THREAD CLOSED

"logion;c-17148875" wrote:
Pretty as an ocean, deep as a puddle.

Perfectly said.

"Writin_Reg;c-17148802" wrote:

"Cinebar;c-17148752" wrote:
Turtle eggs, cute, but does this game actually need more happy moodlets? Does it? I mean really, does it. Collectibles, does the game need more? Does this game need to keep collecting for busy work, because there is no actual game play? Fill up the inventory! yay, isn't that a reason TS4 lags according to some smart people? Does the Sim care the inventory is being filled up? Busy work isn't gameplay, it's fluff to hide the lack of gameplay. Off the grid, isn't that a patched option? Isn't WB just as good to live off the grid? Oh, wait you aren't really off the grid, you have running water (where is the well, where is the bucket and the stream?) you have showers, you have stoves, grills, you have power to power phones, don't they die eventually? No, not in TS4. You have a powered fridge..hello insult to Castaway, what a facade this feature is. New drink,...oh great, another relaxed happy mood. Off the grid..and you live in a mansion made of steel, wood, and plastic, copper, pvc pipe, etc. I guess pretend is all TS4 needs. And your Sim didn't even have to build a lean to. Amazing feature. :s

NO Where in life is there a such thing as too happy ever being a bad thing - except maybe by people who resent others joy. Keep that in mind. I am always happy to find joy - it beats the heck out of unhappy. Can;t help it if you resent happiness. That is your problem - not mine. I find happiness where I can and relish it - not resent it. As for in this game - last I knew you don't even have it installed - so it should not matter to you at all.

This is just a game, right?

We are allowed to ask for challenge and not endless "happy".

Lets not make this personal over the fact that some of us want a deeper gameplay experience.

"knuckleduster;c-17152945" wrote:

"Writin_Reg;c-17148802" wrote:

"Cinebar;c-17148752" wrote:
Turtle eggs, cute, but does this game actually need more happy moodlets? Does it? I mean really, does it. Collectibles, does the game need more? Does this game need to keep collecting for busy work, because there is no actual game play? Fill up the inventory! yay, isn't that a reason TS4 lags according to some smart people? Does the Sim care the inventory is being filled up? Busy work isn't gameplay, it's fluff to hide the lack of gameplay. Off the grid, isn't that a patched option? Isn't WB just as good to live off the grid? Oh, wait you aren't really off the grid, you have running water (where is the well, where is the bucket and the stream?) you have showers, you have stoves, grills, you have power to power phones, don't they die eventually? No, not in TS4. You have a powered fridge..hello insult to Castaway, what a facade this feature is. New drink,...oh great, another relaxed happy mood. Off the grid..and you live in a mansion made of steel, wood, and plastic, copper, pvc pipe, etc. I guess pretend is all TS4 needs. And your Sim didn't even have to build a lean to. Amazing feature. :s

NO Where in life is there a such thing as too happy ever being a bad thing - except maybe by people who resent others joy. Keep that in mind. I am always happy to find joy - it beats the heck out of unhappy. Can;t help it if you resent happiness. That is your problem - not mine. I find happiness where I can and relish it - not resent it. As for in this game - last I knew you don't even have it installed - so it should not matter to you at all.

This is just a game, right?

We are allowed to ask for challenge and not endless "happy".

Lets not make this personal over the fact that some of us want a deeper gameplay experience.

But... two things:

1. The Sims has never been deep. It's not that type of game, none of the other games in the series have been deep, at all.

2. Challenge? Not all games are about challenge. A large part of the design decisions in Sims 4 was the gradual easiness increase added by developers to please the fans (yes, they do listen).
Sims 1 was BRUTAL. Physics issues aside, like you could have a sim starve to death because he couldn't go thru a door another sim blocked, but it was WAY too easy to get stuck in a downwards spiral of pure depression and misery you could not get out of. Sims 2? Better, but not much. And still too easy to die.
Sims 3? If you listen to the devs they have pointed out several times that players STILL considered it way too easy to lose Sims in 3, to stupid random events, even. Meteor strikes was something I lived in terror for. Death By Repairing? Yeah... I rather didn't repair stuff. Etc.
But even then, not all games are even MEANT to be challenging. Just because it is a game doesn't make challenge obligatory. On the other end of the scale of course is games like Dark Souls, but also old timey games like Ghosts N Goblins and other 1980s platformers, that makes Dark Souls seem like a cakewalk.

