Forum Discussion
- icemanfreshSeasoned Newcomer
"Writin_Reg;c-16207402" wrote:
"icmnfrsh;c-16207375" wrote:
"sundaysimmer;c-16207252" wrote:
"Simsfan99111;c-16207138" wrote:
The one ep a year thing is such a pain especially when your still waiting for something that really gets you excited and interests you.
Agreed.
I just don't get it - the demand for more than one EP per year is definitely there. So why not have two EP teams and produce more EPs? Simmers would be happier and EA would make more money. Am I missing something?
Agreed.
I hear the problem with the Salt Lake and Redwood teams in Sims 3 was that it was harder to have inter-pack connectivity/gameplay because two packs were developed in parallel without much coordination.
But why not have multiple teams working closely together to churn out 2 packs a year? Just have a few leads oversee both teams to make sure everything is coordinated smoothly.
The game packs are a welcome addition in terms of gameplay, but two game packs don't have as much content as an EP IMO. They're focused, which is good, but not exactly a replacement for an EP. An EP should be more than the sum of its parts, so apart from offering a wide variety of content, they all need to be tightly integrated to form a cohesive whole.
Ep teams involve about 40 people - you need the experienced people, the matching equipment and the space to add that many more people. It's not an easy task. Maxis is already a big studio. If it was an easy thing to do, they would not have set up a second studio in another state even just to add that other ep team, nor would they done it had it not been for the store team already working there.
That's also true. And I know that you can't just introduce tons of inexperienced people in the middle of a software project due to the overhead. But if The Sims 4 truly is doing well in sales, it would be nice if they could gradually expand the team and resources to give it the attention it deserves. Whether that's fixing up all the bugs without introducing too many side effects or adding more content, I'm fine with either. - icemanfreshSeasoned NewcomerIt could be the sales. TS4 might not have done as well in the earlier years, and maybe that factored into the reduction of resources.
I think the slower pace could also be due to growing pains. The Sims 4 is built on top of a new engine after all. And with every piece of content, they need to make sure it integrates into the multitasking and emotion systems, among other things.
I guess I can only speculate as to why we have fewer EPs, and whether they could scale up just like the old days. I just really crave the excitement of novelty. :p Even back in the Sims 2 days when they'd already have a teaser for the next EP included with a newly-released one, which was so exhilarating. "icmnfrsh;c-16207428" wrote:
It could be the sales. TS4 might not have done as well in the earlier years, and maybe that factored into the reduction of resources.
I think the slower pace could also be due to growing pains. The Sims 4 is built on top of a new engine after all. And with every piece of content, they need to make sure it integrates into the multitasking and emotion systems, among other things.
I guess I can only speculate as to why we have fewer EPs, and whether they could scale up just like the old days. I just really crave the excitement of novelty. :p Even back in the Sims 2 days when they'd already have a teaser for the next EP included with a newly-released one, which was so exhilarating.
To understand it we have to consider how decisions about such things most likely are taken inside a company such as EA?
Many simmers here seem to think that everything are decided just by the developers who then should be able to do just what they want. But the developers are only specialized in making (a part of) the game. They aren’t either experts in marking nor economy and they aren’t responsible for such things either. So instead it is EA’s top managers who make such decisions. Those top managers decide both the number of expansions, the types of expansions and the budget and the number of employees working on each expansion.
The top managers don’t take such decisions without consulting other people though. They meet with marketing analyzers to discuss sales numbers and marketing strategies and apparently before the development of TS4 those discussions had the result that it might be a good marketing strategy to replace some of the big EPs with smaller expansions and especially SPs. Then I am sure there also were meetings with the executive producer for TS4 and likely also the top game designer participated in those meetings where EA’s top introduced the idea about less big EPs and more smaller and cheaper expansions for TS4. The problem then must have been that if EA mainly only was selling SPs (which seemed to be a better idea than the Sims 3 online store to sell stuff had been) then some simmers likely would stop playing because they would need new gameplay too. So in the discussion the idea of GPs likely came up as some kind of halfprice EPs to be the main expansions to add new gameplay. Beside this they also came up with the idea to add just a minimal amount of new gameplay to the SPs too because that could be a good way of improving their sales numbers. When the meetings ended and nobody had anything to add EA’s top manager then decided that this would be the way to go (and maybe discussed it with other top managers though) before the budgets for the Sims 4 and each of its expansions finally was decided.
The executive producer and the top game designer then just had to make sure that the game and its expansions were made according to EA’s instructions and told the other producers, game designers and developers how to do this.- sundaysimmerNew Spectator
"Erpe;c-16207345" wrote:
"sundaysimmer;c-16207252" wrote:
"Simsfan99111;c-16207138" wrote:
The one ep a year thing is such a pain especially when your still waiting for something that really gets you excited and interests you.
