Someone started this discussion on the Sim Reddit and I just loved the topic and fully agreed. Sims 4's main weakness is that each Sim tends to act the same due to the emotions overriding the weak traits and the reactions to death, divorce, and other drama is weakly executed. I am just going to start by copying my response from that discussion and ask everybody to lend their specific ideas for ways to make each Sim unique from the other!! Hopefully the gurus will read our multitude of responses to get ideas! Anyway here were my ideas:We simply need a pack based on personalities/drama/consequence. I feel something like this could be a game pack and of course a mix of free updates. The perfect free update is allowing for the same amount of traits that Sims 3 did and maybe a couple new and very strong traits such as jealous. "Jealous" is the most noticeable trait in The Sims 4. You literally can't have your partner simply TALK to another sim without the jealous sim getting angry and letting you know. A trait shouldn't just be a random moodlet and boost here and there. This pack could contain reputation system, hobby enthusiasm, attraction system, likes/dislikes, wants/fears, strong reactions to many situations that arise AND reactions based on traits/mood of sim. Use the emotion system to coincide with your sim's traits and then have them react! For example, a hot-headed sim could get really nasty and fight both partner and cheater if they walked in on them Woohooing. Perhaps a "gloomy" sim would have an emotional breakdown of crying and screaming without the rage. I also always thought they should add quirks! The pets get a quirk like being afraid of the TV. I imagine a Sim quirk would be "Snores", "Picks nose" (I feel this should have been included with Parenthood for "Bad Manners" Sims!), "annoying laugh", "rolls eyes constantly" or whatever you can think up . A pack based solely on deep customization of a sim that truly matters would be AMAZING! The Sims 4 is not a lost cause in this department whatsoever. I hated toddlers in the past and now I enjoy them more than children sometimes! This game does so well in a multitude of areas but unfortunately is weakest in what your game should spring from: deeper sims and reaction to the world around them!

I honestly think there should just be a stronger tie between emotions and traits. As of now, the only tie between them are the occasional trait-based moodlets that sims with certain traits sometimes get (i.e. feeling flirty, etc.), other than that, traits don't really influence emotions that much and hence all sims get pretty much the same moodlets to everything regardless of traits as a result. There should be more trait-specific moodlets (like, for example have the hot-headed sims receive an exclusive angry buff in reaction to things being broken in the house) so that each sim would have a unique reaction to the same thing depending on their traits. It's already set in stone that emotions pretty much govern this game, so there's no way to work around that other than to make the best use of it - i.e. Use it as a platform for sims to display their traits.BTW, this thread should totally go into the ideas section. It's probably more likely to catch the attention of gurus there.

"Lavenderlights;c-16257851" wrote:I honestly think there should just be a stronger tie between emotions and traits. As of now, the only tie between them are the occasional trait-based moodlets that sims with certain traits sometimes get (i.e. feeling flirty, etc.), other than that, traits don't really influence emotions that much and hence all sims get pretty much the same moodlets to everything regardless of traits as a result. There should be more trait-specific moodlets (like, for example have the hot-headed sims receive an exclusive angry buff in reaction to things being broken in the house) so that each sim would have a unique reaction to the same thing depending on their traits. It's already set in stone that emotions pretty much govern this game, so there's no way to work around that other than to make the best use of it - i.e. Use it as a platform for sims to display their traits.BTW, this thread should totally go into the ideas section. It's probably more likely to catch the attention of gurus there.Actually hot headed sims do get angry emotional buffs from things that other sims will never get them from. For example, hot headed sims often wake up angry, and also get strong angry buffs from wind chimes (really I had to remove them at some point or else all my sim's workouts would have been very discomforting experiences), crying / difficult toddlers, cleaning if they're also lazy (instead of only getting tense), etc. I think the hot headed trait is actually one of the better ones because they truly are hot headed. Jealous I myself don't like so much because it's annoying to play (but I know others like it because it's also rather strong). Still, I agree that some traits could be a lot better, and I still wish they had given us a "hates animals" and "scares easily" trait along with a scared emotion :)

