Here is the problem; Respawn said they incorporate a new algorithm seasons ago that supposedly got everyone close to 1 kd ratio.Problem is at the time of that new system I was at about 0.6 kd but season 20 I am at 0.28. I played Apex since season 0 day 0 and played for thousands and thousands of hours how is it possible that I get crushed instead of being uplifted like you said you would?Other problem is since day 0 I always had better games playing with randoms rather than my friends even tough it is a teamplay game that supposed to reward playing as a team in a smart way and not doing anything stupid we play smart but get 90% of bad games with my friends but when I am solo I get bad games where randoms are not worth playing with but every now and then get a good game with reasonable teammates way more often than with my friends.I play mostly rank and this weekend played like 16 hours with different friends what happened is that I lost over 700 points no matter how we played we lost every fight and got jumped on and killed in 2 seconds most of the time and we even played the ring going to ring 4 and 5 most of the time but we still got destroyed no matter how we played, how we rotated, how we had different strategy on our legends and the ability to craft and that is with completely different friends that this happened most my games were in the negative (platinum and gold).And then I was really desperate but still wanted to see how it would go with my randoms. What happened is that immediatly with the 1st game I started being able to kill opponents, doing kills, wining as a team and started making lots of points I made like 300 points in 4 games while I couldnt even make 20 points in a single game with my friends!!!!!Also that explains why I could only grind to Platinum with randoms... with friends it was just not working most of the time and felt like a waste of time.This is really really really wrong I don't even want to play with friends anymore what's the problem here?P.S. that is something I experienced since day 0 for 5 years with most friends except 1 friend with which things go well and I played with dozens and dozens of friends.

Whatever matchmaking is being used, its clearly the same thing for all the modes. I'm trying to play the lockdown LTM, and it feels like I'm playing ranked. I'm getting two randoms who are either new to the game, or they're bots, and going against top ranked players, smurfs, and/or cheaters. The majority of my matches, both of my teammates do not care at all about the objective, or they're AFK. This isn't fun, and its very exhausting.

@Palette24carats They said they "fixed" matchmaking, but they really didn't. Then again, they also said they made changes that "made it better", but they also didn't, and instead added a "hidden MMR", which honestly felt like it was their way of allowing preds in any match, along with allowing players to play with anyone of any rank. Now the hidden MMR is "gone", (but it doesn't feel like it), and you can still play with any rank.Think about it, a lot of pro players had complained about matches being too hard, much like the general playerbase. Pro players are often streamers, bringing in viewers and such to the game. No one wants to see a "pro" get curb stomped 24/7, so it would make sense to have them in lower lobbies. They'll get their videos out, those get views, the game stays relevant, but honestly it shouldn't be like that. It should be fair to ALL players.If someone can't climb out of gold, plat, diamond, etc. that's suppose to be due to a skill issue, not due to awful teammates and a bad matchmaking algorithm.I'm a plat player, which is the highest ranked I've achieved in solo Q. (Barely anyone sticks around long enough to form an actual team these days). I know I've hit Masters in S17 but the rank was so broken, that just by playing the game, (and a lot of players just ratted, which I refused to do), either way, it doesn't count.AKA, I know that I'm as good as an average plat player, if not, a mid-high ranking gold player, yet instead of being stopped due to reaching my "skill ceiling", I'm being stopped by getting teammates who are rookie-gold rankings, running around like actual bots, (or they're just a duo team ruining the match for the 3rd player). Smurfs and cheaters are also a huge issue, and makes things worse. I really have no clue why Respawn decided to lower the rank level requirement from level 50 to level 20. I would of raised it to level 100, if not 150, or 200, then again the anti-cheat is so bad, that there are a bunch of level 500+ with full on cheats.In short: At the start of S20, the matchmaking seemed to have been better, and I had enjoyed it. Yet, once I hit silver, I was instantly thrown into matches with players who were diamond and higher. Players who are pros, some who are smurfing, some who are cheating, etc., all while my randoms act like they never played the game, or are selfish and do not work as a team.@Palette24carats you also have this right, the part about solo Q'ing being better than with friends. Whenever I played with friends, especially those who I know never played before, or they're below level 500, they all had complained that "my lobbies were a lot tougher". Sure, the matchmaking is matching off of the highest rank/level'ed player, which was me, but it shouldn't be tossing us into the TTV mega sweat pred lobbies.Using ranks to explain this further, (with "rank" correlating to skill):My lobbies (Solo Q):Average Team: Bronze (Gold), SilverAverage Enemy Team: Gold, Gold, PlatTheir lobbies (Solo Q):Average Team: Silver, (Silver), SilverAverage Enemy Team: Silver, Silver, GoldTheir lobbies (Duos):Average Team: (Silver), (Silver), RookieAverage Enemy Team: Silver, Gold, GoldOur lobbies (Trios):Average Team: (Silver), (Silver), (Gold)Average Enemy Team: Plat, Plat, Diamond, (with masters or pred badges)In short: You get punished by working as a team and by being in a pre-made squad, than if you were to play solo, even in rank. No wonder why most of my randoms give little to no care about teammates.I've even had noticed that when I was solo Q'ing, the game seem to be "rigging" matches by giving you teammates that can't aim and/or have no game awareness most of the time, and then after a long losing streak, I would suddenly get good teammates, where everyone I come across are the ones who can't aim, and/or aren't aware. After placing top 5 or winning, I'm thrown right back into tough lobbies.This is why I keep thinking the game uses Engagement Optimized Matchmaking, (EOMM), because it will get you into quick games that are far out of your skill range, and when it thinks you're going to quit, you get a good game. From what I can tell, its designed to keep players playing with no concern for the player's mental health or any kind of fairness.I don't know about most players, but I play Apex for fun, and I tend to play rank because teammates can't just disconnect on knock without consequences. I also play rank to see how high I can climb, and to challenge myself. Its already difficult to do so when there's a lot of cheaters and smurfs, it certainly doesn't get any easier when the game decides to give me two rookie level teammates in terms of skill, and pit us against a full diamond, master, and/or pred skill level squad.

