Kylo Ren Frenzy Broken

Kylo's Frenzy does break block, but it does not hit if dodged. If a character blocks, then dodges, and then either block or dodge again, he'll probably bypass any of kylo's damages. I find this a hard move. It's doable, but it's very precise.

Kylo's Frenzy usually hits once, sometimes twice, rarely three times and rarely none too. Considering each hit does 125 damage, I find it balanced. I won't say for GA, nor for HS, but definetly for HvV. Also, knowing when to use his Frenzy is key. Getting the first hit because of good play usually awards you at least a second hit, for a total of 250 damage.

Kylo's Frenzy also forces the enemy to engage him, there's nothing one can do while being targetted by his frenzy except dealing with it. Rarely too a targetted enemy can use a move which cancels his frenzy after the first hit lands or misses, as using a skill while between his 3 hits usually results in just being hit and getting the ability cancelled.

I honestly see no reason to tweak even more this skill. It's working well with the current meta, and Kylo is very solid character to use in HvV. Again, just to clarify, my opinions are solely related to HvV meta, the only mode I play for real.

What you’re explaining is NOT what I’m experiencing.

I’m aware the Frenzy ability can be dodged, that’s not the complaint.

the issue is that on recurring basis (i.e. every time) Kylo can active Frenzy on a highlighted, identifies target who is using a saber to block; even with the opponent dodging ZERO times the Frenzy will NOT break through the block. 

Kylo will swing his saber essentially registering no hits and cussing no damage.

Im specifically describing when an opponent is blocking and doesn’t dodge. Many players realize this ability is broken and will only dodge if out of stamina; otherwise they can just stand there and completely block the ability.

This is a bug as the ability is supposed to break through blocks. Registering one to two strikes is optimum and what I would expect, however, that’s not what’s happening.

The damage per strike of Frenzy isn’t incredibly more than the damage of a standard saber strike from Kylo so this ability needs to work properly.  

Also, I have to correct you. There are multiple abilities which WILL effectively cancel out Frenzy:

Lukes Push, Yodas Unleash, Anikans Heroic Might, even Hans Shoulder charge now that it does knock back will cancel out Frenzy. I experience this on a daily basis. 

I can assume that its due, in part, to the fact that damage isn’t registering during the ability for a vast majority of the time. 

Proper timing is key, however, the gameplay mechanics aren’t precise in this game to begin with. That being said for the ability to truly be useful it needs to be adjusted for a greater accuracy percentage. An ability that has a useful effectiveness only during 15% of gameplay isn’t useful or balanced, nor is the ability by any means considered OP given that opponents CAN dodge out of it. 

This isn’t a matter of proper timing it’s a matter of game mechanics not being properly optimized in this particular circumstance which is resulting in an ability that’s registering a benefit only 15% of the time it’s properly activated. 

I tried to attach a video clip, however, the website doesn’t support it. The clip can be found under my Xbox Gamertag: VetteZ51; the clip was uploaded on 6/22 and features me as Kylo Ren on the Death Star II map of HvV 

In the clip at roughly the 4 second mark Kylo activates Frenzy while Luke is still within the animation to get up after being frozen. There is no initial block during the activation of Frenzy, however, the initial strike of Frenzy doesn’t register damage or a hit market. Luke does end up blocking during the rest of the active Frenzy but at NO point during the strikes are hit markers or damage registered. The first strike should have been an absolute damage strike and it wasn’t. The subsequent Frenzy strikes also failed to deal any damage. I’d also like to note that Luke is NOT dodging, moreover his character is expressing a stagger animation as a result of the advancing Frenzy.

The only hit marker that gets registered during this period of play is when Luke uses his push ability and my regular saber strike is recognized; at this time you can see in the clip that Frenzy is already in cooldown and not active. Afterward I engage Luke additionally and do defeat him, however, the Frenzy ability that I had setup and properly timed failed to provide any result. 

