Re: Input based matchmaking and permanent xim bans

@full951 I've read the article and it seems your having trouble comprehending what your reading. 

Nobody is arguing whether or not kbm should be allowed on console or not. The argument is about third party kbm and adapters that trick the console into thinking you are using a controller

Native kbm in fortnite for example will pair you with kbm users regardless of platform. 

Xim users however are kbm players being paired against controller players while still getting the tweaks implemented into console game versions to minimize the playability difference between pc and console. In fortnite this would equate to building and shooting assistance. If you play fortnite through a xim you will have a building advantage as well as receive aim assist and smoother easier edits than any competitor you will face. So you will start every game with an advantage. Microsoft and other gaming companies do not like this idea.

As I've stated in previous posts the use of xim and like devices is outright cheating

And Microsoft actually DID kick players when xim was detected but these cheating clowns always find a way around it

https://youtu.be/m4H3wLj1Uac

So again if the game supports kbm on console natively then do you but if it doesn't it is because devs feel that kbm on console creates an uneventful playing field for stick users. It's my personal opinion that console should NOT support kbm as I feel it will eventually kill console gaming and here's why

If I'm gaming and force to my against kbm users why would I continue to use controller and place my self at a mechanical disadvantage. Now if I'm going to play kbm to stay competitive why would I buy the next gen console in 2020 for $600 when I could build a gaming specific pc for close to the same price and still play Xbox games through windows 10 AND have the option and versatility to customize my gaming unit however I see fit as well having better internet capabilities, more downloadable software and a better interface, gaming options like resolution control, running background programs, uncapped frames and a slew of other benefits. If consoles really do move toward native kbm the console scence will die. Especially with the most popular streamers being pc players the youth will start to ask for PC's for Xmas instead of an xbox

"Xim users however are kbm players being paired against controller players while still getting the tweaks implemented into console game versions to minimize the playability difference between pc and console"

This is the crux of the matter.

I played on xbox the other night and my teamate got 26 kills, 3557 damage. I don't know for a fact that they were using a XIM but I'd bet money on it.

where did I say the argument was about whether or not MnK and keyboard should be on console? it is and has been on console.

the aim assist issue is one i do agree with you on. but I don't control what others do. and it's one of those things where it helps emulators to varying degrees same as it helps the controllers. imo neither should have it, but many a console player would be dismayed if removed. unfortunately that's not up to me.

Microsoft and the devs take no issue with emulated mouse and keyboard. neither consider it cheating even with aim assist. I'm telling you the opinions of the writer in that article are wrong. as are his implications that Microsoft kicked or even tried to prevent anyone from using an emulator. Microsoft has tools to detect MnK emulators but back in October when some xim players got kicked, it wasn't by Microsoft. epic did that, and epic wasn't trying to kick emulator users, they were trying to keep pc players out of console matches. m guessing this issue is fixed now but back then in October as a pc player, you could start a match with a  controller plugged into your computer cueing you into a console match, cuz crossplay. well, pc players where pulling the controller out and back then the game let the native controls take over. this was an attempt to detect wasd movement (not detect emulators) and kick pc players. some emulator users got kicked, most did not, and it did not keep pc players out. this is all information the article writer didn't know.

in response to your last paragraph, you do what you want. your money, your house. you game on what you want and how you want. I will never tell you how to play or spend your money. if I did, I was wrong to. you have your reasons for your gaming choices. 

console gaming is doing fine and the last thing to hurt console gaming would be mouse and keyboard. you explain your ability to price and build a pc for similar cost of a next Gen system. well my friend, you are informed and savvy to the gaming market.. lots of people are not and for many other reasons like the perception that building a pc is difficult, or there are hackers on pc, or they don't want to build or maintain a pc, consoles offer a complete package deal. it's in one box and it plays games. yes, I know pc pre built systems exist but people are adverse to change. and most parents aren't gonna buy their kids a gaming pc for xmass. they buy them consoles by and large. I think it would be great in more parents bought kids gaming pcs but that's just isn't the reality we live in. they will get tablets or laptops for school at best and mostly console for gaming 

@full951 I'm sorry but paragraph 3 is just incorrect. Season 6 (September) launched the input based matchmaking and you were able to que kbm lobbies and then switch to controller but not able to que controller lobbies then switch to kbm...and if you played pc you que into pc lobby regardless of your input. So controller on PC goes into pc lobby...if you qd into kbm lobby aka pc lobby you could switch between kbm/controller. If you qd into controller lobby with both inputs you were unable to switch to kbm...you have never been able to get into a console lobby on PC since the ibmm was implemented

And Microsoft vp is on record stating he feels 3rd party kbm on console could create an unfair playing field but announces that they won't implement blocks on a SYSTEM level fore 2 reasons.