Agreed.
I just don't get it - the demand for more than one EP per year is definitely there. So why not have two EP teams and produce more EPs? Simmers would be happier and EA would make more money. Am I missing something?
EA obviously disagrees about that and EA closed the Salt Lake Studio down because EA didn’t think that this studio was needed anymore even though they made 2 EPs for TS3 in 2012 and again 2 EPs for TS3 in 2013.
The reason for this can in my opinion only be that GPs and especially SPs are much cheaper to make and they sell just as well anyway. GPs were an experiment and in the beginning EA only released 1 GP each year. But now EA’s plan seems to be to release 2 GPs, 4 SPs and 1 EP each year. Also EA seems to be able to do that easily even though EA now only has the Redwood Studio and that studio is working on the Sims Mobile and likely also TS5 at the same time. So EA seems to have been able to reduce the size of the number of developers and still release about as much as earlier because all those SPs are so easy, fast and cheap to make.
Yes theoritically EA could release even more GPs and EPs each year. But if EA did that then sales numbers for the many SPs would probably go down so much that it wouldn’t be profitable for EA anyway.
You make a good point. I suppose it makes sense that more than one EP per year could make the sales numbers of GPs and SPs go down. But just reading forum posts about how many of us feel starved for content makes me think that might not necessarily be the case. Yes, there are more GPs released per year now than there used to be but it still doesn't seem like it's meeting the demand."icmnfrsh;c-16207375" wrote:
"sundaysimmer;c-16207252" wrote:
"Simsfan99111;c-16207138" wrote:
The one ep a year thing is such a pain especially when your still waiting for something that really gets you excited and interests you.
Agreed.
I just don't get it - the demand for more than one EP per year is definitely there. So why not have two EP teams and produce more EPs? Simmers would be happier and EA would make more money. Am I missing something?
Agreed.
I hear the problem with the Salt Lake and Redwood teams in Sims 3 was that it was harder to have inter-pack connectivity/gameplay because two packs were developed in parallel without much coordination.
But why not have multiple teams working closely together to churn out 2 packs a year? Just have a few leads oversee both teams to make sure everything is coordinated smoothly.
The game packs are a welcome addition in terms of gameplay, but two game packs don't have as much content as an EP IMO. They're focused, which is good, but not exactly a replacement for an EP. An EP should be more than the sum of its parts, so apart from offering a wide variety of content, they all need to be tightly integrated to form a cohesive whole.
That's exactly what I think. GPs are great since they allow players to pick what they want in their games rather than having to spend more money on content they don't necessarily want. But for overall progression of the game (if that makes sense), more frequent releases of EPs are needed. (At least that's what it feels like for me. I realize that all of us feel differently about just how much DLC is appropriate/needed.)"icmnfrsh;c-16207420" wrote:
"Writin_Reg;c-16207402" wrote:
"icmnfrsh;c-16207375" wrote:
"sundaysimmer;c-16207252" wrote:
"Simsfan99111;c-16207138" wrote:
The one ep a year thing is such a pain especially when your still waiting for something that really gets you excited and interests you.
Agreed.
I just don't get it - the demand for more than one EP per year is definitely there. So why not have two EP teams and produce more EPs? Simmers would be happier and EA would make more money. Am I missing something?
Agreed.
I hear the problem with the Salt Lake and Redwood teams in Sims 3 was that it was harder to have inter-pack connectivity/gameplay because two packs were developed in parallel without much coordination.
But why not have multiple teams working closely together to churn out 2 packs a year? Just have a few leads oversee both teams to make sure everything is coordinated smoothly.
The game packs are a welcome addition in terms of gameplay, but two game packs don't have as much content as an EP IMO. They're focused, which is good, but not exactly a replacement for an EP. An EP should be more than the sum of its parts, so apart from offering a wide variety of content, they all need to be tightly integrated to form a cohesive whole.
Ep teams involve about 40 people - you need the experienced people, the matching equipment and the space to add that many more people. It's not an easy task. Maxis is already a big studio. If it was an easy thing to do, they would not have set up a second studio in another state even just to add that other ep team, nor would they done it had it not been for the store team already working there.
That's also true. And I know that you can't just introduce tons of inexperienced people in the middle of a software project due to the overhead. But if The Sims 4 truly is doing well in sales, it would be nice if they could gradually expand the team and resources to give it the attention it deserves. Whether that's fixing up all the bugs without introducing too many side effects or adding more content, I'm fine with either.
That's what I don't understand. Granted, my perspective is based on this forum, which of course doesn't represent the entire community. So the demand for more EPs might not actually be there.