"Aine;c-17148835" wrote:
@Writin_Reg the problem isn't the happy happy, it's that you don't have to work for it - it's BORING. I want some REAL stakes, and the possibility of FAILURE, which there is NONE in Sims 4. Just please make it challenging on some level, instead of just giving happy moodlet after happy moodlet - it's creepy even, because it's not normal. It's like playing a teletubbie game - super disturbing at times. Just give us SOMETHING that is challenging. That's all. I want happy sims to mean something, not just a freaky unrealistic sunshine and rainbow image of life - I want it to be meaningful, cozy and special. And Sims 4 is making that REALLY hard.

Exactly.

"Beardedgeek;c-17152960" wrote:

"knuckleduster;c-17152945" wrote:

"Writin_Reg;c-17148802" wrote:

"Cinebar;c-17148752" wrote:
Turtle eggs, cute, but does this game actually need more happy moodlets? Does it? I mean really, does it. Collectibles, does the game need more? Does this game need to keep collecting for busy work, because there is no actual game play? Fill up the inventory! yay, isn't that a reason TS4 lags according to some smart people? Does the Sim care the inventory is being filled up? Busy work isn't gameplay, it's fluff to hide the lack of gameplay. Off the grid, isn't that a patched option? Isn't WB just as good to live off the grid? Oh, wait you aren't really off the grid, you have running water (where is the well, where is the bucket and the stream?) you have showers, you have stoves, grills, you have power to power phones, don't they die eventually? No, not in TS4. You have a powered fridge..hello insult to Castaway, what a facade this feature is. New drink,...oh great, another relaxed happy mood. Off the grid..and you live in a mansion made of steel, wood, and plastic, copper, pvc pipe, etc. I guess pretend is all TS4 needs. And your Sim didn't even have to build a lean to. Amazing feature. :s

NO Where in life is there a such thing as too happy ever being a bad thing - except maybe by people who resent others joy. Keep that in mind. I am always happy to find joy - it beats the heck out of unhappy. Can;t help it if you resent happiness. That is your problem - not mine. I find happiness where I can and relish it - not resent it. As for in this game - last I knew you don't even have it installed - so it should not matter to you at all.

This is just a game, right?

We are allowed to ask for challenge and not endless "happy".

Lets not make this personal over the fact that some of us want a deeper gameplay experience.

But... two things:

1. The Sims has never been deep. It's not that type of game, none of the other games in the series have been deep, at all.

2. Challenge? Not all games are about challenge. A large part of the design decisions in Sims 4 was the gradual easiness increase added by developers to please the fans (yes, they do listen).
Sims 1 was BRUTAL. Physics issues aside, like you could have a sim starve to death because he couldn't go thru a door another sim blocked, but it was WAY too easy to get stuck in a downwards spiral of pure depression and misery you could not get out of. Sims 2? Better, but not much. And still too easy to die.
Sims 3? If you listen to the devs they have pointed out several times that players STILL considered it way too easy to lose Sims in 3, to stupid random events, even. Meteor strikes was something I lived in terror for. Death By Repairing? Yeah... I rather didn't repair stuff. Etc.
But even then, not all games are even MEANT to be challenging. Just because it is a game doesn't make challenge obligatory. On the other end of the scale of course is games like Dark Souls, but also old timey games like Ghosts N Goblins and other 1980s platformers, that makes Dark Souls seem like a cakewalk.

I shouldn't have to listen to the developers to enjoy a game. I shouldn't have to be told to go backwards in game development for this series - in how to enjoy playing, when the first two iterations got it right.