      1) they want to leave gameplay management in the hands of the developers. Meaning the devs should decide how they game is played

      2) they feel it will restrict access to those with limited accessibility

Which again I'm cool with both. I have stated I have no problem kbm on console even though I think it's detrimental.what I do have a problem with is kbm and pad mixed lobbies.

Otherwise I might as well bind wasd to a left foot joystick jump to a right pedal and just use qwe

Asd.  Asd primary binds since I "have arthritis"  adding two more control devices on two more limbs shouldn't be a problem. Even though this would be an even greater mechanical advantage of kbm

@full951 I think we actually agree on the meat of my point here. I am simply trying to say that kbm and controller should NOT be in the same lobby...

You wanna play kbm but the devs don't support it? I'm sorry but you should be banned. If the devs had wanted it to be kbm compatible it would be.

And I still feel it's cheating and hold the fact that you will NEVER see a kbm player at an Xbox tournament as pretty solid proof. 

Last thought here...for a game like apex there is really no reason why you need a xim. I can't imagine that a household would have an Xbox and the funds for a xim but not have a PC capable of running a free to play game. "But my friends all have xbox"...they all use controllers too...wanna play with them you should like LIKE them

It's not even a real mouse. Lol it's just a peripheral which looks like a mouse which controls the default analogue stick on a gamepad. I have used these devices before, and it is total utter s* compared to a real mouse. And when you factor in the Aim-assist most of the time it's actually worst than controlling the analogue stick normally through the gamepad. 

You think you have cheating issues with crappy XIM then come to PC and you will see "real" cheating.

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@HamoHitman wrote:

@full951 I think we actually agree on the meat of my point here. I am simply trying to say that kbm and controller should NOT be in the same lobby...

You wanna play kbm but the devs don't support it? I'm sorry but you should be banned. If the devs had wanted it to be kbm compatible it would be.

And I still feel it's cheating and hold the fact that you will NEVER see a kbm player at an Xbox tournament as pretty solid proof. 

Last thought here...for a game like apex there is really no reason why you need a xim. I can't imagine that a household would have an Xbox and the funds for a xim but not have a PC capable of running a free to play game. "But my friends all have xbox"...they all use controllers too...wanna play with them you should like LIKE them

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well, it's not up to you or me if anyone gets banned for using mouse and keyboard. it's up to the devs really. and as you say, they have all the help in the world from Microsoft..  and no one ever has been banned. so. . I'm gonna go with the judgements of devs wether or not it's cheating.

I'd be really impressed if you can prove to me the devs of any game ever have or even have the intention of banning or blocking emulators. we've only seen blocking and separated lobbies of native support. that's it. 

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@HamoHitman wrote:

@full951 

.... Otherwise I might as well bind wasd to a left foot joystick jump to a right pedal and just use qwe

Asd.  Asd primary binds since I "have arthritis"  adding two more control devices on two more limbs shouldn't be a problem. Even though this would be an even greater mechanical advantage of kbm

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yes, this is absolutely doable with first and third party controllers and is available to you and anyone with or without arthritis. no dev or console maker has any problem with that even if you throw a mouse in the mix. I 100% guarantee it

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@DankToliet wrote:
from the Xim dev himself:

"We know our usage numbers and what games people are playing with their XIM APEX devices. Compared to the numbers of gamers on Apex Legends -- just like PUBG -- even if all XIM gamers were playing this one game, it would account for less than a fraction of a percent. It's ridiculous to see that, but, totally consistent with how gamers in these community think. That is they can't take blame for losing -- it must have been because someone else has some sort of advantage over them."

interpret it however you'd like.

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cool. I had not seen that statement from obsiv about knowing the usage numbers.

I would ask how he came to that percentage. was he making a ratio of average concurrent players over a week? a day? since launch? or peak numbers or is he going of total downloads? 50 million is  a big number but that's not how many are playing all at once. 

"We have have anonymous telemetry that's captured for XIM APEX. However, if you were to assume every XIM gamer was playing Apex Legends, it would still be noise compared to the millions that play the game"

he then lists a link we can't post here.

that's the thing people who don't know just assume. They automatically think whichever game they're playing EVERY Xim user is playing that game, and even then how do you know they're using mk.

I saw a video of a guy playing rainbow 6 with a Wii remote and a playstation move on Xbox.

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@DankToliet wrote:

I saw a video of a guy playing rainbow 6 with a Wii remote and a playstation move on Xbox.

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+1