What it comes down to is that I wish EA wasn't as secretive about their business decisions as they are. Communication is everything. - @jackjack_k , I just wanted to know if you feel alright and or if you have a temperature? ;) You are not usually this critical of TS4 or the gurus. But back on topic, Salt Lake City was very much a part of 'Maxis' and it's news to fans they were not really "Maxis" since Maxis has been saying they were for years now, lol. That's where TSM and Guru Daniel were and ohters who worked on The Sims Medieval and they worked on Seasons in TS2 IIRC and a few other TS2 EPs along with TS3 EPs. It's funny how the inclusion of Salt Lake and other cities gets changed years later to tell us ( by Maxis) they were not Maxis, it's like whatever suits their current story they want to tell us.
- .
"catloverplayer;c-16202317" wrote:
"Deshong04;c-16201572" wrote:
"Yoko2112;c-16199135" wrote:
>says we get awesome, free stuff
>mentions pools and toddlers as examples, failing to realize that they are core features for a Sims game
>says they used to do only one expansion per year and a few stuff packs during TS3 times
https://i.imgur.com/hm57sV5.png
>fails to mention ( although divisive ) frequent store sets
>says they avoid crunch ( which is healthy ) but when you look at the half baked content riddled with bugs that they release you wonder if they take 3 spa breaks a week and let their inexperienced interns handle the coding
>says how well packs work combined with each other and conveniently mentions retail as the only feature that heavily makes use of that ( because otherwise the feature would be useless )
>retail is still broken as of this moment
>other similarly combinable features like GT clubs have seen less and less support over the year
Golly gee, I can't wait to see what the future holds.
If TS4 is doing so well, then why lie about TS3? To attempt to falsely justify the new less is more business model?
TS1(7 Expansion Packs)
https://s25.postimg.org/hrn0ovoqn/TS1_Exp.png
TS2 (8 Expansions Packs)
https://s25.postimg.org/b16jfgh0f/TS2_Exp.png
TS3 (11 Expansion Packs)
TS4 (4 Expansion Packs)
https://s25.postimg.org/diiamrycv/TS4_Exp.png"MidnightAura;c-16199307" wrote:
I wish they would stop talking about toddlers and pools and act like giving them free was the most generous act ever. It isn't. As said already it's base game content that should have been there at launch. As already mentioned the Sims 3 had more than one expansion a year and it shows. From the interview Grant implies they are making more content for this game then previously. All I see is expansions being served on a smaller plate with key features being served as separate dishes.
The only way for game companies to learn is to hit them where it hurts...no quality game = no profit. Unfortunately, TS4 must be that grand for some to refuse standing up for their own consumer rights and demand what they deserve or goodbye. It doesn't matter though, just as long it's not me. I've already accepted the future of The Sims is dead. Will Wright's legacy was amazing while it lasted through the years 2000-2013. What an amazing ride it's been. :mrgreen: <3
TS1 thru 3 didn't have Gamepacks either.
True but TS1-TS3 are still rich in gameplay even though TS1 only have EP's. Point is, with everything TS4 includes EP's, SP's and GP's it still feels incomplete...insignificant compared to previous entries.
A game series is meant to grow, expand, innovate, improve and advance while keeping onto everything that's considered a great/best feature by the majority.
At first there was just TS1 but then TS2 topped that and then TS3 kind of for the most part topped that and then TS4 came along which just tore down the growing foundation and retrogressed. Now let that happen to any other popular game series and see if the majority won't rebel and instantly stop supporting poor business decisions and a lack of respect for fans. Fans that actually helped got The Sims to this point and made it successful in the first place.
Anyway, TS4 base game is severely lacking and everything being sold or so called free is basically giving back what should have been there in the first place. The same appears true with even EP's as well. The only point of GP's seems to be just to bring in extra money with little effort. But that's just my feelings. - Sigh....Let Sims 4 just come and go
"Simsfan99111;c-16207138" wrote:
The one ep a year thing is such a pain especially when your still waiting for something that really gets you excited and interests you.
It is painfully slow. Part of the reason why I hope the Sims 4 ends in the normal life cycle in 2019 for a Sims game. I'm ready for a new base game with a different release schedule with a different focus than what the Sims 4 has had with CAS focused packs. I want to see EPs redeem themselves with the franchise. I've never been a fan of SPs and Sims 4 focusing mainly on those packs than the other packs makes it a real downer when coming up with ideas for the Sims 4 given how limited the scope packs are this iteration. Hopefully GPs will replace SPs for the next iteration and we will see 2 EPs released per year again. I don't think anyone can honestly say $40 worth of SPs offers the same amount of gameplay a $40 EP offers even if EPs haven't impressed me this iteration. Game packs have exceeded my expectations so I wouldn't mind if that pack type continues with future Sims iterations. So I am hopeful for the Sims future and seeing the franchise grow some more. At least the gender patch was a push in expanding the franchise and nice seeing more grown up toddlers this time around.
