Feedback from Japanese Simmers: Request to make shrine worship optional

They could just make it optional or make it like they did Sims Medieval religion were they added religion but it wasn’t a real religion. They statue could just be worshiping something that doesn’t offend anyone.

"inuman;c-17707332" wrote:
So, Japanese person here. I’ll share my question around the topic that s1mszzang and simsimsimsimmer were talking a while ago in this thread.

My question is, is that actually a shinto shrine? Did someone from the team confirm it?

I’m asking because it doesn’t look like a shinto shrine to me. It looks more like Hokora (祠), a small praying place that is frequently found by the roadside or in the woods or mountains. I think most people in Japan see them as Buddhism thing, because those small spaces often has the stature of Jizou Bosatsu (地蔵菩薩), the Buddhism god who saves the underdogs and children. Or just the animism gods of the nature, like gods of mountains and such.
You can find a Wikipedia page about Hokora, and one of the photos there has 卍 which is the Buddhism simbol of auspicious omens: https://ja.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E7%A5%A0&oldid=73952530

The phasing of “worship shrine” in their blog was a big mistake. Worship is a strong word, sounds very religious. I understand it would increase tensions among Korean users who's unfamiliar with today's Japanese religion if that term was appeared in the game. But, as I said, I can't find any confirmed information that it's actually a shinto shrine.

Even though it is, there have been the thousands of popular shows/movies/animes where the characters go to shinto shrines and pray. I've never heard of accusation against them which seem to be popular among Koreans too. Needless to say, we have tons of tourists from Korea for famous shinto shrines in real life.

That's the thing that people were overreacting to a 3-second clip without any context, no one knew if they were Shinto, Hokora or Buddhist shrines. So the removal of the interaction (and now the shrine itself) has been baffling to many players.

I am very disappointed in EA for their handling of this case.
Is the Sims world a world where freedom of religion is not allowed either?
The removal of shrines themselves and the removal of the action of visiting shrines has severely hurt the hearts of Japanese people.

We Japanese people visit shrines on New Year's Day to give thanks for the old year and make wishes to the gods for a good new year.
At the Shichi-Go-San ceremony, we celebrate the child's safe upbringing with everyone, pay a visit to the gods and ancestors who have watched over the child and express our gratitude to them, and pray for his or her healthy growth in the future.
To protect themselves from the misfortune that may befall them, they visit shrines and pray for good health.
At a wedding ceremony, the couple pledges in front of the gods to share in the hardships of life, to build a happy and joyful family, and to ensure the prosperity of their offspring.

In this way, shrines are deeply rooted in the life and culture of the Japanese people, and they are not a symbol of war.
At the very least, if they don't want to visit a shrine, they should give users the option to "ban religious activities" or something similar.
I think it's an extreme decision to take it away from everyone.

@inuman

I can't identify a god just by the appearance of the Hokora.
In the first place, this should not be a shrine to any of the gods of the real world, Shinto or Buddhism or any other deity. I think it's clear that this is a shrine to the gods of the Sims world.
I don't think it mattered much to Korean users what they were worshipping, I think it mattered that the shape of the shrine was reminiscent of trauma. I think that can be taken into consideration.

An animated film containing a shrine contents is being aired on Korean Broadcasting , the theater is being packed with visitors, Koreans go to the shrine in Japan tour to wish good luck and have a New Year's morning event there, middle school or high school students go on a school trip to Shrine as a group. I just don't understand why this is happening.

https://i.imgur.com/vGk1cUO.png

The sim is directly paying respect to a shrine but the cave itself is an object? The shrine perhaps can be pull out from build buy and when you click on it sim should be able to bow?

https://i.imgur.com/ZYtUMqi.png

Simguru didn't say the bowing interaction was removed, its said only you can't have it in SE world.

*edit- I better not posting images pertaining meaning to any religion.

"inuman;c-17707485" wrote:
@simsimsimsimmer
> the shape of the shrine was reminiscent of trauma.

That's highly unlikely. In Korea, there are many Buddhism temples look quite similar with the ones in Japan, and the one in the game. For instance, this is the Monasteries in Korea:
https://whc.unesco.org/en/list/1562/gallery/&maxrows=15

And as I said before, there are so many Korean turists for the shrines here in Japan.

In Korea, there is a building (성황당 seong hwang dang (城隍堂) ) similar to the shrine Japan. It is not a Buddhist building, but a Korean superstition culture wishing to mountain gods or to any gods in the world. They believe every natural things have spirits.

example)

1.

Link

2.
https://mblogthumb-phinf.pstatic.net/20121219_295/othugi_1355894519480w3kaN_JPEG/d1-21kg30706007.jpg?type=w2
link


3.
https://img.seoul.co.kr/img/upload/2017/11/17/SSI_20171117170717_O2.jpg
This door looks very similar to torii in Japan even.

https://img.seoul.co.kr//img/upload/2017/11/17/SSI_20171117170656.jpg
산령각(山靈閣)-->a building dedicated to the spirits of the mountain.

link

4.
https://img.khan.co.kr/news/2020/10/21/l_2020102201002187900188081.jpg
link
원주 성황림은 마을의 신성구역이다. 마을 사람들은 이곳에서 길흉화복에 관한 기도를 올렸다. 신목에 둘러싸인 당집 앞 금줄엔 소원을 적은 한지를 내걸었다. 마을 사람들의 여러 추억이 서린 곳이기도 하다.
Seonghwang is a sacred area of the village. The villagers prayed here for their luck. A gold string in front of a shrine surrounded by Korean paper with wishes written on it. It is also a place where many memories of the villagers are kept.