The first and second versions are based on giving the players leeway and control throughout the various neighborhoods. Giving us players a full experience seemed more important - even, as you keep putting it - in losing their sims - BUT - they gave us pretty fun and "playful" ways to resurrect them if we so chose to.

If you know anything about game design - a successful game does make players feel like THEY have accomplished something - no matter how much of an illusion it is.

It really is all about a player's perception. You can only hope that a game designer is also a player at heart.

"knuckleduster;c-17152981" wrote:

"Beardedgeek;c-17152960" wrote:

"knuckleduster;c-17152945" wrote:

"Writin_Reg;c-17148802" wrote:

"Cinebar;c-17148752" wrote:
Turtle eggs, cute, but does this game actually need more happy moodlets? Does it? I mean really, does it. Collectibles, does the game need more? Does this game need to keep collecting for busy work, because there is no actual game play? Fill up the inventory! yay, isn't that a reason TS4 lags according to some smart people? Does the Sim care the inventory is being filled up? Busy work isn't gameplay, it's fluff to hide the lack of gameplay. Off the grid, isn't that a patched option? Isn't WB just as good to live off the grid? Oh, wait you aren't really off the grid, you have running water (where is the well, where is the bucket and the stream?) you have showers, you have stoves, grills, you have power to power phones, don't they die eventually? No, not in TS4. You have a powered fridge..hello insult to Castaway, what a facade this feature is. New drink,...oh great, another relaxed happy mood. Off the grid..and you live in a mansion made of steel, wood, and plastic, copper, pvc pipe, etc. I guess pretend is all TS4 needs. And your Sim didn't even have to build a lean to. Amazing feature. :s

NO Where in life is there a such thing as too happy ever being a bad thing - except maybe by people who resent others joy. Keep that in mind. I am always happy to find joy - it beats the heck out of unhappy. Can;t help it if you resent happiness. That is your problem - not mine. I find happiness where I can and relish it - not resent it. As for in this game - last I knew you don't even have it installed - so it should not matter to you at all.

This is just a game, right?

We are allowed to ask for challenge and not endless "happy".

Lets not make this personal over the fact that some of us want a deeper gameplay experience.

But... two things:

1. The Sims has never been deep. It's not that type of game, none of the other games in the series have been deep, at all.

2. Challenge? Not all games are about challenge. A large part of the design decisions in Sims 4 was the gradual easiness increase added by developers to please the fans (yes, they do listen).
Sims 1 was BRUTAL. Physics issues aside, like you could have a sim starve to death because he couldn't go thru a door another sim blocked, but it was WAY too easy to get stuck in a downwards spiral of pure depression and misery you could not get out of. Sims 2? Better, but not much. And still too easy to die.
Sims 3? If you listen to the devs they have pointed out several times that players STILL considered it way too easy to lose Sims in 3, to stupid random events, even. Meteor strikes was something I lived in terror for. Death By Repairing? Yeah... I rather didn't repair stuff. Etc.
But even then, not all games are even MEANT to be challenging. Just because it is a game doesn't make challenge obligatory. On the other end of the scale of course is games like Dark Souls, but also old timey games like Ghosts N Goblins and other 1980s platformers, that makes Dark Souls seem like a cakewalk.

I shouldn't have to listen to the developers to enjoy a game. I shouldn't have to be told to go backwards in game development for this series - in how to enjoy playing, when the first two iterations got it right.

The first and second versions are based on giving the players leeway and control throughout the various neighborhoods. Giving us players a full experience seemed more important - even, as you keep putting it - in losing their sims - BUT - they gave us pretty fun and "playful" ways to resurrect them if we so chose to.

If you know anything about game design - a successful game does make players feel like THEY have accomplished something - no matter how much of an illusion it is.

It really is all about a player's perception. You can only hope that a game designer is also a player at heart.