Anyways good article despite the goof up of the Sims 3 EP release schedule being not correct. I hope that 2018 does impress me more than 2017 did and brings some sort of real transportation into the game, so here is hoping for Sims 2 type of cars that pull out of driveways and have fun interactions again while still exceeding my expectations for them for the Sims 4. I would love if Sims could use the ferry and streetcar as transportation too."Scobre;c-16212914" wrote:
"Simsfan99111;c-16207138" wrote:
The one ep a year thing is such a pain especially when your still waiting for something that really gets you excited and interests you.
It is painfully slow. Part of the reason why I hope the Sims 4 ends in the normal life cycle in 2019 for a Sims game. I'm ready for a new base game with a different release schedule with a different focus than what the Sims 4 has had with CAS focused packs. I want to see EPs redeem themselves with the franchise. I've never been a fan of SPs and Sims 4 focusing mainly on those packs than the other packs makes it a real downer when coming up with ideas for the Sims 4 given how limited the scope packs are this iteration. Hopefully GPs will replace SPs for the next iteration and we will see 2 EPs released per year again. I don't think anyone can honestly say $40 worth of SPs offers the same amount of gameplay a $40 EP offers even if EPs haven't impressed me this iteration. Game packs have exceeded my expectations so I wouldn't mind if that pack type continues with future Sims iterations. So I am hopeful for the Sims future and seeing the franchise grow some more. At least the gender patch was a push in expanding the franchise and nice seeing more grown up toddlers this time around.
Anyways good article despite the goof up of the Sims 3 EP release schedule being not correct. I hope that 2018 does impress me more than 2017 did and brings some sort of real transportation into the game, so here is hoping for Sims 2 type of cars that pull out of driveways and have fun interactions again while still exceeding my expectations for them for the Sims 4. I would love if Sims could use the ferry and streetcar as transportation too.
Alas I don’t see it likely that the number of yearly EPs will increase in the future or that SPs will be replaced by GPs because this hasn't been the tendency at all :( Instead the tendency has been:
1. More and more SPs and stuff replacing new gameplay.
2. EPs being more and more replaced by GPs.
So I fear that TS5 won’t get EPs at all.
If I should guess about other new things in TS5 it would be:
1. More online options.
2. More options for ingame purchases such that some of the free content now will be sold as ingame purchases instead.
3. SPs could maybe at least partly be replaced by ingame purchases.
4. GPs as the main expansions. But maybe with more stuff and less new gameplay in them.
I don’t like stuff myself. But for a company like EA everything depends on costs and sales numbers. Stuff is many times cheaper for EA to add than new gameplay is because new gameplay requires a lot of programming, testing and bug fixing. Stuff mainly only requires artists. So stuff can be made much faster than new gameplay and with much fewer developers working on it. So when simmers just buy stuff just as much as new gameplay then EA will always give stuff much higher priority than new gameplay. No surprise there! I would just wish that there wasn’t so extremely many simmers who just buy all the SPs too...
The low priority of EPs can in my opinion only be caused by lower sales numbers for them which again must be caused by their higher price which makes it difficult for especially very young simmers (who need their parents to pay the bill) to get them. This problem has only become bigger when everything now is sold as digital downloads which makes it hard for young simmers to get EPs as presents for birthdays of Christmas too.
So it doesn’t really surprise me that EA’s main strategy now is “more, but cheaper expansions and with more stuff and less gameplay”. I just don’t like this strategy at all :(Now that the Pets expansion is out, what's the plan moving forwards?
Historically, after pets people are like: 'Okay, we did the big pack, now we're going to think about something else. I want players to still be around because we are still making killer content. We're not going away. Pets is the biggest one but we're not going to dial it back. Some of the stuff we are thinking about is pretty ambitious, it's also fresh twists on old things and so I am hoping that people see Pets as the start of the second wave, not the end of the cycle. I want to do more content, keep upping the bar, more free content. Those are things that are super important to us and we have been talking about stuff for next year for ages already because we want it to be super good. There's crazy long cycles. Next year I want people to be like: 'Wow, I can't believe you're doing all this stuff'. Next year we'll be four years old and still here.
Sweet!
About The Sims 4 General Discussion
Join lively discussions, share tips, and exchange experiences on Sims 4 Expansion Packs, Game Packs, Stuff Packs & Kits.33,079 PostsLatest Activity: 15 hours ago
Related Posts
Recent Discussions
- 10 minutes ago