Quirks would be a great idea...so long as we, the players, could pick them. I'm not a fan of just adding a bunch of hidden traits and calling it a day. I want quirks to be something that compliments and enhances the traits system the way that the turn on's and turn off's compliment and enhance your sim's base personality in TS2. So, say, if your sim has the traits Gloomy, Bookworm, and Loner, you could add the "Book Shield" (your sim hides their face with their book when reading in public or around other sims in general) to accentuate how bookish and socially awkward they are, the "Distrusts Vegetarians" quirk because in your head cannon your sim believes that all vegetarians are actually evil wererabbits bent on forcing all of humanity to suffer the same meat-free existence their wererabbit biology forces upon them, and the "Knucklecracker" quirk for the sake of giving them an annoying/disturbing habit.And, of course, you know I'm a fan of more intense negative emotions, extra trait slots, and stronger traits. In fact, add officially patching the game so that Uncomfortable moodlets boost other negative moodlets and add a Stoic trait that makes it harder for a sim to gain higher-level moodlets in any emotion and a Not Easily Impressed trait that greatly reduces the effectiveness of ambient Happy moodlets from decor on your sim. I'd like that a lot.

My in-depth ideas include going full RPG with stats for each sim in various categories as well as lots of unique and interesting traits.

"Lavenderlights;c-16258943" wrote:"SimTrippy;c-16257921" wrote:"Lavenderlights;c-16257851" wrote:I honestly think there should just be a stronger tie between emotions and traits. As of now, the only tie between them are the occasional trait-based moodlets that sims with certain traits sometimes get (i.e. feeling flirty, etc.), other than that, traits don't really influence emotions that much and hence all sims get pretty much the same moodlets to everything regardless of traits as a result. There should be more trait-specific moodlets (like, for example have the hot-headed sims receive an exclusive angry buff in reaction to things being broken in the house) so that each sim would have a unique reaction to the same thing depending on their traits. It's already set in stone that emotions pretty much govern this game, so there's no way to work around that other than to make the best use of it - i.e. Use it as a platform for sims to display their traits.BTW, this thread should totally go into the ideas section. It's probably more likely to catch the attention of gurus there.Actually hot headed sims do get angry emotional buffs from things that other sims will never get them from. For example, hot headed sims often wake up angry, and also get strong angry buffs from wind chimes (really I had to remove them at some point or else all my sim's workouts would have been very discomforting experiences), crying / difficult toddlers, cleaning if they're also lazy (instead of only getting tense), etc. I think the hot headed trait is actually one of the better ones because they truly are hot headed. Jealous I myself don't like so much because it's annoying to play (but I know others like it because it's also rather strong). Still, I agree that some traits could be a lot better, and I still wish they had given us a "hates animals" and "scares easily" trait along with a scared emotion :)Really? :o Lol I didn't know that, I guess it's because I don't play with the hot-headed trait much. Thanks for pointing those details out, that trait does sound like one of the better ones. If only all traits were that impactful...*sigh*I've noticed that most of the emotion based traits usually have a big impact on the sims behaviour, probably because emotions 'rule' the sims behaviour and these traits influence their emotions directly.Back to the thread I would love an expanded range of personality, I would really like to see sims with different traits have different ways of acting on specific emotions. So a sim with (trait) when sad would act differently than sim with (trait) does when sad. Variation in how sims display their emotions would go a long way I believe to make them more distinct.

Your in-depth ideas to make each Sim more unique!

AuzzPanda
7 years ago
Oh, I have an idea for unique sims! Instead of constantly buying and praising the Sims Team nowadays, we could actually make them create proper work and stop leaving the game to 99% imagination and 1% actual gameplay!
alan650
New Spectator
7 years ago
"Sigzy05;c-16259734" wrote:
"SimTrippy;c-16257921" wrote:
"Lavenderlights;c-16257851" wrote:
I honestly think there should just be a stronger tie between emotions and traits. As of now, the only tie between them are the occasional trait-based moodlets that sims with certain traits sometimes get (i.e. feeling flirty, etc.), other than that, traits don't really influence emotions that much and hence all sims get pretty much the same moodlets to everything regardless of traits as a result. There should be more trait-specific moodlets (like, for example have the hot-headed sims receive an exclusive angry buff in reaction to things being broken in the house) so that each sim would have a unique reaction to the same thing depending on their traits. It's already set in stone that emotions pretty much govern this game, so there's no way to work around that other than to make the best use of it - i.e. Use it as a platform for sims to display their traits.