And that is your opinion. And nobody says you have to listen to them, but it might explain why Sims 4 is not for you; it isn't made for you. It's really simple.
And yes. You are absolutely right. But it does not have to be what you think. You still do the mistake of thinking of Sims as a "game" like Skyrim or Tetris or Overwatch whatnot. It is not. And there are HUNDRED of titles of games that do not subscribe to your old timey and limited definition of what a game is, btw.
Starting with other games from the same studio, to things like Pokemon, Farm Simulator 2019...

But yes, accomplishments come in all kinds of versions. From surviving a big boss fight, to finding all the shiny variants of pokemon, to building that really cool house using techniques I have not used before, to designing the prettiest Sim EVER. But you are only interested in the first kind, and that, quite frankly, is your loss.

"Beardedgeek;c-17153006" wrote:

"knuckleduster;c-17152981" wrote:

"Beardedgeek;c-17152960" wrote:

"knuckleduster;c-17152945" wrote:

"Writin_Reg;c-17148802" wrote:

"Cinebar;c-17148752" wrote:
Turtle eggs, cute, but does this game actually need more happy moodlets? Does it? I mean really, does it. Collectibles, does the game need more? Does this game need to keep collecting for busy work, because there is no actual game play? Fill up the inventory! yay, isn't that a reason TS4 lags according to some smart people? Does the Sim care the inventory is being filled up? Busy work isn't gameplay, it's fluff to hide the lack of gameplay. Off the grid, isn't that a patched option? Isn't WB just as good to live off the grid? Oh, wait you aren't really off the grid, you have running water (where is the well, where is the bucket and the stream?) you have showers, you have stoves, grills, you have power to power phones, don't they die eventually? No, not in TS4. You have a powered fridge..hello insult to Castaway, what a facade this feature is. New drink,...oh great, another relaxed happy mood. Off the grid..and you live in a mansion made of steel, wood, and plastic, copper, pvc pipe, etc. I guess pretend is all TS4 needs. And your Sim didn't even have to build a lean to. Amazing feature. :s

NO Where in life is there a such thing as too happy ever being a bad thing - except maybe by people who resent others joy. Keep that in mind. I am always happy to find joy - it beats the heck out of unhappy. Can;t help it if you resent happiness. That is your problem - not mine. I find happiness where I can and relish it - not resent it. As for in this game - last I knew you don't even have it installed - so it should not matter to you at all.

This is just a game, right?

We are allowed to ask for challenge and not endless "happy".

Lets not make this personal over the fact that some of us want a deeper gameplay experience.

But... two things:

1. The Sims has never been deep. It's not that type of game, none of the other games in the series have been deep, at all.

2. Challenge? Not all games are about challenge. A large part of the design decisions in Sims 4 was the gradual easiness increase added by developers to please the fans (yes, they do listen).
Sims 1 was BRUTAL. Physics issues aside, like you could have a sim starve to death because he couldn't go thru a door another sim blocked, but it was WAY too easy to get stuck in a downwards spiral of pure depression and misery you could not get out of. Sims 2? Better, but not much. And still too easy to die.
Sims 3? If you listen to the devs they have pointed out several times that players STILL considered it way too easy to lose Sims in 3, to stupid random events, even. Meteor strikes was something I lived in terror for. Death By Repairing? Yeah... I rather didn't repair stuff. Etc.
But even then, not all games are even MEANT to be challenging. Just because it is a game doesn't make challenge obligatory. On the other end of the scale of course is games like Dark Souls, but also old timey games like Ghosts N Goblins and other 1980s platformers, that makes Dark Souls seem like a cakewalk.

I shouldn't have to listen to the developers to enjoy a game. I shouldn't have to be told to go backwards in game development for this series - in how to enjoy playing, when the first two iterations got it right.

The first and second versions are based on giving the players leeway and control throughout the various neighborhoods. Giving us players a full experience seemed more important - even, as you keep putting it - in losing their sims - BUT - they gave us pretty fun and "playful" ways to resurrect them if we so chose to.

If you know anything about game design - a successful game does make players feel like THEY have accomplished something - no matter how much of an illusion it is.

