Del Sol Valley was small on purpose

I feel like it's dismissive to call it an "excuse" and nothing more because we (or at least I) have already seen how possible performance issues are after an EP is released (CL and Seasons caused a lot in particular)

That said, even if it's not an excuse and it's an actual reason it's not really a good reason. I think performance has come up time and time again as a reason for why the game can't have certain things yet the game does not actually perform all that well. There's gotta be a deeper issue.

Way too small and looks kind of boring.

While the lack of lots is disappointing, the world is visually stunning. And perhaps given the majority of the community feels let down about how very few lots there are, maybe (#fingers crossed with wishfull hopes) we will get another empty world with 15 to 20 lots sometime in the future. Plus we don't know what will be after GF. Perhaps the world suits the EP for exactly what is intended.

"Wulfsimmer;d-949894" wrote:
So, we sacrificed open worlds for performance but now closed worlds will be smaller and smaller for performance as well?!


Also...HOW?! One lot literally loads and renders at a time so how is having more worlds going to affect this if they don't load in until you click on them. Am confused, someone explain.

There are systems that could have handled what EA/Maxis put out but they thought about the lowest denominator and that is low end systems. All my Systems can handle open world and every feature that was available for Sims but EA/Maxis made where regardless of what system you have, your play will be the same as an low end system and I look at that as not fair especially if they could have allowed the program to scale to the system specs. The only thing I can come up with as with Open worlds larger Neighborhoods in time will slow things up and as they pile on packs it will remain to be seen how will impact lower end systems. Also in some aspect as packs are added on, the coding increases. However, I am only taking an guess. It appears to me that Sims 4 may be exhibiting some of Sims 3 problems as much as EA/Maxis trying to avoid it.

"Zeldaboy180;c-16792611" wrote:

"Sigzy05;c-16792556" wrote:

"ChelleJo;c-16792508" wrote:

"Jordan061102;c-16792373" wrote:

"Felicity;c-16792367" wrote:
You know, Sims 3's worlds generally had 60 - 120 lots. I get the feeling that the entirety of Sims 4 will have fewer lots than just one store world of Sims 3. Why is this an issue with a closed world? Or is it a size thing? I know console users are limited in size, and it's really difficult to delete/disable a pack once you buy it.

Whatever -- this is kind of ridiculous that the game can't even handle a ton of lots with a closed system.

I suppose that kills the last hope of CAW.

The question is how will they continue to develop the game for 3 years if they can't even handle world with more than 11 lots. lol it's so ridiculous. ^^

This is exactly my thoughts. If they have 3 years planned out already, I am worried to see what those 3 years will be, if they are already limiting the crud out of our worlds. 11 lots is pretty pathetic.

There are so many valid points here, that I pray a Guru reads this thread and realizes their excuse it not okay.

Not only that but people seem to be overlooking the fact that this EP recycles a lot, and I mean a lot. They have re-skinned every gameplay system in previous EP's and GP's on this. Selvadorada's temple tech was put into the changing movie studio lot, fame perks is a modified vampire perks system, reputation is a character value etc. I can totally comprehend some of them but others are just.....no.

Reputation was a whole thing in TS2, it doesn't seem like it works the same way in TS4. Sims don't have actual reputation, like the one of being a cheater, or this or that. It seems more like Mass Effect's Paragon or Renegade system.

And still there's nothing for singers/musicians they seem to be completely overlooked. Where's the recording studio? Singers and musicians can't create their own albums. Is the music table for that or for streaming music?

I know we've talked about this, but I'll reiterate. There is NOTHING wrong with re using a system. They spent develop time into it for a reason.

As long as the celebrity perks do not allow your famous sims to turn into bats, then it is not the exact same thing as vampire perks.


As for the lot size, their excuse is kind of bull plum.

The celebrity system from what ive seen looks great.

But I was told by a friend that the acting lot is hidden and the career is full of checklists, which is what we were worried about. I HATE check lists. The world is also too small, even though it's beautiful.

From what I saw the checklists are kind of just getting ready for the scene, practicing your lines, going to get clothes and your make up done.

The 'neighborhood' is also accessible after completing your work, you can hang around there, I don't know what else is there though.

"Wulfsimmer;d-949894" wrote:
So, we sacrificed open worlds for performance but now closed worlds will be smaller and smaller for performance as well?!


Also...HOW?! One lot literally loads and renders at a time so how is having more worlds going to affect this if they don't load in until you click on them. Am confused, someone explain.

i also DEMAND a proper and accurate explanation. They should show us some respect and transparency.

"Felicity;c-16792338" wrote:
Also, shouldn't it be Valley Del Sol? Del Sol Valley is really awkward.