BTW, this thread should totally go into the ideas section. It's probably more likely to catch the attention of gurus there.

Actually hot headed sims do get angry emotional buffs from things that other sims will never get them from. For example, hot headed sims often wake up angry, and also get strong angry buffs from wind chimes (really I had to remove them at some point or else all my sim's workouts would have been very discomforting experiences), crying / difficult toddlers, cleaning if they're also lazy (instead of only getting tense), etc. I think the hot headed trait is actually one of the better ones because they truly are hot headed. Jealous I myself don't like so much because it's annoying to play (but I know others like it because it's also rather strong). Still, I agree that some traits could be a lot better, and I still wish they had given us a "hates animals" and "scares easily" trait along with a scared emotion :)

That's nothing. Plus wind chimes is from a SP. Where's the base game gameplay surrounding that trait? A +1 moodlet that gets easily overriten? They don't even seem to get angry when sims use mischief with them.

In TS3 Hot Heads had this:

Hot-headed Sims will bypass getting sad or uncomfortable and just get really mad.
Objects breaking, other Sims not being nice and other negative moodlets can enrage this Sim.
Hot-headed Sims will react badly to negative social interactions.
This trait provides a bonus to Sims writing in the satire genre.
Hot-headed Sims are more likely to autonomously insult or argue with other Sims for little reason, but not as much as Inappropriate or Mean-Spirited Sims.
Hot-headed Sims will sometimes take their anger out on other Sims.
Hot-headed Sims hold grudges and are far less accepting of apologies than other Sims.
Negative moodlets on the Sim related to anger are 50% more effective.
Sims with the Hot-headed trait will become "Very Angry" with the other Sim right away if the other Sim performs a Mean interaction with them, as opposed to thinking the other Sim is "Impolite", "Rude" or "Unforgivably Rude". Some Mean interactions like "Greet Rudely", "Accuse of Being a Diva" (if the Hot-Headed Sim does not first have the Diva trait) and "Slap With Glove" bypass this and cause them to feel insulted instead of being angry.
Sims with Hot-headed trait do not receive 'Humiliated' moodlet when a mean action is committed on them (like being yelled at, been argued with or being slapped by another sim).
Hot-headed Sims will always retort when argued with, never being distressed unlike other Sims. This trait is shared with Diva Sims, who will also proceed to automatically slap the Sim arguing with them. If a Hot-Headed Sim is "Accused of Being X", the Hot-Headed Sim will angrily dismiss the insult rather than appear persecuted.
Hot-headed Sims are still subject to an awkward reaction when an Argue or Insult interaction is performed by a Sim with the Socially Awkward trait.
If the mood level is low, they become angry instead of uncomfortable and furious instead of miserable.
If a Sim who is a friend of the Hot-headed Sim uses one single mean interaction on them, the Hot-headed Sim may gain a wish to stop being friends with the offending Sim. The Friendly trait slightly lowers the chance of this wish occurring.
Hot-headed Sims are more likely to haves wishes to be mean to Sims whom they have lost friendship with.
Don't allow a Sim to the use the "Splash" interaction on a Hot-headed Sim while in a pool, as the Hot-headed Sim will furiously splash back, decreasing the offending Sims's Fun gain. They share this attribute with Grumpy and Mean-Spirited Sims.
Hot-headed Sims are more likely to win bar brawls, but the trait does not affect the outcome of the "Fight!" interaction.
Hot-headed Sims are always able to perform interactions under "Funny", due to the fact that they can never get sad or depressed unless the Hot-headed trait is removed.

What a detailed explanation! It's crazy how much better that trait was in Sims 3. I loved the "diva" trait and it would crack me up when they'd do the dramatic singing "compliment self" interaction. I do miss the detailed traits in Sims 3. Like I previously said I overall enjoy Sims 4 more but can't deny Sims 3 did traits much better.
alan650
New Spectator
7 years ago
"AuzzPanda;c-16260173" wrote:
Oh, I have an idea for unique sims! Instead of constantly buying and praising the Sims Team nowadays, we could actually make them create proper work and stop leaving the game to 99% imagination and 1% actual gameplay!

