Forum Discussion

Daddy_Whomper's avatar
7 years ago

Ideas for Caustic buffs (in addition to upcoming ones)

Here are some ways I think Caustic could be buffed and made more fun to play, while still maintaining the main theme of his kit:

I’ll put a tl;dr here because this is a long one:

1. His canister toss animation should take half as long

2. If he presses the ability button again during the toss animation, the canister should automatically activate as soon as it fully inflates

3. The gas of his ult should remain in the world longer and should travel down inclined surfaces

4. Passive ability addition - if Caustic damages an enemy in his gas, his team gains Nox Vision on that enemy until said enemy is eliminated or leaves the gas

1. Caustic should be feared when engaging him in close quarters. Right now in the state of the game unless caustic is set up in a building, engaging him in close quarters is not a risky endeavor. To refine this part of his kit I think the animation to toss the canister should take half as long, and the animation to inflate the canister should remain the same. This will allow caustic to set up his canisters mid-fight, allowing him to make good use of his active (as other characters can) during a fire fight.

2. Actively using his canisters is *too* active. If you want to use his canisters as a deterrent, smoke, or urgently in a close quarter fight, you not only have to wait for the entire animation of tossing and inflating, you then have to turn your aim towards it and fire at it. That extra time and attention away from enemies can get you killed. I think that during his toss animation if you push the ability button again then the canister should automatically activate as soon as it inflates. This would allow him to more fluidly and effectively use his canisters in an active manner.

3. Right now his ult is a little underwhelming in terms of a zoning ult. Bangalore’s ult has a large radius and doesn’t have super lethal damage, but unless you saw her throw the flair, you really don’t know if you are running away or further into her ult. Gibraltar’s ult has a smaller radius, but activates quickly and has pretty lethal damage. Compared to these other zoning ults, Caustic’s ult has a relatively small radius, is extremely visible, and does so little damage when it first activated that players normally have time to run out of the gas before the damage build up, unless they are forced to stay in it by map geometry or the closing circle. To fix this, I think that the gas from Caustic’s ult should stay in the world a little longer, and should travel downhill (like you would expect a dense gas to do). This way his ult is less static and can be used in a more strategic manner. If traveling downhill and low on health, he can use it as a moving smokescreen; if used in choke points or corridors with an incline he can use it to push enemies away or pull them towards him; these are just two examples.

4. Right now Caustic is sometimes a burden on the team because his gas affects his teammates. I don’t think this will go away because the premise of all abilities is that they affect all teams equally (gib dome shield, wraith portal, Bangalore ult slow, healing drone, etc) to force tactical decision making. However, since Caustic’s main kit ability is such a nuisance to his team, there should be an ability added to his passive called “Toxic Tracer”. Toxic Tracer works like this: if an enemy is in Caustic’s gas and Caustic hits them with any damage from a gun, then everyone in Caustic’s squad gains Nox Vision on that enemy until the enemy dies or leaves the gas. Although this does not rid the gas of slowing and distorting the HUD of teammates, it balances the gas a bit better by nerfing the overall blinding effect the gas has as a smokescreen, while still staying consistent with principles of the game and his kit.

Although there are a lot of things I’ve put here, these are just ideas. If all of them were implemented he might be a little bit over powered, but these are just some of my ideas. 

Of all of these, I would like to see #2  implemented because it would make Caustic more versatile. He could throw his canisters towards a team at the end of a hallway and duck behind a door while he waits for it to auto-activate and then make a break for it, or he could just toss them over rocks and use as delayed smoke grenades. Implementing #2 would give him the greatest edge in competing in a game where mobility is key.

5 Replies

  • Here are my thoughts on Caustic:

    I don't have a problem with him having a huge hitbox. I don't have a problem with him lacking mobility in a very mobility focused game. I don't have a problem with his passive and active abilities both being useless the vast majority of the time, as a result of the game being built around loot gathering and run-and-gun battles. I have a problem with the fact that even in the one scenario where is supposed to be good, he is still not a net benefit to your team. There are three reasons why this is the case:

    1) The gas affects his own team

    Caustics team doesn't take damage from his gas, but the damage is so low that doesn't matter. What matters is the debuff which affects both teams equally. What's worse, when an enemy team encounters a position being held by Caustics team, they will back out of the gas, and shoot into the room from OUTSIDE the gas. By contrast, Caustics team has to shoot out from INSIDE the gas. This makes it more a net loss for his team. Caustics team NEEDS to be immune to his gas. However, only the Caustic player himself should have immunity to an enemy Caustics gas.

    2) The damage is too low

    At the moment, each trap does trivial damage, but they all stack. This is bad design. In order to lock down an area, Caustic has to place traps at multiple entrances. This means his traps are spread out all over the place. The only way this can be a significant deterrent to a flanking opponent is if the damage of each individual trap is much higher and the debuff lasted longer. Personally I would increase trap damage by 3-5 times and take away the stacking property.

    3) The radius is too small, the effect is too short

    As it stands, players who run into Caustics traps just instantly back out of them, and instantly recover from the debuff. This means his traps can potentially prevent flanking in the right circumstances, but that shouldn't be the only thing Caustic does. His traps should be a serious threat to players who run into them. That means increasing trap radius or making the debuff last longer.

    Quite frankly, even if the Devs implemented all of my suggestions including the X5 damage multiplier, Caustic would still only be a mid tier character at best. This is simply because his abilities are useless in every scenario except defensively holding a position. A character with a large hitbox and abilities that are completely useless the majority of the time needs to be absolutely amazing in the rare circumstances when he gets to use his abilities just to be even be a "meh" character overall.

  • AyothaKAT's avatar
    AyothaKAT
    7 years ago

    If absolutely nothing else, his gas needs to not impede teammates.

    With both this and Lifeline's heal drone the devs seem confused on the idea of friend or foe

  • No the gas must affect teammates because every legend ability in Apex also affect teammates. 

    How you fix the problem though is to trade his 6 nox traps for 3 nox grenades that have a larger gas radius that does more damage that persists for a few seconds when leaving gas. the grenades allow him to be useful in non CQC situations. They stop the troll exploit where he can trap a squad mate in a room. they allow him to deploy gas away from his team so they can move freely in a fight while enemies are affected

  • AyothaKAT's avatar
    AyothaKAT
    7 years ago

    I was not aware Bangalore's smoke also slows her teammates