It really is all about a player's perception. You can only hope that a game designer is also a player at heart.

And that is your opinion. And nobody says you have to listen to them, but it might explain why Sims 4 is not for you; it isn't made for you. It's really simple.
And yes. You are absolutely right. But it does not have to be what you think. You still do the mistake of thinking of Sims as a "game" like Skyrim or Tetris or Overwatch whatnot. It is not. And there are HUNDRED of titles of games that do not subscribe to your old timey and limited definition of what a game is, btw.
Starting with other games from the same studio, to things like Pokemon, Farm Simulator 2019...

But yes, accomplishments come in all kinds of versions. From surviving a big boss fight, to finding all the shiny variants of pokemon, to building that really cool house using techniques I have not used before, to designing the prettiest Sim EVER. But you are only interested in the first kind, and that, quite frankly, is your loss.

Actually Will Wright also thought it was about giving the player a toy - a toy that offered not only autonomy but also a sufficient amount of challenge, and ultimately, a sense of accomplishment. Obviously games aren't made for one specific person, you're right about that, but they are usually made with the intention to appeal to most or even all of the people who like whatever genre they're in. So it's always a bit of a bummer when someone's favorite franchise - the one you'd reasonably expect to want to appeal to you, - releases a title you really can't get behind.

It's unfortunate some had that with 3, and others have it again with 4. Perhaps EA should take a serious, self-conscious look at what exactly made 1 & 2 so popular and take their learnings to one day release a successor that pleases most of us. In the meantime we can always learn a little from anybody's viewpoint ?

@EA_Mai I don’t know how to close threads, but I would like to close comments on this one. I think the topic has derailed from my original question.

"Beardedgeek;c-17153006" wrote:

"knuckleduster;c-17152981" wrote:

"Beardedgeek;c-17152960" wrote:

"knuckleduster;c-17152945" wrote:

"Writin_Reg;c-17148802" wrote:

"Cinebar;c-17148752" wrote:
Turtle eggs, cute, but does this game actually need more happy moodlets? Does it? I mean really, does it. Collectibles, does the game need more? Does this game need to keep collecting for busy work, because there is no actual game play? Fill up the inventory! yay, isn't that a reason TS4 lags according to some smart people? Does the Sim care the inventory is being filled up? Busy work isn't gameplay, it's fluff to hide the lack of gameplay. Off the grid, isn't that a patched option? Isn't WB just as good to live off the grid? Oh, wait you aren't really off the grid, you have running water (where is the well, where is the bucket and the stream?) you have showers, you have stoves, grills, you have power to power phones, don't they die eventually? No, not in TS4. You have a powered fridge..hello insult to Castaway, what a facade this feature is. New drink,...oh great, another relaxed happy mood. Off the grid..and you live in a mansion made of steel, wood, and plastic, copper, pvc pipe, etc. I guess pretend is all TS4 needs. And your Sim didn't even have to build a lean to. Amazing feature. :s

NO Where in life is there a such thing as too happy ever being a bad thing - except maybe by people who resent others joy. Keep that in mind. I am always happy to find joy - it beats the heck out of unhappy. Can;t help it if you resent happiness. That is your problem - not mine. I find happiness where I can and relish it - not resent it. As for in this game - last I knew you don't even have it installed - so it should not matter to you at all.

This is just a game, right?

We are allowed to ask for challenge and not endless "happy".

Lets not make this personal over the fact that some of us want a deeper gameplay experience.

But... two things:

1. The Sims has never been deep. It's not that type of game, none of the other games in the series have been deep, at all.