I also think it should be Valley Del Sol... Del Sol Valley, for me as a latin language speaker, sounds like Valley Sunset Of.

"stilljustme2;c-16792555" wrote:

But you were also limited to that single world -- you couldn't travel or move from Sunset Valley to Sunlit Tides, for example, without a mod like NRaas Traveler (later they did add the ability to move from one world to another, but you lost all your previous relationships; you couldn't move to Isla Paradiso and call your folks in Riverview to catch up on family gossip). The worlds had to be big because they had to contain everything needed to play the game, including all the base game rabbit hole buildings. With Sims 4 you don't have to have every venue in every world. You can have a library in Willow Creek, a lounge in Oasis Springs, nightclub in Windenburg and karaoke bar in San Myshuno and still get to everything easily.

Well... i wish Sims 4 had "family gossip"... If you leave your family behind they are just going to get older and die, they are never going to live their lifes to have anything about to gossip.
And, as you said, there was Nraas Traveler in Sims 3, something a dev could have implemented in Sims 4 instead of forcibly attach all worlds to all packs in a single save. If they were worried of loew budget simmers not being able to play they game once it got more and more worlds, then why didnt they thought about adding the option for us to attach the worlds and dettach them if we wanted? Cuz thats not the problem... The were not thinking about porting sims 4 to consoles and thats the problem.
Are they able to update the game to add the option for us to manage which worlds we want or not in the game? I don't know, but it gets me worried that we are probably not going to get Create A World if they are not able to do that. Imagine being able to add a world to your save, but not being able to remove it later!

"Sigzy05;c-16792556" wrote:

"ChelleJo;c-16792508" wrote:

"Jordan061102;c-16792373" wrote:

"Felicity;c-16792367" wrote:
You know, Sims 3's worlds generally had 60 - 120 lots. I get the feeling that the entirety of Sims 4 will have fewer lots than just one store world of Sims 3. Why is this an issue with a closed world? Or is it a size thing? I know console users are limited in size, and it's really difficult to delete/disable a pack once you buy it.

Whatever -- this is kind of ridiculous that the game can't even handle a ton of lots with a closed system.

I suppose that kills the last hope of CAW.

The question is how will they continue to develop the game for 3 years if they can't even handle world with more than 11 lots. lol it's so ridiculous. ^^

This is exactly my thoughts. If they have 3 years planned out already, I am worried to see what those 3 years will be, if they are already limiting the crud out of our worlds. 11 lots is pretty pathetic.

There are so many valid points here, that I pray a Guru reads this thread and realizes their excuse it not okay.

Not only that but people seem to be overlooking the fact that this EP recycles a lot, and I mean a lot. They have re-skinned every gameplay system in previous EP's and GP's on this. Selvadorada's temple tech was put into the changing movie studio lot, fame perks is a modified vampire perks system, reputation is a character value etc. I can totally comprehend some of them but others are just.....no.

Reputation was a whole thing in TS2, it doesn't seem like it works the same way in TS4. Sims don't have actual reputation, like the one of being a cheater, or this or that. It seems more like Mass Effect's Paragon or Renegade system.

And still there's nothing for singers/musicians they seem to be completely overlooked. Where's the recording studio? Singers and musicians can't create their own albums. Is the music table for that or for streaming music?

PREACH! Although I think the biggest problem is not to reuse something in newer packs, the problem is just addind those reused stuff to the game. If they reused the vampire perks system, the temple tech for the changing movie studio, then why they didnt spend the extra into developing a better Reputation System when this one is clearly poor.

"ChelleJo;c-16792563" wrote:
I really hope not. Maybe I'm naive, but I prefer to believe they do love this game, at least almost as much as we do. I don't know if it's a lame budget or game limitations making these things that are clearly against most simmers wishes (snow depth, 11 lot worlds, etc) but I think they are only allowed to give a very lame excuse as to the reason. What they think will cause the least amount of waves as possible.

And what is one thing that has been complained about over and over? The lag and computer performance. So the default excuse for anything they do is "with that in mind". I think the Guru's are only doing as much as they can. I just wish we'd get real answers as to why this is happening instead of these cookie cutter excuses that feel fake to me.

Well... I think that yes, they do love the Sims franchise, but they are not using their full intelligence (not calling them dumb just pointing EA's fault) to work around problems. They just go to the easiest and cheapest (EA's fault) solutions they can think of. What would i have thought instead of shrinking the worlds size? Add the ability to manage the worlds we want to play in instead of being forced to play how they wanted us to play.
Even Sims 2 had that. You were able to add sub-neighborhoods to the main neighborhood. You could even add custom sub-neighborhoods in Sims 2, something that was not planned by EA, but the devs could have saw that potential and use it in Sims 4.

