Caustic's Defensive "Roll"

Geckur0
4 years ago
the gas traps being indestructible were a huge broken problem, as others have pointed out. games were ending with literally just caustic hiding behind his traps with no counterplay because they couldnt be destroyed. and why should their health be buffed to have the same health as something thats entire purpose is to block bullets? i dont even play caustic and i can tell a lot of people here simply have the wrong idea about him. hes not any kind of trapper, he doesnt have some hunter background like bloodhound. hes a mad scientist. the entire point of his character is area denial. ive also seen people in this thread complain that people respect his area denial by immediately backing out, then in the next sentence complain about idiots that push through the gas and fight you anyway. so which is it, do you want people to respect your space, or push in and fight you at a disadvantage? people wont be happy until their character is either invincible or can kill someone outright with their tactical.
someone said they should be able to layer the ultimate on top of the gas trap damage, and i think thats reasonable. i also think his traps should disappear if he moves far enough away from them, say 100-200m. far enough that you arent going to run into one just at random, because thats annoying for the victim, and only provides random evo damage to the caustic and nothing else.
- Monhulio
  4 years ago
  @Geckur0 Actually someone randomly running into a gas trap, at any range, is part of his best qualities. I can see which trap you've triggered, how far away your team is, and even prevent you from bunkering in a building I previously left for a few moments. OR hinder you on your way to ring by filling a tunnel and preventing your advance. These are actually caustic's strong points, what you are attempting to make out as pointless is incorrect and since you said it yourself "I don't play caustic" so asking for MORE nerfs isn't appropriate, because you literally are asking to break his legs without having actually experienced the problems when playing him.
  
  With regards to people respecting or not respecting the gas, the problem is his lategame ranked play is great, just look at his pickrate during ALGS, but elsewhere his performance drops because of skill gap. There are two sides of the spectrum. The cautious enemy players respect the gas, allowing the traps to do the job of area denial. However the reckless and / or skilled player pushes through and ignores the gas. The problem is there is no punishment for this. There is very small consequences for someone bulling past the gas when they know you are at a disadvantage beyond it, taking 10 at best pips of damage. We can no longer put the traps in plain sight, so layering gas traps is even more difficult covering an area, ontop of being basically neutered if the ring should end in an open field, at which point I can't deny an area with anything other than my ultimate, which has a 3m cooldown. His kit is out of date compared to the other defensive legends, most of which have a long lasting ultimate that continues to work while caustic has only one chance to stop you from advancing should the gas traps fail or be useless because of the location.
  
  As for the gas being indestructible I agree that was an issue, as invincible walls are bad.
  
  I don't want to outright kill you with my tactical, I want to be able to defend with something other than my ultimate if you swoop in from behind catching my character unaware. I want to hold down a building properly without having to literally drown my teammates in my own gas doing so (because it hinders allies sight too). I want my damn tactical to be a colour other than lime * green so I can see the damn outline properly.
  
  I want a balanced character database that doesn't take a plural of SEASONS to achieve.
  - BigMacAttack8u
    Seasoned Ace
    4 years ago
    @Monhulio I have the perfect solution to caustics problems.
    1. Increase gas trap health, as of now it is silly, and useless. Newcastle’s tactical has a lot of health, and is also mobile, gas traps are stationary. We just need more health for them, so there isn’t so much of an easy out.
    
    2. Gas trap damage should be a constant 10 damage. This is not as extreme a change as you think. It reduces the amount of time you can sit in the gas without dying from 13 seconds to 10. It makes it more scary to push through making it a more effective deterrent.
    
    3. Make his ult have a large linger effect, it would hit you, then you can exit, and it would linger on you for 3 seconds, decreeing from 10 to 5, then 2. You would also look like you had a little bit of gas around you, for the visual during this.
    
    4. Remove highlighted passive, he is defensive, not recon. Instead, implement healing catalyst, a perk from mobile. It allows for faster healing and reviving while he actively in HIS gas. Passive is an does not extend teammates.
    
    These points form the perfect way to fix caustic, and make him viable.
- 0v0_legendz
  4 years ago
  "ive also seen people in this thread complain that people respect his area denial by immediately backing out, then in the next sentence complain about idiots that push through the gas and fight you anyway. so which is it, do you want people to respect your space, or push in and fight you at a disadvantage?"
  
  
  I think the issue here is that, Both of these scenarios, happen to be counterproductive. I don't think anyone here is asking for caustic to become Superman.
  
  I've practically only played caustic since S1, and the problem with caustic is for most situations, His gas is only effective as the enemy allows it to be.
  If a player walks into a trap , or his gas, they can generally back off, or full send it and just keep pushing and shooting.Nox gas does not stun players it causes slow, in which ur momentum gradually decreases. this means if a player runs into a gas trap with the intent on shooting, they are going to be forced into a walking state, but they were going to be walking anyways since they planned on shooting.
  
  So the first issue is, the gas does not stop aggression reliably, without you being in
  6 places at once , and that does not include all the shooting , reloading , healing and trapping you will be doing in between. It is very easy for a player to slide jump through a gas cloud or a trapped door, and blindsided you as they take their first tick dmg.
  
  The second issue is Caustic , has a large hitbox, and a very static hitbox, with a big head/crit hitbox. He does not fair well in close quarter engagements, or in general without his gas. I believe the reason for his hitbox was to justify his abilities, but this also means he needs to be utilizing his abilities, in order to avoid being an easy target.
  
  The problem here is that his abilities do not Provide much if his enemies do not completely interact with his gas. If an enemy sets off a trap, and backs off, it limits caustics visibility, and he has to replace that trap, before 13 seconds pass. Ultimately it ends up becoming a hindrance to both players, and yet it isn't Bangalore smoke either, so it's not creating a safe viel for you to reset in, it just creates , more confusion and makes it harder for you to make any extroverted plays, and as time passes your general position remains the same, while the enemies position, can vary to all sorts.
  
  If the situation stagnates Caustics Defense becomes a double edged sword in that, if he does not overturn the pace of an engagement before his kit runs out, he can become trapped himself. Caustic can not sustain, like a wattson can, and caustic can not provide drastic AoE and support like a Gibby can. It's not just a theme when caustic calls his traps variables.
  
  This is possibly why some people complain about both types of reactions to his gas abilities.
  
  Generally, the amount of time you will spend getting, solid use out of his ability is minor to the amount of time you will spend using his ability, and not getting much out of it.
  
  The amount of time spent in a match where his abilities aren't viable is also significantly greater.
  
  he's the only defensive legend, that can not Truly deny an enemy player of anything.
  His abilities are not guaranteed to provide desirable , consistent results.
  he can't stop bullets, he can't stop players from getting close, he can't stop ordinance and he can't stop revives.
  
  His abilities do not create, or provide either, players do not heal quicker, gain health shields, damage, etc.
  
  I believe caustics entire kit should be considered for a rework, and more in tune with the pace of apex and his role

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