I'm a day 1 player and have loved the game ever since, but if there's one thing I've learned whilst playing, its that Apex doesn't know how to nerf things properly. First my beloved Pathfinder and now Caustic. Poor dude went from deadly poisonous gas to mildly bad smell. It takes 2 gas traps to kill someone and 1 health tick from a Lifeline drone to out heal his ultimate. This has probably already been addressed by almost everybody by now and Apex knows they messed up, so I have no doubt that they'll fix this. I just want to say how I feel about the whole situation. I just think Apex gets lazy with their nerfs that's all, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt because it is hard to balance Caustic.

@Peri_Longbow_plz, I get what you mean with no matter how many good points you make, you'll always be greeted with "yes, but...". All I'm trying to say is that Caustic was a little overdue for a nerf, which is fair. But they made him into a joke in my opinion, his gas doesn't feel like a threat anymore, it feels like an inconvenience.

@MildSmile1 Caustic is basically in the same position as wattson now, the defenses are there for show but other than that they don’t provide enough risk factor so the enemy team doesn’t mind pushing through themImo defensive legends should theoretically be the strongest legends in the game, they need to be strong in order to defend otherwise they are basically just a nuisance with no benefical defense... wattson is only in a better place rn due to her ultimate without that she would by far be one of the worst legends in the game and caustic isn’t far behind I havn’t seen nearly as many caustics lately which isn’t a bad thing but goes to show he was a bit over nerfed

@Peri_Longbow_plzThis right here ladies and gentleman, is a dumb statement. Maybe you should take a look at the caustic subreddit first before posting as if you know how all caustics play and then comeback.Before the nerf there were 2 different kind of caustic players. Campers and aggressive pushers with his ult while leaving his traps behind to slow down teams trying to third party. With his nerfs this killed both playstyles completely to the point you now have to hard camp to the end of the game, avoiding as many gunfights just so you can get a slight advantage now at the final circle.The entire point of the gas is to DETER players from blind pushing and create space. At this current time this does not do this anymore. You actually see any casutics in game now? Most stopped playing him because people are no longer caring about the gas at all and just push through it while having a high rate of success.It's like saying remove Bloodhound's scan and ult because it makes using a gun too easy. No, its part of the character and entire point of the character being made to begin with.

@RockDokRock Couldn't have said it better than myself, Caustic was more than people who didn't play him thought he was. Anyone who plays Apex knows the feeling of squad after squad after squad, one after another, which is why Caustics gas wasn't just protection to camp in, it was an aid for mid battle situations such as resing your teammate, pulling off a quick batt or even just time to think. Sometimes the whole point of his ultimate was pushing people out of houses, putting pressure on people or like I said before, a quick break from the battle to res, heal, etc. Gas is something that people shouldn't be comfortable to stay in, it should be a threat that people are supposed to take seriously and get out of as soon as they can. Yeah, the gas was pretty overpowered for most people, but now it almost feels like a joke.@Peri_Longbow_plz , I get where you're coming from but if you mained Caustic then you'd know that its not all about relying on your gas, but its about how you use it in certain situations.