@ttvrodriguestmr Let's also not forget another problem for matchmaking.First, let's pretend matchmaking is perfect, as in, its always fair, (it won't ever be 100% fair due to the skill gaps, but let's pretend for now).The problem: Cheaters, smurfs, and bots.Cheaters come back after bans, smurfs... well smurf, while the bots are just cheaters leveling up accounts to use them in rank or whatever else that they need a bot for.Matchmaking has to be changed to where it tries harder to keep high skilled players out of lower skill player's matches. There's no reason to put preds in bronze lobbies, even in pubs. For this to work, it would also require a better anti-cheat, (good luck, as cheaters would keep bypassing any anti-cheat), a detection for smurfs, (the rookie to pred grinds really shouldn't be allowed as well), and kicking out any player that acts like a bot, (although AI is getting more and more advanced, that its possible to fight an AI, and think its a player, but if you get a bot random that's useful, its more or less a win... isn't it?)

@Palette24carats I stopped playing two weeks ago for this reason. I played pubs but had the same experience - several hours of absolutely horrible matches getting no more than a kill or 2 and getting absolutely obliterated every time. Matchmaking didn't do anything despite hours of horrible results. It got so bad I just couldn't take it anymore.

@Midnight9746 I understand that some of this is normal... like you are playing with randoms most of which are solo because they play so bad no one wants to play with them but then this is the matchmaking job to let you have a good game once in a few games and I am ok with it.Problem is that some days it just doesnt happen you constantly get bad games that is a problem since the matchmaking is supposed to give you that good game once in a while and it doesnt!!I always felt like rank smurfs are not correctly evaluated with MMR and so they keep helping their friend get quicket to a higher rank so they play against me and those are like diamond players on their main account they come and win my game. I watch and can see this is a higher level player that's on a Gold 2 account helping his platinum 4 friend.And then you have respawn who is not against the use of smurfs in rank which is totally against the whole idea of ranking!!!Last week Connor Ford who works as a ban hammer for cheaters was congratulating Itztimmy for his wonderful rampage of lower rank lobbies on his bronze to master challengef.Itztimmy was banned lived by Valorant for doing that exact thing in valorant ranked.The fact that the higher ups accept this kind of cheating is really disgusting and it probably explain a lot of our struggles.

Matchmaking something's wrong | EA Forums

21 Replies

HappyHourSumwur
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@Palette24carats Two things. First, quitting to lobby after you drop and hit the ground will get you a death against your KDR now. Secondly, matchmaking is worse, too. Game is totally unplayable for solo queue players.
Palette24carats
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@HappyHourSumwurToday I had the worst experience ever in rank lost 700 points in my session playing solo q in like 20 games and I didnt do a single kill in the whole night this is the worst it has ever been for me even when I was relegated to Gold 1 I continued to do 0 kill with bad teammates and against good players that were often Platinum most of the time my whole team would do 0 kill and we would be against teams that were having a blast... all the teams had 6-10 kills while we consistently had 0 kill no matter who I played with. Teams kept appearing behind us at any moment without warning even tough we were not making any noise not shooting and had a blue shield at start of the game to have a chance.