It seems clear from this clip that the mechanics here are NOT correct and need to be addressed. Not only is the Frenzy not breaking blocks as it should but it’s also not registering damage as it should a majority of the time. 

With recent updates to Frenzy you really cannot activate the ability unless it IS properly timed as the highlighted target activation has a pretty narrow AOE, meaning that opponents utilizing their high mobility and speed help to ensure they’re not within activation range. This is intended and that’s fine but what that also means is that when Frenzy IS properly timed and activated we expect that it’s going to work AND that it’s going to yield SOME result. Not every strike will land but the initial strike should always land and register damage; the rest of the strikes can be dodged and that’s fine. 

This ability is bugged. And yes this is Xbox One and HvV ... I cannot speak as to whether this issue exists on other platforms. 

@VetteC5RX 

So I have just tested this in Arcade. Everything I said is still valid, however one thing which I wasn't aware yet was that if one remained blocking Frenzy he could block all 3 hits. It wasn't like that in the past. It still does break the block, but the time it takes between hits is too long to fit into the broken block time window. Good to know.

You're probably getting the "breaking block" thing wrong. There's a difference between breaking block and bypassing block. I know people usually use one in the place of the other, but breaking block is actually making the enemy become vulnerable to damage while his block is broken. When a damaging move does that, it usually applies damage before breaking block, which means that that hit will be blocked, but the block will be broken afterwards. Bypassing block OTOH is when you ignore a block, like Yoda's Dash Attack (or in the past Grievous's spider move, Kylo's Pull, or Rey's Dash Strike). Anakin's Passionate Strike does both Break and Bypassing Block if I'm not mistaken.

So my impressions are either taken from a massive mismovement of enemies when affected by Frenzy, or the help of teammates in hitting the same enemy during the broken block windows.

However I still think this is ok and balanced for HvV. It's still a very powerful ability which helps even when the enemy isn't taking the hits.

To finish this just mind that even if his skill doesn't deal much more damage then his swing (actually it does the exact same), it's still a whopping 125, which can land 0 to 3 times. According to my impressions, if it usually hits once, and sometimes twice, its average damage is something above 125. Vader's choke does around that damage, and also Yoda's Dash Attack, Rey's Dash Strike, Grievous spider move, Dooku's lightning if it hits only one target, Palpatine's Chain Lightning, Phasma's First Staff Hit. So it's ok, as besides those most skills actually do lower damage like Luke's Push, Repulse, and Rush, Yoda's empty Unleash, Maul's Choke Hold, Spin Attack, and Throw if it hits once, Anakin's Pull and Heroic Might, Kylo's Pull, Grievous's unrelenting advance if it hits once and Iden's Stun Droid.

Most high damage abilities are actually from Blaster Heroes like Iden's and Leias secondary fire, Han's Detonite and Shoulder Charge, Chewie's Slam, Lando's Sharpshot, Phasma's second and third staff strikes, Boba's rockets and Bossk's Arsenal. Obi's Push, Ani's Retribution and Passionate Strike, Vader's Throw, and Dooku's Duelist are exceptions.

And if you manage to hit Twice, you're dealing more damage then most abilities (250 damage). Only Han's detonite does that if it detonates really near an enemy, or Phasma's third Staff Strike which deals actually more, or Iden's Zoomed-In Pulse Rifle Headshot from a good range which is the most damaging ability of any Hero/Villain in the game.

Hitting 3 times, which I know it's very rare, actually puts it above the most damaging ability there is (not counting those abilities which may deal loads of damage if all hits are registered, but which doesn't happen ever like Bossk's Dioxis, or Grievous's Unrelenting Advance, all 3 hits of Phasma's Staff Strikes and so on).

BTW, I never said abilities wouldn't cancel his Frenzy. I said heroes engaged in a Frenzy by Kylo hardly ever get to properly use a skill which gets them free, as these skills usually are so slow or require such precise timing that the Frenzy usually hits before the ability works and cancels its effect. One notorious example that usually does get out frequently is Luke, as his Push is fast enough to be used during the time window between Frenzy hits. But then hitting him in the back usually prevents this.