@RockDokRock Most of the Caustic players I see pop his abilities passively. Which is - by the way - the one thing many people want him to be. You already create a situation, but instead of proactively managing it, they're instead deciding to believe the ability needs to be working all by itself. Of course enemies are going to push your location if you're not actively fencing them off. That's the point though. Almost every other ability requires you to actively engage the enemy. Mother-lode doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Wattson Fence doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Sonar doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Beast of the Hunt doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Neither should the Gas.Caustic is that kind of character that was introduced for the sake of creating an iconic theme, despite the theme not exactly fitting into the game. Which of course makes it difficult to adjust/rework him in such a way that his theme still makes sense while creating a character that is used as much as every other character, WHILE not being a frustration factor. Yes, yes - I get it. "His abilities are meant to be frustrating to fight against" - I'm still believing that every fight should be exciting so you can say in the aftermath that it was actually a good fight. Every second spent on a fight is another second you give a third party squad to raid you. So not just are you blocked off to fight the original enemies, now you have to fight another one. Great!Bangalore's ult already has a disadvantage. Longer fuse time, it's announced for long enough and is blocked off by obstacles and roofs. So it's use is limited. Still not a bad ability because you make people run quickly into a singular direction. Time to beam them down.The point is that Caustic has always been a thorn in my eye. Again, I wouldn't mind his Hitbox size reduced. But having his gas reverted to the original state is a definitive no for me.@MildSmile1 Yes. If you main a certain character, your opinion about them is automatically different. Doesn't even matter if the character is actually statistically overused or overpowered in that regard. Why would you want to make your most used character weaker? So in this case it doesn't matter if I put out good points or not, I will always be greeted with "Yes, but... [add myriad of reasons here how weak he is]"

Can We Just Talk About How You Can Out Heal Caustics Ultimate With 1 Syringe Now

32 Replies

Peri_Longbow_pl
5 years ago
There is one thing I can agree on. Caustic perhaps requires a smaller hitbox. Not a drastic size reduction, but a small one. But out of all the things you could criticize on this legend, it has always been the fact he's either useless outside of camping spots or that his gas deals too little damage now.
I'm sorry if what I'm saying is going to offend anyone... But if your best argument is that caustic gas can now be out-healed by a syringe, you rely on the gas more than on the weapons you carry. That Caustic isn't really good has something to do what the game is about. Which is also a reason why you suddenly see a huge rush of Octane/Bangalore/Bloodhound players around right now. Which is a topic I should also address sometime. Can already smell the heated discussion.
RockDokRock
Seasoned Ace
5 years ago
Legends have strengths/weaknesses. If your ultimate ability (which takes a minute longer to charge now) can be pretty much nullified with a syringe then there is a problem. Not sure how that's not a valid observation. Sure, ability to engage in combat and fight is great but Caustic has a larger hitbox and doesn't have the tank like abilities of Gibraltar. Out in the open for a straight gunfight (which seems to be what people are saying you should be done... "if you can't shoot", etc) he's at a disadvantage. It's not a run'n'gun character. Not sure why people can't appreciate different playstyles and strategies other than rush and shoot.
- DR
Peri_Longbow_pl
5 years ago
@RockDokRock I'm not criticizing or judging the play style. I'm using Rampart most of the time, all I do is sit behind a wall. So tell me about sitting behind something. For me it's one number worse because my ultimate can't be thrown.

But I'm genuinely curious... You throw your ultimate. And then? You just wait and then attack once it's done?
RockDokRock
Seasoned Ace
5 years ago
I have been playing rampart a bit as of late. When the minigun works it's a beast :-P
RE: Ultimate. It depends.
If I'm clever and trap them I just let the gas do it's work. That's hard to pull off though.
I use it in different scenarios. I'll use it as cover/deterrent to get a teammate up (since they took away the blurring this is not as effective a usage anymore unfortunately), use it to block off/discourage pushing into an area (or to herd them to where I *do* want them) I don't want the enemy or use it offensively and go in guns blazing. It depends on what is unfolding in front of me and what seems to make the most sense at the time.
- DR
Peri_Longbow_pl
5 years ago
@RockDokRock It's somewhat as I suspected. It's the mindset that the gas should do everything single-handedly. May it be blocking off paths entirely, or providing perfect cover or putting enemy teams at a significant disadvantage. I think this is what Respawn/EA want to go away from.

