there and the rez potential, you generally have to FF on her...but that's not easy to take her all the way to death before RG procs his taunt and saves her. I think you can kill 88 easily without procing the taunt of RG, but then you probably can't kill Daka in rd 1...so she will try to rez 88. 88 will rez and blow your face off. I think it's going to create some miserable RNG defense slot combinations that's going to make it feel a lot like Poe where you weren't countering at a hard rate and the outcome was heavily influenced by RNG. Not sure it will be as bad - probably not, but I do think this helps take us toward a Poe-like situation where the game goes back to pivoting around one toon and most tactics hinge off of that skill.

It doesn't work that way. It is rather easy to circumvent RG taunt. You can run QGJ+Geo and use Geo's assist to kill off someone and proc RG's taunt and then dispel it with QGJ.

My favorite is just using Ani to put buff immunity on RG and then plough my way through them.

You just played in to the rez team's hands though. that killed off toon will be brought back by Daka's revive in many cases since she's heavily owned. So your first FF target will be right back in your face with meter gain and offense up. RG forced fire on hisself, taking away Jinn's ability to kill Daka or something else.

It's not just purely RG that will be tough...but it's the RG+rez+cannons squads that will be quite tough to contain. You will have very difficult focus fire decisions to make. Do you hit the taunter, the rez toon, or the cannon that takes your head off if it's still standing? Do you just let Poggle go offense up for everyone?

Also, the buff block is <40% effectively on Anakin. Any counter has to get at least to 60%+ win rate before it matters because you can in theory always get to 50% vs. any specific team just by using a clone squad and doing coin flips...and probably a tad over 50% in clone teams considering the human vs. AI advantage that skews the result in a mirror match.

I'm not saying nerf - never said nerf Poe even ... but just wait...this passive taunt skill when optimized will be pivotal to how you play arena at the top levels and then eventually later as he leaks out. Tactics to win will largely come down to navigating around this skill. RG effectively is all speeds...he can proc and change the match at any speed level - he can operate in any speed dimension. He's an omnipresent taunt lifesaver. So you can't avoid his taunt by being fast or by being slow ....he will act at any time.

"JohnnySteelAlpha;142657" wrote:

"DefinitivePoeCounter;142211" wrote:

"JohnnySteelAlpha;142059" wrote:
Just going through scenarios, I'm in the camp of not being a fan of this change. Imagine teams with like 88, Poggle, Daka, and RG....thrown in any 5th...let's say GS. What are you going to focus down on? With Daka in there and the rez potential, you generally have to FF on her...but that's not easy to take her all the way to death before RG procs his taunt and saves her. I think you can kill 88 easily without procing the taunt of RG, but then you probably can't kill Daka in rd 1...so she will try to rez 88. 88 will rez and blow your face off. I think it's going to create some miserable RNG defense slot combinations that's going to make it feel a lot like Poe where you weren't countering at a hard rate and the outcome was heavily influenced by RNG. Not sure it will be as bad - probably not, but I do think this helps take us toward a Poe-like situation where the game goes back to pivoting around one toon and most tactics hinge off of that skill.

It doesn't work that way. It is rather easy to circumvent RG taunt. You can run QGJ+Geo and use Geo's assist to kill off someone and proc RG's taunt and then dispel it with QGJ.

My favorite is just using Ani to put buff immunity on RG and then plough my way through them.

You just played in to the rez team's hands though. that killed off toon will be brought back by Daka's revive in many cases since she's heavily owned. So your first FF target will be right back in your face with meter gain and offense up. RG forced fire on hisself, taking away Jinn's ability to kill Daka or something else.

It's not just purely RG that will be tough...but it's the RG+rez+cannons squads that will be quite tough to contain. You will have very difficult focus fire decisions to make. Do you hit the taunter, the rez toon, or the cannon that takes your head off if it's still standing? Do you just let Poggle go offense up for everyone?

Also, the buff block is <40% effectively on Anakin. Any counter has to get at least to 60%+ win rate before it matters because you can in theory always get to 50% vs. any specific team just by using a clone squad and doing coin flips...and probably a tad over 50% in clone teams considering the human vs. AI advantage that skews the result in a mirror match.

