Re: Ttk changes apex legends

My god. Still the same assumptions.
Once again for like the 10th time.
NO ONE wants CoD type TTK!
Just want tactical flanking to be useful to the majority of players.

'....both sides of this debate are actually 'vocal minorities to the millions of people playing that don't come to the forums.'

- I agree, however my expectation of a user forum geared towards providing feedback on a game would be that more people wanting change would be active on here than those who are currently happy and therefore see no need to vent on that forum.

I've extended my counting from the previous post to all threads that mention TTK or Time to Kill - every post in all 27 threads with each user getting 1 vote counted each on their position and the results were 99 in favor of current TTK and 67 against.

'...what does that mean for the actual player population?'

- I've already said i can't answer that. But equally you cant answer what a reduction in TTK would be on that same playerbase without and assumption based on feeling, so i'm at a loss as to your point?

What i do think is, If out of 2.5million concurrent players only 67 of them can be bothered to vent their frustration on an 'issue' via a developer platform that the developer actively pushes disgruntled users towards to provide feedback it suggests to me that 'issue' isn't really an 'issue' to them.

'...In my experience they will try to retain those millions while still making the other side happy OR compromise.'

- Agreed, they'll have 1000's of metrics to run through alongside feedback forums and social media posting and will try not to alienate the 60% of people (based on my findings) that don't want to see a change in TTK.

Think we're in an agree to disagree. Having played the game and improved a lot over the last week there's nothing that's been said over 27 forum threads that has convinced me that overall TTK needs to change, or that a reduction in TTK would make the game better. Hope you keep playing, keep having fun and hopefully land a few more shots, to the point where you see that TTK isn't the issue it's being made out to be.

My grip with the current TTK is how, with 100% accuracy, using a SMG or AR you will only be able to down one person and half (we're talking targets with 100hp + 100 shield each) with about a max of 324 damage dealt with hemlock (best damage per mag from ARs) or 280 with prowler (best damage per mag from SMGs) before having to reload. On the other hand, shotguns like the PK can deal 660 damage (= 3.25 kills or so) and EVA-8 can deal 504 damage (= 2.5 kills or so) before having to reload. 

It's also pretty damm rare that fights happen in that "sweet spot" range at which it's hard for shotgun pellets to land but it is still close enough for the SMGs to land their rounds will being full auto. About 9 times out of 10, fights either happen at medium/long range where an AR, LMG, wingman or sniper rifle is incredibly better to use, or it's in extremely close CQC where the shotguns trump everything (ie: around and inside buildings). 

Pk needs a nerf, EVA-8 needs a tiny nerf (everybody and their hamsters run with those 2) plus alternator needs a significant buff (it's almost as bad as the P2020) and prowler also needs a buff (more on the prowler and it's issues with https://youtu.be/nWlZtxyzryU ).

@TrueDivinorium thanks for trying to make the discussion rational... you've said everything I would say. I like the TTK where it is. I like the way you distilled it down to "a flank gives you an advantage, not necessarily a kill". I prefer the game this way, because even if I get flanked, and they chunk me out, I have a fighting chance of outplaying them... Instead of PUBG, which is much more driven by circle RNG and flank headshots from enemies you didn't have a chance to react to.  

If anything, I think we need to *increase* TTK for shotguns... especially the choked peacemaker... 

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@TSF_VindictiV wrote:

My grip with the current TTK is how, with 100% accuracy, using a SMG or AR you will only be able to down one person and half (we're talking targets with 100hp + 100 shield each) with about a max of 324 damage dealt with hemlock (best damage per mag from ARs) or 280 with prowler (best damage per mag from SMGs) before having to reload. On the other hand, shotguns like the PK can deal 660 damage (= 3.25 kills or so) and EVA-8 can deal 504 damage (= 2.5 kills or so) before having to reload. 

