Knockdowns and damage give RP in ranked

@kellanammannWhat part did i miss? The very first line in your last reply to me..

''@apostolateofDOOM But you couldn't farm more than, say, 200 damage per enemy, so you couldn't just farm damage.''

Irrespective of the fact that you could farm more damage if you allow them to heal, i assumed you meant that 200 damage would be the equivalent in RP for one kill/assist as you're advocating damage instead of kills for RP.

If that's not the case then how would you implement it?

I don't know if you play or even watch competitive matches but initially farming damage early game just to charge your evo is a perfectly normal and valid tactic and it's also viable late game too depending on ring location and rotations which has already had complaints from pro players as it slows the pace down.

A sniping meta in general is usually frowned upon in Apex for various reasons and your suggestion will only encourage it and make it much worse.

I do agree that ranked is a grind that should have the split removed and also preds shouldn't be limited to those that can play very often to maintain the limited spaces at the top as it should be based on skill, not time played.

Your suggestion and your last reply about the charge rifle says to me you're a D3 stuck player that doesn't understand or appreciate the team work involved at that level in which case you honestly don't deserve to climb higher until you find a decent team and learn to coordinate with them.

Edit: Changed shouldn't to should in ''I do agree that ranked is a grind that should have the split removed''. 

@apostolateofDOOM Okay so you aren't getting it. No, you couldn't get more RP from the same enemy if they heal. Maximum per enemy means maximum per enemy per game. What I'm saying is you get like 1 RP (this number could vary by rank but probably wouldn't need to) for every 10 damage you do to an enemy, up to a maximum of roughly 200 damage per enemy per game. (a full level 3 shield and full health worth of damage). This is so that if you do 190 damage to an enemy and your teammate does 10, you GET more than him because you DID more than him.

I'm not advocating RP for damage INSTEAD of kills/assists, I'm advocating RP for damage AND kills/assists. Respawn may or may not have to raise the RP requirements for every rank a little bit, and I think it would also help to make it possible to get demoted from, say, diamond to plat or from plat to gold, etc. Then the better players are actually where they're supposed to be regardless of how poorly their teammates play, and sh*tty octanes that run and hide their way to the final circles for placement bonuses to get to diamond when their combat skill level is gold will get sent back to gold, because they aren't doing enough damage to maintain RP requirements.

With this system in place, snipers would NOT become the meta. They are already super loud, and if they leave it that way, no one's gonna ring those 3rd party dinner bells.

I would also be fine with the removal of Evo shields because that's the real issue when it comes to snipers camping at long range (even though it's easy to push towards or away from quickly if you're using Octane, Pathfinder, Wraith, Loba, Horizon, Don't assume that I'm stuck in any rank. That's a sh*tty and wildly assumptive thing to say. I'm just simply trying to make ranked more accurate, as well as easier to climb for players who are actually competent, for the good of everyone who slings out hella damage but gets bad teammates all the god damn time, and gets fu*ked because they can't take care of their guys, and then the good player who pulled his own weight has to hopelessly attempt and fail to 1v2/1v3, all for no reward on the damage he did for his knockdown and the damage he did to the guys his teammates failed to kill. BS.

     You shouldn't have to have/use a mic. The ping system is designed for randoms without headsets to effectively communicate, and yet it's astounding how many idiots just straight up ignore pings and requests when you fill, even in plat-diamond. You also shouldn't be expected to have the time to play tons of apex at the beginning of the season to scrounge for other good players with full time jobs in lower ranks before they rank up and no longer get matched up with you automatically, and nobody wants to play with someone in a lower rank than them.

@kellanammann How would you tie in RP for damage with kills when you were saying earlier that your issue was teammates that couldn't finish the last guy? You've excluded knocks so how would that work? Even if you accounted knocks and your team got RP but they revived them mid fight or later do you not get anything in the next engagement or your teammate potentially getting more second time round? That wouldn't make sense as you would be potentially fighting squads later on and not be getting anything from it.

Having a multiplier from your damage if you get the kill still doesn't address some of the things you said earlier plus there would be lots of other things to consider if they did that. Doing it like that would promote snipers and long range engagements with mobility legends as it's far less risky than QCQ.

You saying otherwise doesn't make it true.

Just as you keep saying tier demotion would improve things when i have already told you several times that would be exploited.

You're also missing things out like team composition where some defensive legends might not get as much damage as offensive ones but still provide a crucial role for their team. They must climb slower now?