Truth be told, there are better ways to adjust the gas. Like that one can ignite the gas to explode an area. Which could be a tactical use for both Caustic and enemies
RockDokRock
Seasoned Ace
5 years ago
But it doesn't do everything single handedly. People push through it sometimes. Your aim has to be bang on with the grenade to get it to work. If you are doing it in an open area outside it is less effective. You read the situation wrong. Didn't see that Wattson pylon? Oh, you just lost your ultimate. You are simplyfying it too much. It's the legend's abilities and I'm using it as you should do. Do you suggest reducing Bangalore's air strike to do 5 damage per rocket? No? What's the difference?
Do you have a problem with Rampart's barriers/shields (and a strategically placed mingun or two, you can have up to 3 at once last I tried) making an area inaccessible putting the other team at a significant disadvantage? Got to get it rght though for it work? Not easy. This is no different. If you plan ahead with Rampart and can see what is coming it's incredibly powerful abilities that can totally screw the opposition. I am not sure how this is different. A bit more dynamic but still difficult to pull off.
Perhaps the most telling point, Caustic is amongst the bottom tier picked legends. If he was so abusive why is this the case?
- DR
MildSmile1
5 years ago
@RockDokRock Couldn't have said it better than myself, Caustic was more than people who didn't play him thought he was. Anyone who plays Apex knows the feeling of squad after squad after squad, one after another, which is why Caustics gas wasn't just protection to camp in, it was an aid for mid battle situations such as resing your teammate, pulling off a quick batt or even just time to think. Sometimes the whole point of his ultimate was pushing people out of houses, putting pressure on people or like I said before, a quick break from the battle to res, heal, etc. Gas is something that people shouldn't be comfortable to stay in, it should be a threat that people are supposed to take seriously and get out of as soon as they can. Yeah, the gas was pretty overpowered for most people, but now it almost feels like a joke.
@Peri_Longbow_plz , I get where you're coming from but if you mained Caustic then you'd know that its not all about relying on your gas, but its about how you use it in certain situations.
RockDokRock
Seasoned Ace
5 years ago
Exactly! Thanks!
Peri_Longbow_pl
5 years ago
@RockDokRock Most of the Caustic players I see pop his abilities passively. Which is - by the way - the one thing many people want him to be. You already create a situation, but instead of proactively managing it, they're instead deciding to believe the ability needs to be working all by itself. Of course enemies are going to push your location if you're not actively fencing them off. That's the point though. Almost every other ability requires you to actively engage the enemy. Mother-lode doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Wattson Fence doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Sonar doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Beast of the Hunt doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Neither should the Gas.
Caustic is that kind of character that was introduced for the sake of creating an iconic theme, despite the theme not exactly fitting into the game. Which of course makes it difficult to adjust/rework him in such a way that his theme still makes sense while creating a character that is used as much as every other character, WHILE not being a frustration factor. Yes, yes - I get it. "His abilities are meant to be frustrating to fight against" - I'm still believing that every fight should be exciting so you can say in the aftermath that it was actually a good fight. Every second spent on a fight is another second you give a third party squad to raid you. So not just are you blocked off to fight the original enemies, now you have to fight another one. Great!
Bangalore's ult already has a disadvantage. Longer fuse time, it's announced for long enough and is blocked off by obstacles and roofs. So it's use is limited. Still not a bad ability because you make people run quickly into a singular direction. Time to beam them down.
The point is that Caustic has always been a thorn in my eye. Again, I wouldn't mind his Hitbox size reduced. But having his gas reverted to the original state is a definitive no for me.
@MildSmile1 Yes. If you main a certain character, your opinion about them is automatically different. Doesn't even matter if the character is actually statistically overused or overpowered in that regard. Why would you want to make your most used character weaker? So in this case it doesn't matter if I put out good points or not, I will always be greeted with "Yes, but... [add myriad of reasons here how weak he is]"
MildSmile1
5 years ago
@Peri_Longbow_plz, I get what you mean with no matter how many good points you make, you'll always be greeted with "yes, but...". All I'm trying to say is that Caustic was a little overdue for a nerf, which is fair. But they made him into a joke in my opinion, his gas doesn't feel like a threat anymore, it feels like an inconvenience.