성황림의 고갱이 같은 이 공간에서 마을 사람들은 재앙을 막고, 병을 쫓아내며, 길한 것들을 품으려는 기도를 올렸다. 인간의 바람을 하늘에 전하는 행위는 지금도 이어진다. 당집 앞으로 20여m 떨어진 곳에도 금줄을 둘렀다. 신목과 당집이 신성구역임을 알리는 표시다. 소원을 적은 한지 쪼가리를 새끼줄 매듭 사이 걸어뒀다. 방문객들에게도 기회를 준다. 요즘 사람들은 주로 큰돈을 벌고, 건강하게 살게 해달라고 소원한다
In this place like SeongHwang in the Great Forest, the villagers prayed to prevent disaster, to drive away disease, and to bear good things. The act of conveying human wishes to heaven continues to this day. It also wore a gold cord about 20 meters away from it's seonghwang. It is a sign that the sacred tree and the shrine(당집 in Korean) are sacred areas. A piece of hanji(korean paper) with a wish hung between rope knots. It also gives visitors a chance.

마을 사람들은 숲의 영험한 기운을 믿는 듯하다. 성황림엔 자체 발원하는 샘물이 흐른다. 겨울에도 얼지 않는다. 고씨는 “봄이면 샘물 덕에 초본 식물이 꽃동산을 이룬다. 전염병이나 나쁜 기운을 막는 마을 지킴이 역할을 한다”고 말했다. 사람들은 이 샘물을 약수라고 불렀다. 피부병과 위장병에 효험이 있다는 경험담이 전해진다.
The villagers seem to believe in the spiritual energy of the forest. In Seonghwan, spring water that originates itself flows. It doesn't freeze even in winter. Ko said, "In spring, the herbaceous plants form flower gardens thanks to spring water. It acts as a village guardian to prevent epidemics or bad energy. People called this spring mineral water. It is said that it is effective for skin diseases and stomach diseases.


https://i.ibb.co/0rVVvRn/Screenshot-20201022-143836-Chrome.jpg


Building structure, believing in mountain spirits, the belief that the 성황당城隍堂 당집(shrine) in the prevention of bad luck and good luck in the village, paper with wishes written on strings.... Isn't it too similar?
It is just so amazing Korea and Japan has similar tradition.

Korea (((hugs))) Japan

Shrines come in all shapes and sizes, so for the Japanese, the first video looked like a shrine. I think most Japanese shimmers understand that it's a spiritial object in the Sims world and not a Shinto shrine (except for protesters who haven't played a Sims game).

The fact that it was erected in a world inspired by Japan, and worship was removed due to protests over issues related to the shrine, is the starting point for our Japanese Shimmer protests.
The stone statue (or 道祖神/Dōsojin) in the new video is more ambiguous in its religious elements, as detailed in the Wiki, but there are many different types in different regions, so it can't be described as a Buddhist Shinto religion all together. It is more animistic .

I believe the stone statue in the new video is in the snowy mountain area YUKIMATSU. It's a constantly snow-covered area and the Sims are wearing climbing clothes.
I believe the shrine in the first video is in the SENBAMACHI area with the torii markings (if the shrine is still there). The Sims are lightly dressed and the caves and terrain look different.
I don't know if there will be snow in SENBAMACHI or not. I don't think they will make a trailer for the play video with the Seasons pack in it.

With the first change they quickly replaced the first video. If this was a change from the shrine to a stone statue, they may have forgotten to replace the first video. If they did change it, this would be the second time.
But it's all speculation and we won't find out until we watch the live streaming.

We continue to need an honest announcement from EA. Before the discussion gets too extreme.
(It's very serious that some posts are being deleted. Thank you all for your consideration in this thread)

I hope they really just removed the bowing interaction and that it's still possible to leave some food offerings or toss a coin and have some wish fulfilled.

@inuman
I understand your point well. I love that suggestion too! I think it's one of several optimal solutions. :)
Your agenda is well spoken of in the Japanese community. There are people from all over the world with many different ideas and ways of playing The Sims.
This is a thread I asked you to build for the purpose of giving EA feedback on the "REQUEST TO MAKE SHRINE WORSHIP OPTIONAL" of the Japanese.
We needed a subject to create a thread, but I personally think there are many different requests that can be made.
The same is true for the petition that is being gathered. That's not the same as a topic request, but it's one big voice.
But if it gets heated away from the subject of the thread and into another discussion, it tends to get deleted too quickly.
I may be a bit oversensitive, but that's what worries me. :'(