Forum Discussion

nebwise's avatar
5 years ago

Feature Request: FR DUMMIE 2.0

Problem: Mobility plays an increasingly out-sized role in Apex Legends fights, yet many (if not most) players have difficulty combining movement and fire (especially on consoles). Despite the demonstrated benefits of having jumping and running targets to practice against (see Rogue Company, COD), AL has no realistic movements in the firing range. While it may be possible to practice against teammates, this approach has many practical limits and does not offer the precise repeatability needed to hone certain skills.

However, if the firing-range dummies were to move better, how should they move?


Solution: Upgrade the firing range to allow players to "activate" the static target dummies, and set them moving on user-defined paths using a Wattson-style way-point system.

By leveraging existing UX and AI assets, this would revolutionize the utility of the firing range with minimal additional development cost. It would be a boon to both solo and team practice sessions, providing a simple and powerful way for players to communicate strategies by plotting, observing, refining, and sharing repeatable patterns.


Mock-up:

  1. User approaches DUMMIE, is prompted to press "use" key to activate the DUMMIE.


  2. Waypoint AI is activated, allowing user to place a reasonably limited sequence of way-point nodes following the conventions of Wattson's fence placement UI/UX.


  3. DUMMIE re-spawns at the first node, and runs from node-to-node until it reaches the last in the sequence and reverses course ("ping-pong" sequencing). This pattern repeats until the DUMMIE is killed and re-spawns at the first node.


  4. Waypoints may be removed. A sequenced DUMMIE resets to normal when all waypoints are removed. Dummies with a single waypoint stand still, or may dodge and juke when fired at.

Rationale:

It's easy. Most of the assets needed to build this already exist. Most players are already familiar with the essential UX/UI conventions, and the solution would extend the pathing and movement heuristics that the dummies already use. Since the system doesn't have robust AI, it should be lightweight on the client/server landscape as well.

It's needed. Apex game play is increasingly dynamic and vertical, and the current solution doesn't address this effectively. While some players have improvised imaginative approaches to target practice, it is still difficult or impossible to simulate common scenarios where understanding and reacting to a nuanced, moving hitbox is key (vertical and diagonal transitions, cover, dodging, climbing, etc).

It's sustainable. Once a robust waypoint-DUMMIE system is deployed, it need only be maintained (and not redeveloped every few seasons). As AL introduces new gameplay and mechanics, players simply respond by creating new, better exercises.

It's accessible. Players new to AL and the FPS genre have a substantial skills gap to fill. Better practice equates to quicker on-boarding of new players, and should lead directly to higher player satisfaction and retention. For those with neuro/cognitive disabilities, these tools are vital for adapting to the confounding complexity of fine-motor coordination and complex sensory integration tasks (aiming + recoil control + irregularly moving targets).

It saves time. Specific practice achieves specific results in less time, compared to generalized or ill-fitting exercises. Well-defined exercises will save players time, allowing them to play more games.

- Neb

10 Replies

  • @nebwise Also allow the AI to "track" how you move around the area and then follows the path you left, including using the same abilites as the legend you are playing as. You could use it to practice dealing with certain situations, such as a Valk in the air, a Revenant team, etc.
  • nebwise's avatar
    nebwise
    5 years ago
    @Midnight9746 Is this to expand the current "moving DUMMIE" AI in the firing range, or in addition to the DUMMIE 2.0 concept? I don't see how your idea would fit with automated dummies moving on a linear track.
  • @nebwise Basically we should be able to control the dummies similiar to a mirage decoy to make them do the path we want them to take but I also like midnights suggestion to practice oddball things like horizon on a gravity lift, valkyrie in the air, someone on a zipline or jump pad, etc
  • Midnight9746's avatar
    Midnight9746
    Hero+
    5 years ago
    @TheApexLegendNub @nebwise essentially what I meant is that you "automate" a rail system that goes off how you moved. So you could run, throw down a gravity lift, go up it, jump off, slide, then zip, and the dummy can just keep that pathing up just to help you with dealing with gravity lifts being used, tracking when they jump off, using zips and whatnot. Its like the Wattson nodes concept, except a bit more dynamic.
  • nebwise's avatar
    nebwise
    5 years ago
    @Midnight9746 Ok, yeah. You'd need some way to start and stop the sequence (like recording and looping a clip), and that might mean introducing some new device or UI to the game.

    You could use the waypoint UI, if all you wanted to do was place a start and stop point, i.e.: You activate the dummy, run to where you want the sequence to start, place the first point, do the sequence (it starts recording when you start moving), place the last point, shoot at the DUMMIE.

    From a dev perspective, it wouldn't be difficult to buffer and loop a few seconds of player input. It would also be an inherently stable approach, as players-controlling-characters is a core feature of the game.
  • nebwise's avatar
    nebwise
    5 years ago
    @Midnight9746 There would be issues with Legend abilities, though. To get realistic sequences you'd have to exempt your "clone" from cooldowns and some ability-related collision detection.

    Otherwise, there'd have to be some degree of AI to recognize and adapt to object placement, or a simple "dry-fire" policy that executes the input commands, but doesn't activate the abilities until the cooldowns reset (which would produce inconsistent DUMMIE sequences).

    That raises the specter of many corner cases to test through for game-crashing bugs. Imagine a Valk tactical on a really short loop: the whole range would continuously shake. You could set your automaton to pile up shields, totems, etc., in precisely the same spot every time it loops.

    At some point, I imagine that could crash the engine or the server.
  • Midnight9746's avatar
    Midnight9746
    Hero+
    5 years ago
    @nebwise hmm.. good point. Maybe just look like a legend and take on ther passives, like Gib/Caustic's damage reduction.
  • nebwise's avatar
    nebwise
    5 years ago
    @Midnight9746 That would be cool. Rogue Company does this with moving dummies that cycle through a different character model on each loop.
  • Thinking about adding UI to the endpoint way-points, and how much complexity could be worked in. Apex Legends doesn't have robust in-game menus. What would be a simple/effective way to add options such as looping style (simple loop, ping-pong, run-and-hold, etc.), and DUMMIE behavior (juking, run vs. walk, crouch and/or slide)?

    The simplest version of this would be great, but there's lot's of room to build, too.

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