SO in my experience it's much more then 15%. Hitting at least once is something much more then 50% to me, and as it deals 125 dmg and has all these other benefits I listed, I think it's a great skill. Its 40% damage reduction to allow you to leave it with dignity if someone disrupts you is also great and makes the skill a very balanced one IMO.

I have to strongly disagree and would invite you to review the game clip I mentioned in my previous post.

for clarification purposes; yes, I expect Frenzy to BYPASS blocks! 

By NOT bypassing blocks correctly, no, the ability is not balanced and does not contribute towards balanced gameplay. An ability that fails to land ANY damage MORE than 80% of the time is NOT balance, I’m sorry; and I’m sure the majority of the gaming community would agree. 

Again, I never stated that EVERY strike would recognize damage as hero’s CAN dodge the strikes and in some cases, can even dodge the initial strike if properly timed, however, Frenzy should NOT simply be able to be 100% blocked and register 0 damage when properly timed and that’s what’s happening and the video clip I referenced is proof of that.

The circumstances you’re quoting such as teammates assisting or dodging are NOT what I’m describing. 

In my experience with this character and this game, which goes back to pre-release; I have been playing this game since pre release; I’m telling you that the ability, in its current state, is not functioning properly on HvV on Xbox One. Again, refer to the game clip video I referenced for further understanding. 

Under no circumstances of “balanced gameplay” should a properly timed ability activation result in absolutely no damage done or no effect done. 

Also, just for clarification purposes; what I’m explaining is that properly timed Frenzy activations are dealing ZERO hit ... ZERO .. not one, not tow, not three, not sometimes two .... ZERO. 

All 3 strikes are being blocked without using any dodge. 

Thats a problem. 

With regard to the damage reduction, no; absolutely not. 40% is garbage.

Kenobi gets 80% for All out Push and Vader gets 90% during Choke!! And Kylo gets a measly 40% during a VERY short time frame ability????

personally, given Kylos lower base health and the short duration of Frenzy that should be closer to 60% - 70% reduction to be in line with everyone else. 

But thats not what I really have concern with; the Frenzy ability not regularly recognizing damage is, and again, there is video proof of this. 

Ive been gaming since 1987; I’ve played across every genre and platform; I have to be honest here the overall mechanics on Battlefront 2 have to be some of the most poorly coordinated I’ve ever encountered. Due to that it’s makes it all more important that abilities work and that they’re balanced with regard to all characters, not just themselves. 

Well, I never searched for XBox clips, but you can display your clip here, I'll definetly review it if you bring it here. In the Compose tab of a Reply you can insert video through the 'Insert a Video' button in its panel. After clicking it you choose the 'From the Web' tab and put the link there and hit preview. After the preview is loaded you just need to choose its size and confirm and the video will be shown here. This way ou can show any video no matter its length, as it won't be uploaded to this site, just showwn in the reply. Let me show you an example using an youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHiLtjZlWh4

I'll continue to discuss this up to the last post you made, but when I show you everything is working as intended, especially because devs aren't very clear what exactly the abilities do, so we must take player feedback and character ranking in the meta to see if it seems right, we're delving into the realm of opinions, and this is a BUG reporting forum, not a place to discuss changes to the game. And Frenzy seems right, despite it could use a tweak to not allow a character to simply stand blocking all 3 hits, which is as easy as decreasing the time between hits, so the following hits can get the enemy before he recovers from the broken block.

I've been playing since pre-release too. I have more then 1700 hours of gameplay. I have seen all iterations of Kylo's Frenzy, and despite I liked more that one which he could hit up to 7 times, this one is much more reliable then that one back then. With the damage boost I feel it's actually better, despite not so interesting as before. And there were many iterations, especially the initial one, which the skill was utter garbage, as a simple move by the enemy would usually make the skill miss. It was too easy to ignore Kylo's Frenzy in some updates of this game.