I am truly disgusted I played so many thousands of hours and Respawn said they fix matchnmaking so more players got their kdr closer to 1 in reality mine is going down to the floor it is now under 0.3 this never happened before.

I'm gonna have to stop playing again this is totally unfair worst of all I just spent hundreds of dollars a few week ago for a heirloom and this is how pay to lose works it seem.
HappyHourSumwur
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@Palette24carats I stopped playing two weeks ago for this reason. I played pubs but had the same experience - several hours of absolutely horrible matches getting no more than a kill or 2 and getting absolutely obliterated every time. Matchmaking didn't do anything despite hours of horrible results. It got so bad I just couldn't take it anymore.
Midnight9746
Hero+
2 years ago
@Palette24carats They said they "fixed" matchmaking, but they really didn't. Then again, they also said they made changes that "made it better", but they also didn't, and instead added a "hidden MMR", which honestly felt like it was their way of allowing preds in any match, along with allowing players to play with anyone of any rank. Now the hidden MMR is "gone", (but it doesn't feel like it), and you can still play with any rank.

Think about it, a lot of pro players had complained about matches being too hard, much like the general playerbase. Pro players are often streamers, bringing in viewers and such to the game. No one wants to see a "pro" get curb stomped 24/7, so it would make sense to have them in lower lobbies. They'll get their videos out, those get views, the game stays relevant, but honestly it shouldn't be like that. It should be fair to ALL players.

If someone can't climb out of gold, plat, diamond, etc. that's suppose to be due to a skill issue, not due to awful teammates and a bad matchmaking algorithm.

I'm a plat player, which is the highest ranked I've achieved in solo Q. (Barely anyone sticks around long enough to form an actual team these days). I know I've hit Masters in S17 but the rank was so broken, that just by playing the game, (and a lot of players just ratted, which I refused to do), either way, it doesn't count.

AKA, I know that I'm as good as an average plat player, if not, a mid-high ranking gold player, yet instead of being stopped due to reaching my "skill ceiling", I'm being stopped by getting teammates who are rookie-gold rankings, running around like actual bots, (or they're just a duo team ruining the match for the 3rd player). Smurfs and cheaters are also a huge issue, and makes things worse. I really have no clue why Respawn decided to lower the rank level requirement from level 50 to level 20. I would of raised it to level 100, if not 150, or 200, then again the anti-cheat is so bad, that there are a bunch of level 500+ with full on cheats.

In short: At the start of S20, the matchmaking seemed to have been better, and I had enjoyed it. Yet, once I hit silver, I was instantly thrown into matches with players who were diamond and higher. Players who are pros, some who are smurfing, some who are cheating, etc., all while my randoms act like they never played the game, or are selfish and do not work as a team.

@Palette24carats you also have this right, the part about solo Q'ing being better than with friends. Whenever I played with friends, especially those who I know never played before, or they're below level 500, they all had complained that "my lobbies were a lot tougher". Sure, the matchmaking is matching off of the highest rank/level'ed player, which was me, but it shouldn't be tossing us into the TTV mega sweat pred lobbies.

Using ranks to explain this further, (with "rank" correlating to skill):

My lobbies (Solo Q):
Average Team: Bronze (Gold), Silver
Average Enemy Team: Gold, Gold, Plat

Their lobbies (Solo Q):
Average Team: Silver, (Silver), Silver
Average Enemy Team: Silver, Silver, Gold

Their lobbies (Duos):
Average Team: (Silver), (Silver), Rookie
Average Enemy Team: Silver, Gold, Gold

Our lobbies (Trios):
Average Team: (Silver), (Silver), (Gold)
Average Enemy Team: Plat, Plat, Diamond, (with masters or pred badges)

In short: You get punished by working as a team and by being in a pre-made squad, than if you were to play solo, even in rank. No wonder why most of my randoms give little to no care about teammates.

I've even had noticed that when I was solo Q'ing, the game seem to be "rigging" matches by giving you teammates that can't aim and/or have no game awareness most of the time, and then after a long losing streak, I would suddenly get good teammates, where everyone I come across are the ones who can't aim, and/or aren't aware. After placing top 5 or winning, I'm thrown right back into tough lobbies.

