Kids need to stop cleaning autonomously

I would much rather have them cleaning than making messes.

"SimChessack;c-16626540" wrote:

"JoAnne65;c-16626292" wrote:
Sims with certain traits do. Which means traits matter and form personalities. I love that, being able to choose whether my sims do that or not. And if it really bothers you, you can simply direct them to the sink and they will wash their hands. It’s just really lame for me when the game dictates things. If there’s something I hate: that.

I think the problem with Sims 4 is that too many autonomous behaviors are not tied to traits. Instead of making "do nothing regarding this interaction" the default and then making them automatic with certain traits, the default is "do this task" and then don't do it with specific traits. This has the effect that in Sims 3, unless you had a "neat" Sim, you didn't see her automatically making her bed or washing her hands, but in Sims 4, unless you have a sloppy sim, you will see her do that. Because there are so many traits, odds are small that you will see the auto behavior except very occasionally, which makes the Sims in Sims 4 seem more "the same" and less individual.

Yes. Must add that for me it's a fine line where it comes to autonomous behaviour. I play with free will enabled so I must like it to some extent, I love surprises in the game, but I don't like it if it hinders me in storylines (sims hugging each other that shouldn't in my imagination) or personalities (I don't think sloppy sims in 4 don't make their beds...?; if they don't that would certainly make a difference).

"ldmarko;c-16627492" wrote:
I would much rather have them cleaning than making messes.

I would rather have some sims cleaning and others making a mess. I play both kind of personalities in Sims 3. I love it that the household of my artist always looked like a mess and the house of his daughter always spot on and neat.

I remember years ago there was a Legacy Simmer who used to let her Legacies go mostly on their own. She would run the game while she was doing house work or reading a book, and "check in on them" from time to time, perhaps redirecting them to a skill she wanted them to learn or what have you. She enjoyed the surprises that could occur in earlier Sims games over just what the Sims would do when left to their own devices.

I don't know if you could successfully do that with Sims 4. Left to their own devices for long periods of time, I expect most Sims would end up doing the same things. I can pretty much guarantee you wouldn't see arguments, fights, or anything surprising like that.

Really the only autonomous behavior I've seen so far that has surprised me has been the spare 2nd gen child who when he turned teen got "hates children" and twice went out of his way to break his niece's doll house when I wasn't looking. Leaving her crying over it. That was interesting but it's very rare in TS 4.

"JoAnne65;c-16626292" wrote:


I think the problem with Sims 4 is that too many autonomous behaviors are not tied to traits. Instead of making "do nothing regarding this interaction" the default and then making them automatic with certain traits, the default is "do this task" and then don't do it with specific traits. This has the effect that in Sims 3, unless you had a "neat" Sim, you didn't see her automatically making her bed or washing her hands, but in Sims 4, unless you have a sloppy sim, you will see her do that. Because there are so many traits, odds are small that you will see the auto behavior except very occasionally, which makes the Sims in Sims 4 seem more "the same" and less individual.

I think you've diagnosed one of the big problems with the Sims 4. The autonomous behaviors conflict with the traits. And I also don't think the traits are strong enough to override the behaviors. I wonder if adding more than 3 traits would make a more definite difference?

"bixters;c-16629639" wrote:

"JoAnne65;c-16626292" wrote:


I think the problem with Sims 4 is that too many autonomous behaviors are not tied to traits. Instead of making "do nothing regarding this interaction" the default and then making them automatic with certain traits, the default is "do this task" and then don't do it with specific traits. This has the effect that in Sims 3, unless you had a "neat" Sim, you didn't see her automatically making her bed or washing her hands, but in Sims 4, unless you have a sloppy sim, you will see her do that. Because there are so many traits, odds are small that you will see the auto behavior except very occasionally, which makes the Sims in Sims 4 seem more "the same" and less individual.

I think you've diagnosed one of the big problems with the Sims 4. The autonomous behaviors conflict with the traits. And I also don't think the traits are strong enough to override the behaviors. I wonder if adding more than 3 traits would make a more definite difference?

I think something went wrong with the quoting, @SimChessack said that ;) I do agree with it though.

"Writin_Reg;c-16629771" wrote:

"JoAnne65;c-16629361" wrote:

"SimChessack;c-16626540" wrote:

"JoAnne65;c-16626292" wrote:
Sims with certain traits do. Which means traits matter and form personalities. I love that, being able to choose whether my sims do that or not. And if it really bothers you, you can simply direct them to the sink and they will wash their hands. It’s just really lame for me when the game dictates things. If there’s something I hate: that.

I think the problem with Sims 4 is that too many autonomous behaviors are not tied to traits. Instead of making "do nothing regarding this interaction" the default and then making them automatic with certain traits, the default is "do this task" and then don't do it with specific traits. This has the effect that in Sims 3, unless you had a "neat" Sim, you didn't see her automatically making her bed or washing her hands, but in Sims 4, unless you have a sloppy sim, you will see her do that. Because there are so many traits, odds are small that you will see the auto behavior except very occasionally, which makes the Sims in Sims 4 seem more "the same" and less individual.

Yes. Must add that for me it's a fine line where it comes to autonomous behaviour. I play with free will enabled so I must like it to some extent, I love surprises in the game, but I don't like it if it hinders me in storylines (sims hugging each other that shouldn't in my imagination) or personalities (I don't think sloppy sims in 4 don't make their beds...?; if they don't that would certainly make a difference).

"ldmarko;c-16627492" wrote:
I would much rather have them cleaning than making messes.