"Tiarella;c-16792574" wrote:
@ChelleJo: we're talking about a corporation, so in the end, the answer is $$$.

If we have to buy more packs to get more lots to build on, then they make more $$$.

Yes, the devs suffer from the "choosing the easiest and cheapest solution" cuz EA is not giving them the proper budget. The Sims franchise is one of the biggest franchises out in this world, and yet it is treated like a mobile game.

"ChelleJo;c-16792582" wrote:
Sadly, I do agree. As much as I hate to think it, that's the sad truth, I'm sure. Which is why I think the Guru's hands are so tied most of the time.

I feel bad about it for them. They probably love the game, and end up getting the blame for something that is out of their reach.

"Sk8rblaze;c-16792645" wrote:

"Zeldaboy180;c-16792611" wrote:

"Sigzy05;c-16792556" wrote:

"ChelleJo;c-16792508" wrote:

"Jordan061102;c-16792373" wrote:

"Felicity;c-16792367" wrote:
You know, Sims 3's worlds generally had 60 - 120 lots. I get the feeling that the entirety of Sims 4 will have fewer lots than just one store world of Sims 3. Why is this an issue with a closed world? Or is it a size thing? I know console users are limited in size, and it's really difficult to delete/disable a pack once you buy it.

Whatever -- this is kind of ridiculous that the game can't even handle a ton of lots with a closed system.

I suppose that kills the last hope of CAW.

The question is how will they continue to develop the game for 3 years if they can't even handle world with more than 11 lots. lol it's so ridiculous. ^^

This is exactly my thoughts. If they have 3 years planned out already, I am worried to see what those 3 years will be, if they are already limiting the crud out of our worlds. 11 lots is pretty pathetic.

There are so many valid points here, that I pray a Guru reads this thread and realizes their excuse it not okay.

Not only that but people seem to be overlooking the fact that this EP recycles a lot, and I mean a lot. They have re-skinned every gameplay system in previous EP's and GP's on this. Selvadorada's temple tech was put into the changing movie studio lot, fame perks is a modified vampire perks system, reputation is a character value etc. I can totally comprehend some of them but others are just.....no.

Reputation was a whole thing in TS2, it doesn't seem like it works the same way in TS4. Sims don't have actual reputation, like the one of being a cheater, or this or that. It seems more like Mass Effect's Paragon or Renegade system.

And still there's nothing for singers/musicians they seem to be completely overlooked. Where's the recording studio? Singers and musicians can't create their own albums. Is the music table for that or for streaming music?

I know we've talked about this, but I'll reiterate. There is NOTHING wrong with re using a system. They spent develop time into it for a reason.

As long as the celebrity perks do not allow your famous sims to turn into bats, then it is not the exact same thing as vampire perks.


As for the lot size, their excuse is kind of bull plum.

The celebrity system from what ive seen looks great.

But I was told by a friend that the acting lot is hidden and the career is full of checklists, which is what we were worried about. I HATE check lists. The world is also too small, even though it's beautiful.

I think this is true, only to a certain extent, however.

The Sims 2: University (EP01) released the feature of dorms. They later "recycled" this when The Sims 2: Bon Voyage released, a few expansions later, for the hotel system. Except, they it was reprogrammed enough to a point where it felt like an entirely different system. Hotels honestly felt and functioned pretty much nothing like dorms, but you could tell they were built off of one another. And, not only that, hotels were not at all the focus of the vacation pack. There was so much other content supporting this theme, that they were just a 'plus' to it all.

Later, this was done again with The Sims 2: Apartment Life, but again, it was repurposed to the point where the experience of apartments felt so different from dorms, with apartments functioning in their own way, roommates, interactions, etc. and other supporting content.

With The Sims 4, it feels nearly every expansion is recycling multiple systems, and then using that recycled content as the scope of the pack being sold. This acting career is no different from the system GTW introduced, and it's virtually all there is to this pack. Check boxes in the corner telling you exact interactions at exact times to be performed exactly when featured, otherwise your Sim fails. Zero thought by the developers, and so un-creative, but that's beside the point. The world has recycled assets all over. The new gameplay systems are not unique, and again, seem recycled. There is so much recycled content in this pack, that this pack is now deemed safe for the environment by the EPA.

There seems to be a systematic problem with EA/The Sims Studio with The Sims 4. They are unable to match the quality of content they previously released at a pace that is as reasonable for the studio/fans without taking ridiculous shortcuts. A fame expansion had far more potential than The Sims 4: Get Famous.