I'm not saying nerf - never said nerf Poe even ... but just wait...this passive taunt skill when optimized will be pivotal to how you play arena at the top levels and then eventually later as he leaks out. Tactics to win will largely come down to navigating around this skill. RG effectively is all speeds...he can proc and change the match at any speed level - he can operate in any speed dimension. He's an omnipresent taunt lifesaver. So you can't avoid his taunt by being fast or by being slow ....he will act at any time.

+1000

This is coupled with no discernible weakness.

- He has low damage which is offset by a ridiculously high stun rate on his basic which is universally effective.
- He has low speed which is offset by a guaranteed passive taunt with no known cool down.
- He will potentially have the highest health in the game.
- He will have respectable tenacity making him difficult to cc.

"Mizake_Mizan;142572" wrote:

Really? Like how a lot of people overreacted on Poe, including yourself? You of all people should understand the dangers of calling for all-out nerfs when we can't see the whole picture. In Poe's case, we had no idea they would alter speed changes so dramatically.

The calls for his speed to not be increased to 143 were absolutely correct at the time. There was no overreaction whatsoever, exactly what Instinct and others predicted happened. The changes they made took too long, were not what was asked for, and were completely misguided. I specifically opposed the nerfing they did because I was afraid it would not be enough and then future changes would result in over-nerfing. That is what happened.

"Mizake_Mizan;142572" wrote:

Seriously, EA/CG is in a no-win situation.

There's a simple win situation: properly design and balance things. Is that so hard? They are taking in enormous amounts of money. They have expert game designers and a QA staff. They also have a pool of very eager advanced players who would be quite happy to beta test if they would only take advantage of it.
At any rate, nobody is screaming for anything to be nerfed yet. We are simply analyzing what we have been told and considering what impact it will have.
ETA: And yes, I will state as a general rule of thumb that putting in a character with a 100% out-of-turn taunt is probably a bad idea. There are very few out-of-turn abilities to begin with, that one is insanely strong, and if it is unlimited, is going to be a problem.

"Telaan;142392" wrote:

"DefinitivePoeCounter;142211" wrote:

"JohnnySteelAlpha;142059" wrote:
Just going through scenarios, I'm in the camp of not being a fan of this change. Imagine teams with like 88, Poggle, Daka, and RG....thrown in any 5th...let's say GS. What are you going to focus down on? With Daka in there and the rez potential, you generally have to FF on her...but that's not easy to take her all the way to death before RG procs his taunt and saves her. I think you can kill 88 easily without procing the taunt of RG, but then you probably can't kill Daka in rd 1...so she will try to rez 88. 88 will rez and blow your face off. I think it's going to create some miserable RNG defense slot combinations that's going to make it feel a lot like Poe where you weren't countering at a hard rate and the outcome was heavily influenced by RNG. Not sure it will be as bad - probably not, but I do think this helps take us toward a Poe-like situation where the game goes back to pivoting around one toon and most tactics hinge off of that skill.

It doesn't work that way. It is rather easy to circumvent RG taunt. You can run QGJ+Geo and use Geo's assist to kill off someone and proc RG's taunt and then dispel it with QGJ.

My favorite is just using Ani to put buff immunity on RG and then plough my way through them.

The more I think on this, the more unhappy with this change I become.

I love Anakin. I run him on my team now. But his healing/buff immunity is very unreliable. It's only got a 40% proc rate and is subject to being resisted. RG appears as if it will have decent tenacity so that makes it even more unreliable.

Dispelling the taunt is only a temporary fix since as soon as you get another toon below 50% health it'll proc again.

This should never have been allowed to get past the idea part of a discussion. The guaranteed taunt should only work for empire toons with a % chance on non-empire toons. I'm with @JohnnySteelAlpha on this.

@CG_JohnSalera any chance we could have a discussion of the logic behind all this?

@Qeltar it's best to contact CapitalMethod at Reddit since he's in charge of characters. Never assume people will be so proactive to pass on your points (which are good ones) to the ones who can make decisions.

"xJazzx;142797" wrote:

@Qeltar it's best to contact CapitalMethod at Reddit since he's in charge of characters. Never assume people will be so proactive to pass on your points (which are good ones) to the ones who can make decisions.

