I'm a day 1 player and have loved the game ever since, but if there's one thing I've learned whilst playing, its that Apex doesn't know how to nerf things properly. First my beloved Pathfinder and now Caustic. Poor dude went from deadly poisonous gas to mildly bad smell. It takes 2 gas traps to kill someone and 1 health tick from a Lifeline drone to out heal his ultimate. This has probably already been addressed by almost everybody by now and Apex knows they messed up, so I have no doubt that they'll fix this. I just want to say how I feel about the whole situation. I just think Apex gets lazy with their nerfs that's all, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt because it is hard to balance Caustic.

@Peri_Longbow_plz, I get what you mean with no matter how many good points you make, you'll always be greeted with "yes, but...". All I'm trying to say is that Caustic was a little overdue for a nerf, which is fair. But they made him into a joke in my opinion, his gas doesn't feel like a threat anymore, it feels like an inconvenience.

@MildSmile1 Caustic is basically in the same position as wattson now, the defenses are there for show but other than that they don’t provide enough risk factor so the enemy team doesn’t mind pushing through themImo defensive legends should theoretically be the strongest legends in the game, they need to be strong in order to defend otherwise they are basically just a nuisance with no benefical defense... wattson is only in a better place rn due to her ultimate without that she would by far be one of the worst legends in the game and caustic isn’t far behind I havn’t seen nearly as many caustics lately which isn’t a bad thing but goes to show he was a bit over nerfed

@Peri_Longbow_plzThis right here ladies and gentleman, is a dumb statement. Maybe you should take a look at the caustic subreddit first before posting as if you know how all caustics play and then comeback.Before the nerf there were 2 different kind of caustic players. Campers and aggressive pushers with his ult while leaving his traps behind to slow down teams trying to third party. With his nerfs this killed both playstyles completely to the point you now have to hard camp to the end of the game, avoiding as many gunfights just so you can get a slight advantage now at the final circle.The entire point of the gas is to DETER players from blind pushing and create space. At this current time this does not do this anymore. You actually see any casutics in game now? Most stopped playing him because people are no longer caring about the gas at all and just push through it while having a high rate of success.It's like saying remove Bloodhound's scan and ult because it makes using a gun too easy. No, its part of the character and entire point of the character being made to begin with.

@RockDokRock Couldn't have said it better than myself, Caustic was more than people who didn't play him thought he was. Anyone who plays Apex knows the feeling of squad after squad after squad, one after another, which is why Caustics gas wasn't just protection to camp in, it was an aid for mid battle situations such as resing your teammate, pulling off a quick batt or even just time to think. Sometimes the whole point of his ultimate was pushing people out of houses, putting pressure on people or like I said before, a quick break from the battle to res, heal, etc. Gas is something that people shouldn't be comfortable to stay in, it should be a threat that people are supposed to take seriously and get out of as soon as they can. Yeah, the gas was pretty overpowered for most people, but now it almost feels like a joke.@Peri_Longbow_plz , I get where you're coming from but if you mained Caustic then you'd know that its not all about relying on your gas, but its about how you use it in certain situations.

@RockDokRock Most of the Caustic players I see pop his abilities passively. Which is - by the way - the one thing many people want him to be. You already create a situation, but instead of proactively managing it, they're instead deciding to believe the ability needs to be working all by itself. Of course enemies are going to push your location if you're not actively fencing them off. That's the point though. Almost every other ability requires you to actively engage the enemy. Mother-lode doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Wattson Fence doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Sonar doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Beast of the Hunt doesn't do anything if you just sit there. Neither should the Gas.Caustic is that kind of character that was introduced for the sake of creating an iconic theme, despite the theme not exactly fitting into the game. Which of course makes it difficult to adjust/rework him in such a way that his theme still makes sense while creating a character that is used as much as every other character, WHILE not being a frustration factor. Yes, yes - I get it. "His abilities are meant to be frustrating to fight against" - I'm still believing that every fight should be exciting so you can say in the aftermath that it was actually a good fight. Every second spent on a fight is another second you give a third party squad to raid you. So not just are you blocked off to fight the original enemies, now you have to fight another one. Great!Bangalore's ult already has a disadvantage. Longer fuse time, it's announced for long enough and is blocked off by obstacles and roofs. So it's use is limited. Still not a bad ability because you make people run quickly into a singular direction. Time to beam them down.The point is that Caustic has always been a thorn in my eye. Again, I wouldn't mind his Hitbox size reduced. But having his gas reverted to the original state is a definitive no for me.@MildSmile1 Yes. If you main a certain character, your opinion about them is automatically different. Doesn't even matter if the character is actually statistically overused or overpowered in that regard. Why would you want to make your most used character weaker? So in this case it doesn't matter if I put out good points or not, I will always be greeted with "Yes, but... [add myriad of reasons here how weak he is]"