You're right, recycling is not the problem, but the fact that they are not exactly recycled to the point where you can't tell they were recycled. Back in Sims 2 and Sims 3 era we would never even think that something was being reused, but in Sims 4... We have recoloured assets, reused systems and much more being sold as the main thing. Thats abusive.
It feels for me that Sims 4 has less people working on it, or less budget than the previous games.

"stilljustme2;c-16792555" wrote:

"Felicity;c-16792367" wrote:
You know, Sims 3's worlds generally had 60 - 120 lots. I get the feeling that the entirety of Sims 4 will have fewer lots than just one store world of Sims 3. Why is this an issue with a closed world? Or is it a size thing? I know console users are limited in size, and it's really difficult to delete/disable a pack once you buy it.

Whatever -- this is kind of ridiculous that the game can't even handle a ton of lots with a closed system.

I suppose that kills the last hope of CAW.

But you were also limited to that single world -- you couldn't travel or move from Sunset Valley to Sunlit Tides, for example, without a mod like NRaas Traveler (later they did add the ability to move from one world to another, but you lost all your previous relationships; you couldn't move to Isla Paradiso and call your folks in Riverview to catch up on family gossip). The worlds had to be big because they had to contain everything needed to play the game, including all the base game rabbit hole buildings. With Sims 4 you don't have to have every venue in every world. You can have a library in Willow Creek, a lounge in Oasis Springs, nightclub in Windenburg and karaoke bar in San Myshuno and still get to everything easily.

Which is part of the problem, likely a big part because of the interconnection. The 'worlds' are more like towns or villages, all very different to the extent they are not even in the same general area, more like hundreds if not thousands of miles apart. If you live in Wichita, KS, how likely are you to go to New Orleans for the library, Tucson for the lounge, Bremerhaven (Germany) for the nightclub, and San Francisco for the karaoke? You're not. You might go to a town next to yours, or the closest big city for the fancy stuff, but that's it. The current set up is not only unrealistic, but could well be eating up processor power. I'm no expert on the TS4 engine (is anyone/), but have a suspicion that the TS2/3 system is the more efficient. As many others that have posted, the 'reasons' posted prior to yours seem lame. Especially compared to what we had before.

"Oldeseadogge;c-16793020" wrote:

"stilljustme2;c-16792555" wrote:

"Felicity;c-16792367" wrote:
You know, Sims 3's worlds generally had 60 - 120 lots. I get the feeling that the entirety of Sims 4 will have fewer lots than just one store world of Sims 3. Why is this an issue with a closed world? Or is it a size thing? I know console users are limited in size, and it's really difficult to delete/disable a pack once you buy it.

Whatever -- this is kind of ridiculous that the game can't even handle a ton of lots with a closed system.

I suppose that kills the last hope of CAW.

But you were also limited to that single world -- you couldn't travel or move from Sunset Valley to Sunlit Tides, for example, without a mod like NRaas Traveler (later they did add the ability to move from one world to another, but you lost all your previous relationships; you couldn't move to Isla Paradiso and call your folks in Riverview to catch up on family gossip). The worlds had to be big because they had to contain everything needed to play the game, including all the base game rabbit hole buildings. With Sims 4 you don't have to have every venue in every world. You can have a library in Willow Creek, a lounge in Oasis Springs, nightclub in Windenburg and karaoke bar in San Myshuno and still get to everything easily.

Which is part of the problem, likely a big part because of the interconnection. The 'worlds' are more like towns or villages, all very different to the extent they are not even in the same general area, more like hundreds if not thousands of miles apart. If you live in Wichita, KS, how likely are you to go to New Orleans for the library, Tucson for the lounge, Bremerhaven (Germany) for the nightclub, and San Francisco for the karaoke? You're not. You might go to a town next to yours, or the closest big city for the fancy stuff, but that's it. The current set up is not only unrealistic, but could well be eating up processor power. I'm no expert on the TS4 engine (is anyone/), but have a suspicion that the TS2/3 system is the more efficient. As many others that have posted, the 'reasons' posted prior to yours seem lame. Especially compared to what we had before.

@Oldeseadogge By the way, you get to a point that is good to talk about. For a long time developers treat different cultures just like vacation spots, as if their cultures and locals just exist for the entertainment of Americans.
If they had treated all other worlds like vacation spots (including the american / european looking ones), after you choose which one is your homeworld, we would not have to see sims who live on the other side of the planet walking around our neighborhood as if teleporting was normal.
And, to make the game run better we would be able to add the other worlds and delete them like we could in Sims 2 as sub-neighborhoods or vacation spots. They would matter for the save file and for the game performance only if they were added.
Also, we could obviously have the ability to change our homeworlds if we wanted. Or buy vacation houses... etc...

Right on! I can't help but wonder what the game would be like if it was done by folks from anywhere but California.