You got me and @Telaan mixed up because of our avatars. :) But IMO it's too soon to be bugging the devs directly, it will be here tomorrow, let's see what happens.

"Plasmaj;142667" wrote:

"BentWookie;142382" wrote:
Royal Guard requires purple gear in 3 slots just to go from VI to VII. I can only imagine the brutality of gearing him up further.

I think I might just wait and see how this change works out before doing anything. :/

Not the worst purple gear at least. 20 Mk 6 Biotech implants ( I have 40 with no characters currently needing), 20 Mk 3 Sienar Holo Projectors (I have 23 with the only people currently needing them on my roster being Vader and Chewie, neither of whom I am investing in at the moment), and 20 Mk 4 Laptops which everyone needs but at least are available in the challenge.

True, but this is pretty steep for that gear level.. I wonder if the next steps will require 50? :/ I am going to adopt a "wait and see" philosophy and just stockpile gear until I see if the changes are as impactful as they seem on paper.

"Telaan;142763" wrote:

"JohnnySteelAlpha;142657" wrote:

"DefinitivePoeCounter;142211" wrote:

"JohnnySteelAlpha;142059" wrote:
Just going through scenarios, I'm in the camp of not being a fan of this change. Imagine teams with like 88, Poggle, Daka, and RG....thrown in any 5th...let's say GS. What are you going to focus down on? With Daka in there and the rez potential, you generally have to FF on her...but that's not easy to take her all the way to death before RG procs his taunt and saves her. I think you can kill 88 easily without procing the taunt of RG, but then you probably can't kill Daka in rd 1...so she will try to rez 88. 88 will rez and blow your face off. I think it's going to create some miserable RNG defense slot combinations that's going to make it feel a lot like Poe where you weren't countering at a hard rate and the outcome was heavily influenced by RNG. Not sure it will be as bad - probably not, but I do think this helps take us toward a Poe-like situation where the game goes back to pivoting around one toon and most tactics hinge off of that skill.

It doesn't work that way. It is rather easy to circumvent RG taunt. You can run QGJ+Geo and use Geo's assist to kill off someone and proc RG's taunt and then dispel it with QGJ.

My favorite is just using Ani to put buff immunity on RG and then plough my way through them.

You just played in to the rez team's hands though. that killed off toon will be brought back by Daka's revive in many cases since she's heavily owned. So your first FF target will be right back in your face with meter gain and offense up. RG forced fire on hisself, taking away Jinn's ability to kill Daka or something else.

It's not just purely RG that will be tough...but it's the RG+rez+cannons squads that will be quite tough to contain. You will have very difficult focus fire decisions to make. Do you hit the taunter, the rez toon, or the cannon that takes your head off if it's still standing? Do you just let Poggle go offense up for everyone?

Also, the buff block is <40% effectively on Anakin. Any counter has to get at least to 60%+ win rate before it matters because you can in theory always get to 50% vs. any specific team just by using a clone squad and doing coin flips...and probably a tad over 50% in clone teams considering the human vs. AI advantage that skews the result in a mirror match.

I'm not saying nerf - never said nerf Poe even ... but just wait...this passive taunt skill when optimized will be pivotal to how you play arena at the top levels and then eventually later as he leaks out. Tactics to win will largely come down to navigating around this skill. RG effectively is all speeds...he can proc and change the match at any speed level - he can operate in any speed dimension. He's an omnipresent taunt lifesaver. So you can't avoid his taunt by being fast or by being slow ....he will act at any time.

+1000

This is coupled with no discernible weakness.

- He has low damage which is offset by a ridiculously high stun rate on his basic which is universally effective.
- He has low speed which is offset by a guaranteed passive taunt with no known cool down.
- He will potentially have the highest health in the game.
- He will have respectable tenacity making him difficult to cc.

Beginning to farm him now :O

RG didn't make it to the game and yet I can see some recurrent anti-Poe names already suggesting he is too OP and ready to start the nerf-RG-posts from the moment he hits the game. It's unbelievable.

I'll make all this flagrant jealousy towards toons you can't have pretty simple for you:
If RG is good then farm it, adapt your team or just shut up.