The ping system is ok for pubs but not to be used exclusively in a competitive format as it's way to limited. Btw, I couldn't care less if you're bronze or pred and me saying you're likely stuck in a lower rank is not meant to insult you, if i assume you're in plat or diamond it's because you keep saying things that would favour a solo player that can't progress as those that do have no issues.

Those last things you mentioned don't even come into it in higher ranks as any player that has a chance of climbing through diamond can get through plat solo easily/quickly and from then on can lobby up with master/preds. A competent player isn't just one with game sense and mechanically skilled but one who works well with a team which is something given by your comments is the problem that needs work, not the RP system.  

     Oh my god talking to you is like talking to a wall. I can barely even understand what you're asking. It's that unfathomable to me that after all that I've written you still can't figure it out. How do you not understand this?

First of all, forget the f***ing knockdowns entirely. Secondly, my issue is NOT that my teammates don't finish the last guy, my 2 issues are that:

1. My teammates either don't kill anybody, barely do damage and get knocked, yet get the same amount of RP for the assist when I have to pull their weight for them and do way more damage to the guy that they only did 25 damage to while I'm at low health or shield because the guy I knocked was almost good enough to kill me.

2. I do almost all of the damage for a knockdown and they put 2 bullets into the guy to knock him and also get the same amount of RP.

     It's really, REALLY simple and you're overcomplicating it for a reason that's beyond me.

     No, revived enemies will not continue to reward RP for damaging them. If you do 225 damage to an enemy (max health and red Evo), that damage is rewarded with RP. You can no longer get RP by damaging that enemy if they get revived, or if they heal, but your teammates can if they haven't done 225 damage to them yet. You still get RP for eliminating them, or for an assist if your teammate does. You get it ?

     You said "you would potentially be fighting squads later but not be getting anything from it." YOU ALREADY GOT ALL OF THE RP FROM IT. Kill him if you want more. You don't win games by damaging people, but the amount of damage you do needs to be rewarded to seperate the guy who cracks a whole team's shields and the guy who landed 1 bullet on each of them. Like I said, there would have to be a max RP for each enemy that you damage so that you can't just crack a guys shield with a sentinel over and over again and go from bronze to pred in a single game.

     It's not a multiplier for damage, it's just RP that correlates directly to damage, up to a maximum per enemy. No multiplication is involved. You can't be expected to thirst a kill at any range further than 10m if they have a level 2 knockdown shield or better, or kill a whole team by yourself when both of your teammates are down and the other 2 enemies only have to kill you.

     Don't tell me there would be lots of other things to consider, tell me what the things to consider are, I'll consider them, and then prove that this is the better decision. It's almost like you're purposefully sounding vague because you know I've slapped away everything else you've tried to throw at this thread with ease.

     You say tier demotion would be exploited. So if some smurf gets demoted from Diamond on purpose and does 5k damage in a Silver lobby, what's a way that they could get quickly shot back up into Diamond? GEE, I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE IF THE 5K DAMAGE THAT THEY DID GOT THEM ALOT OF RP? Damage for RP would fix the smurfing problem too lol.

     A defensive legend is never at a disadvantage in terms of damage capability. How you play with legends is up to you, and abilities are merely the flesh of this game, gunfights are the bone structure. Caustic is defensive, but his ult is a throwable gas grenade. He's arguably one of the highest damage dealers in the game. Gibby is slightly behind him, but his gun shield is insane in a gunfight, and he also makes it rain explosions, and both of them have the fortified perk which helps alot in gunfights. Even a Wattson can do tons of damage if they're good with the guns that they're using, they strategically play the circles, and they force/bait other teams into positional disadvantages with their fence. Alot of people also seem to forget that her ult is always 1 accelerant away and blocks all incoming ordnance on top of recharging your shields. Sure all 3 are significantly more situational, but they excel much greater in defense than all of the others. That's what they're made to do, which, given your comments, sounds like knowing how to play defensive legends and do damage with them is the problem that needs work lmao.

     And on your last point, talking to someone doesn't guarantee that they won't play like s**t, ignore your suggestions, maintain their utter lack of situational awareness, dive head first into the crossfire of 6 teams by themselves just because they hear gunfire, still be a worthless teammate who puts up very little damage, dies, rips off his headset and goes afk while you waste your time redeploying him because you have to on the off chance that he comes back, since not being at a 2v3 disadvantage is your only realistic chance to win, or he doesn't go afk and he just does it again after you redeploy him, supposing you even feel like trying to grab his worthless banner, which most of the time you don't feel like risking your potential placement bonus to do. When one of your teammates pushes alone, even if the other agrees that it's a stupid deathwish, you both pretty much have to push with him, because even though you know it's suicide, if they die, you're subjected to 2v3s for the remainder of the game and you're screwed anyway.