The game has fantastic areas and seriously weak areas. Anyone is free to compliment what they feel is done right. But if there is something that needs improved we definitely should air our grievances until that area is improved.
NokkitheSloth
7 years ago
I totally agree we do need more individuality for each sim. Traits need to be more defined, they done this really well witch toddler traits, I have twins in game atm and one in independent and fights the parent as every curve because they want to do it on their own and the other angelic who wants to interact loads and gets sad when one parent goes to work etc. I want this with other life stages.
Also I want more unique traits per life stage like child and toddler. From teen to elder it’s all the same. Maybe a cheerful teen ends up a grumpy elder because he failed at getting promotions or producing an heir or having friends etc. An influence from their life affecting their traits in retirement like they done with parenthood for the younger ones, if they get top in responsibility they get a trait.
I don’t think it helps that’s the amount of traits and goals are so limited, and the emotional system is so erractic and overpowering.
If we were to get another big patch this year then I would want some changes made here. It would improve the game drastically (an elder and teen stuff pack wouldn’t go amiss either ;) )
Cynna1065
7 years ago
@Sigzy05 nice list and a really concrete example of how in-depth traits used to be.

I particularly liked how there were allowances made for how Sims of specific traits responded to each other during certain interactions. The detail was lovely. IIRC, TS2 was great at this also.

"alan650111;c-16260162" wrote:

Well if you did see the Sims 3 traits in action you'd understand our upset towards the traits in 4.

It shouldn't even require "seeing". That poster was just given an objective list of the influence of that particular trait within the game. It shouldn't matter whether they played the game or not, whether they liked the game or not. There is a clear difference that was illustrated. They ignored it. Which is their choice, of course. But choosing to ignore objective facts due to your own subjective feelings toward something... ::shrug::

The traits in TS4 are basically window dressing. They're a kind of sleight of hand, a placebo even. If we're told a Sim has a certain trait, in general, we believe it. However, objectively watching the reactions of a group of Sims to the same stimuli, it's hard to tell the differences between them, if any. That has been my experience.

The emotion system is so overpowering, traits don't matter. Traits should be the foundation of Sim interactions. That foundation should influence which emotions arise and when, not the other way around.

Experiments to consider: sit a bunch of Sims down at a table and watch them eat. Or, bring a group of Sims with vastly different traits to a club, slip a Loner Sim in there, and see what happens.

"clover24;c-16260219" wrote:
I totally agree we do need more individuality for each sim. Traits need to be more defined, they done this really well witch toddler traits, I have twins in game atm and one in independent and fights the parent as every curve because they want to do it on their own and the other angelic who wants to interact loads and gets sad when one parent goes to work etc. I want this with other life stages.
Also I want more unique traits per life stage like child and toddler. From teen to elder it’s all the same. Maybe a cheerful teen ends up a grumpy elder because he failed at getting promotions or producing an heir or having friends etc. An influence from their life affecting their traits in retirement like they done with parenthood for the younger ones, if they get top in responsibility they get a trait.
I don’t think it helps that’s the amount of traits and goals are so limited, and the emotional system is so erractic and overpowering.
If we were to get another big patch this year then I would want some changes made here. It would improve the game drastically (an elder and teen stuff pack wouldn’t go amiss either ;) )

In one word:

Yes!
simtown15
7 years ago
I have a gloomy sim who’s rarely sad and a noncommittal sim who’s happily married with 2 kids. So, yeah, the traits need fixing.
Jestina
7 years ago
The only fix would be to get rid of the emotion system and have traits dictate a sims behavior, like they did in TS3.
MidnightAura86
New Spectator
7 years ago
Every sim is nice. My sim threw a drink at someone and they refused to leave the apartment. When they did go, they thanked my sim for a nice time. Heck even Grim will empty your trash after he's collected the dead.
SimOppresser
7 years ago
"MidnightAura;c-16265975" wrote:
Every sim is nice. My sim threw a drink at someone and they refused to leave the apartment. When they did go, they thanked my sim for a nice time. Heck even Grim will empty your trash after he's collected the dead.

Clearly they enjoyed themselves; your sim's drink was on them after all :smirk:
comicsforever
7 years ago
I think adding fear would go a long way for all the sims as well as fears like fear of death fear of divorce fear of someone cheating on you
fear of ghost fear of monsters fear of losing your job