2. Challenge? Not all games are about challenge. A large part of the design decisions in Sims 4 was the gradual easiness increase added by developers to please the fans (yes, they do listen).
Sims 1 was BRUTAL. Physics issues aside, like you could have a sim starve to death because he couldn't go thru a door another sim blocked, but it was WAY too easy to get stuck in a downwards spiral of pure depression and misery you could not get out of. Sims 2? Better, but not much. And still too easy to die.
Sims 3? If you listen to the devs they have pointed out several times that players STILL considered it way too easy to lose Sims in 3, to stupid random events, even. Meteor strikes was something I lived in terror for. Death By Repairing? Yeah... I rather didn't repair stuff. Etc.
But even then, not all games are even MEANT to be challenging. Just because it is a game doesn't make challenge obligatory. On the other end of the scale of course is games like Dark Souls, but also old timey games like Ghosts N Goblins and other 1980s platformers, that makes Dark Souls seem like a cakewalk.

I shouldn't have to listen to the developers to enjoy a game. I shouldn't have to be told to go backwards in game development for this series - in how to enjoy playing, when the first two iterations got it right.

The first and second versions are based on giving the players leeway and control throughout the various neighborhoods. Giving us players a full experience seemed more important - even, as you keep putting it - in losing their sims - BUT - they gave us pretty fun and "playful" ways to resurrect them if we so chose to.

If you know anything about game design - a successful game does make players feel like THEY have accomplished something - no matter how much of an illusion it is.

It really is all about a player's perception. You can only hope that a game designer is also a player at heart.

And that is your opinion. And nobody says you have to listen to them, but it might explain why Sims 4 is not for you; it isn't made for you. It's really simple.
And yes. You are absolutely right. But it does not have to be what you think. You still do the mistake of thinking of Sims as a "game" like Skyrim or Tetris or Overwatch whatnot. It is not. And there are HUNDRED of titles of games that do not subscribe to your old timey and limited definition of what a game is, btw.
Starting with other games from the same studio, to things like Pokemon, Farm Simulator 2019...

But yes, accomplishments come in all kinds of versions. From surviving a big boss fight, to finding all the shiny variants of pokemon, to building that really cool house using techniques I have not used before, to designing the prettiest Sim EVER. But you are only interested in the first kind, and that, quite frankly, is your loss.

I take it you have never had the good fortune to play Sims 1 & 2? You don't speak as someone who has played a version of what the game COULD be like.

I feel bad for those who have never been able to experience the "good old days" of real gaming. It was more intelligent.

I find it ironic that you call my view "limited" - you just described Sims 4 in a nutshell - limited.

I wish I was as ignorant - then I wouldn't mind how dumbed down the Sims series has become.

"Beardedgeek;c-17151605" wrote:

"Sigzy05;c-17151480" wrote:

"Simsister2004;c-17151002" wrote:

"Aine;c-17148869" wrote:
For me Sims 4 is WAY more strict than any other Sims game - it has WAY more limitations and I can't do what I want. In sims 2, where a lot of bad things could happen, I almost NEVER let anything bad happen to my sims, they were happy all the time, mostly. but the few times that they were miserable, fed into the time they weren't and made them more special and 'real. I just want that back. The incessant smiling only works for me if I actually have to work for it - it's not about real life happiness, it's a GAME. And for me, I love giving my sims happy lives, but there's no fun or meaning if there are no challenge. I wish the game could give us the OPTION to play more challenging, instead of the happy rainbows all the time. That way, people that want the psychedelic smiling can have that, and the rest of us can get real gameplay also.

Playing the Sims has always been difficult at the start of a new version of the game. When you get a routine and some experience, it will become easier to achieve what you want. I don't know what you mean with "psychedelic smiling"? Try to play with some sims with bad traits and/or at other places than you have tried until now!
Picture: Robinson going mad without human companionship.
https://i.imgur.com/4agpqYD.jpg

Picture: Vaiana scolding to a criminal person, doing illegal fishing.
https://i.imgur.com/g4c0OQg.jpg

That's scripted. The game forces sims to do that once they are given the NPC tag that makes them trash the environment. It's not something that happens just because.

The point, though, is that the whole "unnatural smiling" thing... just doesn't hold water. Personally I can agree that it's sometimes too easy to make them happy, but the facial expressions are always very realistic and well made.

I don't agree.

https://i.imgur.com/LkEZkMP.png?1