Can We Just Talk About How You Can Out Heal Caustics Ultimate With 1 Syringe Now

32 Replies

RockDokRock
Seasoned Ace
5 years ago
Can you give a link to that info? Those aren’t even close to the numbers I’m seeing reported.
Ironflower196
5 years ago
https://www.reddit.com/user/DanielZKlein/
Ironflower196
5 years ago
@RockDokRock I tried tagging you klein is like the main developer.
TheApexLegendNu
5 years ago
@MildSmile1 Caustic is basically in the same position as wattson now, the defenses are there for show but other than that they don’t provide enough risk factor so the enemy team doesn’t mind pushing through them

Imo defensive legends should theoretically be the strongest legends in the game, they need to be strong in order to defend otherwise they are basically just a nuisance with no benefical defense... wattson is only in a better place rn due to her ultimate without that she would by far be one of the worst legends in the game and caustic isn’t far behind I havn’t seen nearly as many caustics lately which isn’t a bad thing but goes to show he was a bit over nerfed
BarretOblivion
5 years ago
@Ironflower196 Read his post and think logically. One of the reasons for the nerf was watson and Rampart were seeing no picks compared to caustic. The reason was something any defensive player could tell you alongside pros. They just suck. Caustic was the only viable character that could hold down a position that would slow rushers down. He now like watson and the others can no longer do what he was originally designed for without his slows and blinding effects back. Caustic is now in a worse state than season 1 where he was the worst legend in the game.
Peri_Longbow_pl
5 years ago
The last thing I want to see in Apex Legends is encouraged camping and buildings being turned into fortresses. Temporary solutions to fortify a place for safe rejuvenation and reviving people is fine. But anything beyond that will quickly become popular in the lower and casual stages simply because it provides safety and easy payouts.
If a character provides a powerful solution for short-term protection - emphasis being put on short-term but powerful - then I wouldn't even mind Caustic's gas being reverted to the old damage, including blinding, slowing, perhaps even loss of accuracy for the affected people. Same goes for Wattson. Rampart as well. Or any defensive character. But at the same time, this has to entail either limiting the time available of protection, or working with diminishing returns and long cooldowns.
BarretOblivion
5 years ago
@Peri_Longbow_plz Then delete all defense characters then outside of gibby. They are always going to control an area, that's how every BR works at the last few circles if there is a power position. Your argument should be used on attacking characters too. Mobility is always going to be the most powerful in these types of games.
Peri_Longbow_pl
5 years ago
I have criticized mobility for a very long time now. They're the most versatile because mobility never hurts to have, and usually provides a nifty advantage in every situation. Honestly why I would prefer to see buffs in other areas of the game.
Most defensive characters are falling behind because their usability is limited to stationary holding. Rampart' Sheila and Amped covers only provide advantages into one direction and are stationary. Caustic's gas has limited range and utility, and is limited to stationary holding. His ultimate in that regard is semi-stationary. Wattson's Fences are also stationary, very conditional and can be extremely easily destroyed. Her Pylon provides a good utility though. Gibby on the other hand combines a good chunk of mobility with damage and defense. More of a bruiser type than defensive, really. To be honest, Rampart, Caustic and Wattson require proper hitboxes as well as passives which are useful outside of buildings, while their tacticals and ultimates should be adjusted as temporary, almost impenetrable solutions similar to Gibby.
I feel like the classes which fell behind the most are support and utility. Until we had the new Lifeline passive, support and utility never really had a significant impact. For a long time, I Played Loba, but rarely felt like my class as a supportive character is sufficient enough. Whilst the strategy of grabbing body shields from around the area for quick swapping is a good one, it's not one I would consider exclusive to Loba.
In my personal opinion, classes should work like this:
Support - Provide direct and indirect advantages for the whole team in both combat and outside of it.
Assault - Front-line characters who specialize in damage, quick movement at the cost of durability.
Defense - Tougher characters in general or characters who provide temporary solutions for holding an area, limited to the time available to do such.
Scout - Fast and nimble characters which lack combat features, but can quickly jungle from place to place to provide information.
burnzey91
5 years ago
I'd say caustic is a D tier legend.
Gas damage significantly reduced. Movement no longer affected. Vision impairment no longer a thing (this makes his passive worthless), traps are easily destroyed and his ultimate now takes forever to charge.
He's also easily countered with Cryptos drone ult, wattsons ult makes caustics ultimate redundant
MildSmile1
5 years ago
Well, this turned out to be way more controversial than I thought. Originally when I made this post I was just speaking my mind at the time, and I thought that everyone was on the same page, but I was genuinely surprised to see how split the opinions were. Do I still stand by my opinion that Caustic needs a buff/rework? Yes, but both sides of this topic have made really good points and @Peri_Longbow_plz even made me rethink about some of the points that I made as well.
This is probably (hopefully) going to be my last (official) response talking about the whole situation. I'm probably gonna go back to making buff ideas for random characters lol. Anyways, have a good rest of your day and goodbye.

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Can We Just Talk About How You Can Out Heal Caustics Ultimate With 1 Syringe Now

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