I would rather have some sims cleaning and others making a mess. I play both kind of personalities in Sims 3. I love it that the household of my artist always looked like a mess and the house of his daughter always spot on and neat.

Perhaps some of us like our Sims homes neat - so if sims are neat it does not bother us - but if they are not it would get on our last nerve. I am one of those people.

My real life kids are neat for two reasons - they were raised that way including taught to wash their little hands after toilet use from the minute they were toilet trained and they still do it as adults and taught their kids to do likewise.
In sims 2 and 3 it drove me nuts sims did not do that on their own so I always made them - even though I am aware they are pixels and don't have germs - it would get on my nerves if they did not clean their hands. So I was and still am literally thrilled m Sims do that on their own, as well as make their beds as soon as they get up. I have been like that all my life and my kids were taught to be like me.

I also never make sims with a slob trait - never. Believe me kids making messes with paints in the game gets on my nerves.

Neat kids, neat Sims, beds always made, dishes done, not a lot of clutter - are things I prefer and the way I live, so I am glad the sims finally are this way - because in my world and my real life these Sims are like real people.

So not everyone thinks it is unrealistic - as it is the way I live and people I know live. I am glad we can have both ways without me having to always make my sims wash their hands and such. That it is a natural thing to do. I also think Parenthood pack tends to help our young Sims be more inclined to clean and such - as I noticed child Sims did not do a lot of those things on their own until we got that pack - except the handwashing, dishwashing, and bed making thing.

I don’t quite follow your post I’m afraid. If you like your sims’ homes neat, you simply create sims that are neat or perfectionists. Sims 3 has two more traits to give so that’s no sacrifice. Some of us on the other hand who don’t necessarily like all their sims’ homes neat won’t be able to make a sim that is a slob in Sims 4. That’s the subject of this topic. In one game every simmer can have it the way they want, in the next not every simmer can.

I agree. They should only do that once they actually get the traits. Kids are rarely naturally neat, and they should only clean when their parents make them to it (or if they wanted to complete a scout badge, but apparently, they don't care at all about scout badges as they never have any whims related to them).

Bah, the way Sims behave in this game makes no sense.

I was talking about this recently somewhere else. I did have one kid grow up with the irresponsible trait but it was because I playing a legacy save with a lot of kids. Sometimes, well, nearly every day, the kids would go off to school and end up right back at home. I guess it happens when you have several sims leaving the lot at the same time. So this one got the irresponsible trait by "skipping" school (even though he went) every day. When I got to the last generation of this legacy, I wanted all the kids to grow up with negative character values. I wanted them to make messes, have bad manners, be irresponsible, everything. It was a real struggle forcing them to have bad manners. For every good mannered thing I saw them do, I'd counter it with two bad mannered things.

I even have Scumbumbo's tuner installed and no matter how many dish washing or plate collecting, puddle mopping interactions I thought I'd squashed, one more would always take it's place. For instance if they're going to make a mess on the floor, they're hardly going to clean up after themselves right away. So I removed that. Then I saw the kids mopping puddles of water. Thought I got rid of it, then I found two more puddle interactions (big/small). Then the thing with washing dishes, taking out trash. I never did get those kids to completely get their values in the negative. I deleted their homework books and sold school projects so they wouldn't build up responsibility, but I think the only one who ever actually maxed it out and carried it into adulthood was that one I wasn't trying to make misbehave. The one who "skipped" school but wasn't.

As far as RL, my mother was a neatnik and she worked as a cleaner too. She did ask us to do light chores, but not mopping floors or doing laundry. Vacuuming, tidying up after ourselves, put toys away, that sort of thing. As a kid, I would never do a dish or clean something unless I was told to. My mother preferred to do all the cleaning herself, she thought nobody would be able to do as good of a job as her, so she would ask us to dust or something. Every now and again she'd take me to work at night cleaning offices and she'd have me do windows or wipe down phones, light switches, empty trash. I think I would have been about 8 or 9 ish? Again, things I did because my mother asked me to, nothing I would have done on my own.

I didn't start using the washer and dryer until I was in my teens,but I did help fold clothes when I was younger.

So I agree, I think if players want their kids to do these chores, maybe have it trait based or have the kid start truly neutral and not do these things autonomously unless they're encouraged to do them several times before they begin. I don't like having character values pushed on my kids. Sometimes I want perfect angels, sometimes I want spawns of Satan, lol.

Kids do chores. I think it is reasonable.

When I was that age, my parents had me doing a pile of chores.

"Anthonydyer;c-16631988" wrote:
Kids do chores. I think it is reasonable.

When I was that age, my parents had me doing a pile of chores.

Which means you didn’t do it autonomously :#

"JoAnne65;c-16632051" wrote:
Which means you didn’t do it autonomously

Wellll.... I did after enough training. My mother taught me to make my bed when I was in like 1st grade, and I don't know how long it took to "stick" but I know by 2nd grade and thereafter I was doing it on my own. I make my bed every morning to this day. Lots of adults I know don't bother to do that. And seeing as how I live alone, if I never made it, no one would know. But I still make it every morning without fail.

I also learned to take the garbage out when it was full instead of expecting someone else to do it. And that the lawn had to be mowed no less often than every two weeks (and if I let it go, I would get yelled at, so I did it autonomously to pre-empt that).

I don't really mind if some kids autonomously do some chores, especially after good parenting. But it is rather silly to have a kid who just spun into child age from toddler, first thing she does is clean up the table without anyone ever teaching her to do that -- and she doesn't have the 'neat' or 'good' traits.