And yes, Battlefront II is very messy concerning their core game mechanics. I agree many things are flawed, I've been very vocal about this since February 2018. But in this case I feel everything is OK. You insist the skill does nothing when it's blocked, but I already explained this is not true. An enemy defending Frenzy not only becomes vulnerable to Kylo's allies, but also becomes semi-stuck in the frenzy for its duration as if he tries to ignore Kylo and attack someone else, his attack will fail, and he'll then be hit by Frenzy. It's a skill which may deal good damage, makes the enemy easy prey for allies, and gets the enemy busy with Kylo for 1 to 2 seconds. In HvV this is very good as there it's all about teamplay. I use it a lot and it's always a good move. It also has a very low recharge time, which allows it to be used very frequently. It can also be used to close distance quickly, like another dodge. It's a great skill.

And about the Damage Reduction, I agree it isn't one of the highest there is, but it's good for Kylo. Most of the damage Kylo takes during Frenzy is damage which will also disrupt Frenzy, so this reduction usually applies only once as when the ability is cancelled, the damage reduction is cancelled with it. It also doesn't last long enough for a shooter to melt him down, unless he's ganged up. I know Ani, Vader, and Obi can withstand much more, but IMO their damage reduction is too high, it isn't healthy for this game. I think theirs should decrease while Kylo's is already in a good state.

So get the video here so I can review it. A character which is standing up can block skills and attacks, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's what happened in the case you described. Also take a look at mine and you'll see Frenzy working like a charm.

The link to the video will be at the bottom of this thread. Items of note to pay attention to: 1. The initial strike of Frenzy was timed to contact while Link was still in an animation and therefore not blocking; as such the initial strike SHOULD have registered damage but did not. 2. You can see that the remaining Frenzy strikes are avoided yet the initial should have yielded damage. 

the video you provided is being played on PC and is pre update. I’m speaking specifically to Xbox One users. In order to do proper research on the issue you must use the same platform where the issue is being observed.

Again, what you’re describing about the Frenzy ability mechanics against a blocking opponent are NOT what I’m experiencing. Opponents are NOT “locked” into Kylos Frenzy, they CAN dodge REPEATEDLY away from both leaps. Proper timing will enable opponents to simply dodge out of the strikes.

If the strikes are unable to bypass blocks AND opponents can directly dodge the strikes every time then how is the ability supposed to be useful? 

The argument for this ability, specifically, to bypass blocks is rooted in the fact that the opponents are allowed to dodge them. That being said; a block bypass is balance because even WITH a block bypass that’s no guarantee of a hit or damage being dealt; it actually doesn’t even guarantee a likelihood at this point at nearly all players are versed in dodge. 

Pull & Feeeze can be blocked and that’s fair. Looking at Kylo’s all around attributes he’s not the fastest character nor does he have the highest dodge potential (like say Dooku). Those attributes are fair but by no means top tier. Kylos base health is average as well; he doesn’t have star cards to increase his base health, his health regen isn’t the fastest, nor is Kylo a tank like Vader or Chewbacca. None of Kylos overall stats are out of line or overly strong. Take Rey for example, her base damage is slightly less than Kylos with this update but she has a disruptive ability that cannot be blocked (potentially dodged in rare cases) which increase her likelihood of landing strikes. Kylo used to be able to leap with Frenzy to reach opponents affected by his Freeze, however, now he cannot; Freeze has a far larger AOE then Frenzy meaning it’s much harder to use these abilities in conjunction; even still. Back to my original point. 

I am experiencing situations where Frenzy, being properly timed, is having zero affect on my opponents. Than can block and repetitively dodge the ability, completely negating it. Frenzy is NOT an OP ability; doing the same damage as a standard strike and given that its dodge able there’s no logic in it not bypassing a block. That would create balance.

Now, IF opponents weren’t able to fully dodge out of the Frenzy ability I would agree with you. Opponents are not trapped, at least not on Xbox One. You may be experiencing something different on PC but on the console that’s NOT what’s happening.  

Kylo Ren Frenzy Xbox One