This is why I keep thinking the game uses Engagement Optimized Matchmaking, (EOMM), because it will get you into quick games that are far out of your skill range, and when it thinks you're going to quit, you get a good game. From what I can tell, its designed to keep players playing with no concern for the player's mental health or any kind of fairness.

I don't know about most players, but I play Apex for fun, and I tend to play rank because teammates can't just disconnect on knock without consequences. I also play rank to see how high I can climb, and to challenge myself. Its already difficult to do so when there's a lot of cheaters and smurfs, it certainly doesn't get any easier when the game decides to give me two rookie level teammates in terms of skill, and pit us against a full diamond, master, and/or pred skill level squad.
Palette24carats
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@Midnight9746 I understand that some of this is normal... like you are playing with randoms most of which are solo because they play so bad no one wants to play with them but then this is the matchmaking job to let you have a good game once in a few games and I am ok with it.

Problem is that some days it just doesnt happen you constantly get bad games that is a problem since the matchmaking is supposed to give you that good game once in a while and it doesnt!!

I always felt like rank smurfs are not correctly evaluated with MMR and so they keep helping their friend get quicket to a higher rank so they play against me and those are like diamond players on their main account they come and win my game. I watch and can see this is a higher level player that's on a Gold 2 account helping his platinum 4 friend.

And then you have respawn who is not against the use of smurfs in rank which is totally against the whole idea of ranking!!!
Last week Connor Ford who works as a ban hammer for cheaters was congratulating Itztimmy for his wonderful rampage of lower rank lobbies on his bronze to master challengef.
Itztimmy was banned lived by Valorant for doing that exact thing in valorant ranked.
The fact that the higher ups accept this kind of cheating is really disgusting and it probably explain a lot of our struggles.
TTVRODRIGUESTMR
Seasoned Newcomer
2 years ago
good. I've been playing for about a month now, I've been playing Gold 2 but I'm not able to get past it in any way. And how is it possible for my team to always be someone who seems to have never played the game? I have no idea. Frankly, I'm tired of killing 2 and dying for the 3 that my team doesn't even have the vest, I don't know how to play like this. And it's a shame I really like the game but I'm going to abandon it this way.. I understand you, there are few players playing the game so they can't do better but so on losing many more.. no one has fun. don't forget that it's not the pro players who make the game, there are 2 of us. who, according to the menus, have 2 decent players in a ranked match and I'm not a bad guy. but as we all know, they They won't read any of this and they want to sell skins...look, I see a sad end to the game this year, there will be some good games coming out...they will lose the rest of the players and well done.......you can block my account a will..this is not mine..I'm just here to give my openion..
Midnight9746
Hero+
2 years ago
@ttvrodriguestmr Let's also not forget another problem for matchmaking.

First, let's pretend matchmaking is perfect, as in, its always fair, (it won't ever be 100% fair due to the skill gaps, but let's pretend for now).

The problem: Cheaters, smurfs, and bots.

Cheaters come back after bans, smurfs... well smurf, while the bots are just cheaters leveling up accounts to use them in rank or whatever else that they need a bot for.

Matchmaking has to be changed to where it tries harder to keep high skilled players out of lower skill player's matches. There's no reason to put preds in bronze lobbies, even in pubs. For this to work, it would also require a better anti-cheat, (good luck, as cheaters would keep bypassing any anti-cheat), a detection for smurfs, (the rookie to pred grinds really shouldn't be allowed as well), and kicking out any player that acts like a bot, (although AI is getting more and more advanced, that its possible to fight an AI, and think its a player, but if you get a bot random that's useful, its more or less a win... isn't it?)
Midnight9746
Hero+
2 years ago
Whatever matchmaking is being used, its clearly the same thing for all the modes. I'm trying to play the lockdown LTM, and it feels like I'm playing ranked. I'm getting two randoms who are either new to the game, or they're bots, and going against top ranked players, smurfs, and/or cheaters. The majority of my matches, both of my teammates do not care at all about the objective, or they're AFK. This isn't fun, and its very exhausting.
WTF_Huitzo
2 years ago
@Palette24carats if only you knew , the reason we smurf is because it's impossible to play the game past diamond cuz the game is full of cheaters.
that's why hidden mmr was terrible in s17-S19 , you would play cheater lobbies from rookie.

if the anti cheat was working no pro would smurf.
Palette24carats
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@WTF_Huitzo I dont think so, I watch them play they have like 30k RP and they win like 60% of their games other games top 4, 3,2.
From diamond 3 you play against preds and there is some cheaters from time to time but why not play pubs instead if its your reap rank and not playable?