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I'm not sure what is wrong with peacemaker, but in a game with long TTK, it's awkward when peacemaker can down you in 1 second from full armor. I think it might be the combined effect of the choke plus headshot bonuses... Maybe the peacemaker headshot damage should be nerfed, because you're not going to be able to stop people from choking it and landing headshots. 

@Kuro466  It's simply the fact that, like I explained just above, the PK (and EVA-8 to a lesser extent) can drop people before you can react. On top of it's ridiculously high damage per shot, the UI does a poor job of telling you how damaged you are if you don't have the time to take your eyes off your target to look at your hp. So while it takes people 20-30+ rounds (taking into consideration the missed rounds) to down somebody with any other non-sniper weapons in the game (with full purple/gold shield), the PK can down you in litterally 2 shots at the body even if you have max purple/golden shield (one shot = 110 damage). So while you can count in your head the amount of bullets you ate from say a SMG, AR or LMG and have a mental guess-timation of how much hp you have left without having to look at your hp bar, you cannot do that with shotguns because the feedback on your screen from eating a single pellet is the same as eating the whole buckshot. 

On top of all that, if you watch https://youtu.be/9PfFPW9a90w you will understand that the game has TERRIBLE networking issues to the point where the fact that low refresh/tick rate (Hz) plus how laggers can be rewarded for having garbage internet (because as long as they see you, they can shoot you even though you would be actually behind cover for a while already) can lead to a LOT of "WTF" moments where you shouldn't have died or you should have killed somebody but it didn't happen not because you (the low pinger with good accuracy) failed somewhere but because you were facing a lagging Piece of S. 

Put all that together and you end up with a fantastic amount of rage inducing WTF moments caused by weapons that dish a ton of damage per shot such as the PK and EVA-8 (and longbow/wingman/triple take but only with headshots which takes skill unlike shotguns). 

Finally, even if they did fixed the networking and hp-loss feedback issues, the shotguns would still completely trump SMGs. Hence why they need to be toned down while the Prowler and Alternator both need to be buffed. The R-99 is good but requires a lot more recoil management and accuracy than if you're using a shotgun. 

I once got downed at the moment I shot someone. My shot still traveled towards the enemy and he didn't move out of the way but it didn't count. So that was fun. Great networking.

About the weapons problem:

Peacekeeper 
I feel that it needs to be a "finesse" shotgun, high risk high reward. If i would tweak it i would keep the damage but reduce the magazine size to 2 shoots or a very shy maybe to 3. As it's right now there's enough shots so you can just jump in and miss 2/3 and still down someone.

Evo
I don't feel like this weapon is overpowered, not with the peacekeeper in the game. Also the game needs a noobtube, what's now the peacekeeper, to give a chance to less skilled players. I would keep it as it's. I don't even feel like it's a good weapon in my sincere opinion. But again it may be because of the Peacekeeper and because i play on PC.

Wingman
While this weapon is only good in the hands of very few players. When it's good it's GOOD. It's in a strange spot where it has enough alpha damage to 2 shoot anything below purple armour (2 HS for 90 damage = 180 damage)
It doesn't suffer from range problems like the peacekeeper and can be used without having to charge it.
Also let's not forget about the magazine size that goes up to 12. Meaning the potential to kill 6 non purple players, 4 purple or 2 if you don't go for headshots.
Also lets not forget it's a pistol, i might be wrong here but that means a faster ads move speed.(At least that's what feel like when in comparison with the spitfire)
So i dunno, i know the wingman is a finesse weapon that rewards accuracy but i feel that when you have such accuracy it make everything else, with the exception being maybe the peacekeeper, completely irrelevant. And that smells like a problem in itself.
If i it was me i would reduce the damage to 30 in body shoots and maybe increase the damage multiplier of HS to 70. But oh boy.... if respawn does that i can already hear the screams of some players.

But again that's just me.

I like the idea of the peacemaker going to 2 or 3 shot magazine.

If this was done, the evo-8 would have more identity as the large clip shotgun. I would then widen the spray on the evo8 to make it easier for new players to land something, but hard or impossible to lane every pellet.