     Feel free to admit I won whenever you realize you're repeating yourself or that you're bringing woodchips to a log fight.

@kellanammann I'm repeating it cause you're ignoring important points..

You keep ignoring sniper farming saying you wouldn't get more of them but the introduction of evo has already proved you wrong.

If your teammates kills a person for 1 or 200 damage then they completed the objective which is to reduce the players in the match. Doesn't matter if they win by an inch or a mile, if they down and finish the person removing them from the fight then they deserve RP.

The only possible and reasonable way i can think of they could implement damage into the RP system would be to have a multiplier attached to kills so if you deal 500 damage but your team only do 100 then you would get a lot more for the squad wipe. I say it's complicated because of how they would work that with healing, 3rd parties and coding it but you're clearly dismissive of that idea.

Tier demotion - I could drop multiple tiers, push for badges if that's what i wanted and repeat the process likely multiple times per day. It would completely destroy all tiers in ranked with low full of people who don't belong there chasing badges and higher tiers just full of campers.

Defensive legends aren't at a disadvantage in the damage output but generally play more passively giving their teammates a safe space to fall back to and CQC weapons usually do less damage than sniping which, again, is why i think it's a bad idea.

You're right it's like talking to a wall and coming full circle to what @Balladalidila said, your issue is unskilled randoms by what you keep saying because you don't play with a team of roughly equally skilled players which isn't that hard to do as there's multiple avenues you can get people to play with.

You haven't won anything nor is this competition. You made a suggestion and people are giving their view why it's a bad idea. You're so fixated on being right on what you want that you're ignoring reason beyond belief.

Then make it a limit to where you can only get a set amount of RP from hitting/downing the same person.  Diminished returns, easy fix.  Think outside of the box don't just neg an idea because you can't think of ways to improve on it.  What are your ideas?

@E9ine_ACThose are top guys and don't have the same issues that some of us have as far as time goes. I'm not looking to be a pred here top 500 is way outside my skill range, masters probably is too but I would like a chance to compete for it. I feel I am not being rewarded enough for consistently being the best player on my team. Damage is an indicator of someone who is putting in work and not hiding like a lot of teammates I get. I trying to play with my team as much as possible but it feels like they can barely shoot a gun sometimes. I just want a small reward for being the best on my team
Kills and damage don't always tell the story but they are strong indicators. I know what you mean I have had games like that too in fact I had a game where I ran the wingman and Mozambique for fun got 2k damage and 1 kill my other teammates both had just under 1k but one had 7 kills the other had 3 it was funny I laughed about it with the friend I played with but in ranked I feel I should be rewarded more for consistently being better than my teammates, I know I already am because I'm moving up but I would like to move up faster.

@afishthatvapes Can you @ the person you're talking to just so they're aware.

Doesn't matter if it's diminishing returns as that wouldn't address the problem.

You just get the initial main RP from one person then go onto the next or move on to another team. As i've already said, ranged engagements are less risky than CQC so ANYTHING that's RP just for damage that isn't connected to kills will be farmed by snipers. 

I have a whole list of things they could do to improve ranked but none of them are RP for damage. Some of them just off the top of my head...

1. Remove rank split so it's not as much of a rushed grind. That way everyone has a chance regardless of personal circumstances and time available to play.

2. Put predator back in a higher RP cost to other tiers and not determined by time played being top 750 overall RP for each platform per split. You could do this by removing masters (probably better as there aren't enough players at that level) or make it a higher RP cost than masters which is fine if they implement 5 too. Those that have families and work full time but are skilled can still obtain it unlike now where it favours streamers and unemployed just for engagement.

3. End of season everyone only drops one tier. Gives each person more chance to improve and climb the following season and removes preds being put back to bronze lobbies if they don't play a season.

4. Give a server selector for ranked so we don't have random connections.

5. Increase the kill cap to 10 or just remove it so people can climb to their respective ranks faster.

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@Balladalidila wrote:

@kellanammann 

That suggestion would literally make the incentives 1000 times stronger for people in ranked to just grab a Charge rifle or another sniper and just trade dmg on long (safe) range and never push and actually go for the squad wipe.  Knocking an enemy gives you a significant advantage which you and your team may or may not be able capitalize on. A knock is NOTHING if you dont do something with it and its exactly the same for just dealing dmg. It means, and SHOULD mean nothing unless you can convert the dmg dealt to a kill.

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True that sir, that might give some room to people who play other weapons than f-in shotguns...