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Brandoblu69's avatar
9 months ago

SBMM  (skill-based matchmaking) can accelerate the decline of online video games

As a game hemorrhages players, SBMM breaks down, creating a negative feedback loop of worsening match quality, causing more players to leave the game - a death spiral that leads to the game's demise.

SBMM should be removed from ranked and normal game modes. Random matchmaking is safer and will promote a slower rate of player improvement over time. This could help keep the average player skill level lower, potentially increasing the game's lifespan.

As for SBMM, there should only be two main rankings: the bottom 33% and the top 15%, with the rest of the population in the middle. If game developers want to use SBMM, it should not be a general metric. Instead, it should be based on specific leaderboard statistics and metrics, such as win rate, damage dealt/taken, time spent looting, fights abandoned/instigated, shots fired, team placement, matches played with friends, etc. This would allow for grouping players with similar playstyles, rather than an arbitrary hidden rank. Balancing teams by having one "rat" (passive player), one "fragger" (aggressive player), and one late-game player is likely to result in a poor experience, as players will be forced into roles they don't enjoy.

SBMM should focus on a player's most recent performance (e.g., the past 17 days) and track whether they are in a state of decline, improvement, or balance. I have personal experience with the issues surrounding SBMM in Apex Legends. During the early seasons, I was able to consistently achieve high-kill games, but the SBMM system failed to account for this and effectively placed me in a "get * on" matchmaking pool for several seasons.

This led to a frustratingly poor matchmaking experience that caused me to quit the game entirely for a significant period. The SBMM system in Apex Legends needs to be reworked to better accommodate skilled players without punishing them so harshly. The current system is a significant problem that has contributed to my decision not to spend money on the game.

I believe SBMM should be removed for the overall health of the game, not just to allow skilled players to dominate new players. Additionally, the game's issues extend beyond SBMM, with rampant cheating on both PC and console platforms. Respawn has failed to adequately address the cheating problem, which has further contributed to the game's decline.

If Respawn were to dedicate significant resources to rewriting the game's code in a safer way, it could potentially fix these issues and bring players and revenue back to the game.

This is an AI generated summary here's what I actually said.

SBMM  (skill-based matchmaking) can accelerate the decline of online video games. As a game hemorrhages players, SBMM breaks down, it creates a negative feedback loop of worsening match quality, causing players to leave the game, this is a death spiral that leads to the game's death.

Sbmm should be removed from ranked and normal game modes. Random is safer and will promote a slower rate of player improvement over time, IE players will get better at apex legends slow if their teammates are holding them back helping keep the average players skill level arbitrarily lower which could have the benefit of increasing the lifespan of the game. As far as SBMM is concerned they should only be 2 rankings bottom 33% and top 15% and the rest of the population.

If game devs want sbmm it should not to be used as a general metric it should be based off leaderboards for specific statistics and metrics to drive at to be used for matchmaking try to focus on small subsets of groups or one specific metic to mix things every now and again when it comes to sbmm. Encourage specific play styles on specific Maps use things like win rate, damage dealt, damage taken, time spent looting, fights abandoned, fights instigated , shots fired, team placement, matches played with friends, currently playing with friends.

These leaderboard statistics for players should be considered when matching players together on teams and against other players the focus more on grouping players with similar play styles and not some hidden rank. The same should be true of fraggers who travel long distances and play for kills. Also players who play for high damage games or placements/playing late game, likes to run sniper rifles, number of abilities fired, like to ads in close gun fights, hip fires accuracy, accuracy, has above average accuracy with a weapon from a distance that most players will never hit a single shot, Like to use shotguns.

These are all different play styles that can contribute to someone's rank, sbmm is currently a combination some or none of these metrics into an inaccurate arbitrary number to match players which is bad.

It  should prioritize how players play the game to improve the likelihood that players will coordinate and use teamwork to win which will improve their skill at the game where otherwise would have been highly likely that they would have lost using a summation of all statistical metrics instead of focusing on a single on or a few.

If you try to balance the teams by having one rat one Fragger and one late game player you're going to have a bad experience and the players sbmm rankings will be fundamentally flawed because because their teammates will force them and put them in situations they wouldn't otherwise don't like to be in and and so it wouldn't be an accurate representation of player balancing.

Sbmm should not look at the totality of a players performance only their most recent performance like the past 17 days and should keep track of whether or not that player was in a state of decline, Improvement, or is at a balanced level.    I have personal experience with the issues surrounding SBMM (skill-based matchmaking) in Apex Legends. I quit playing the game during Season 2 when the SBMM system became overly punishing. In the first few months of the game's release, I was able to consistently drop 20-kill games, often against less experienced players. However, the SBMM system failed to account for this and effectively placed me in a "get * on" matchmaking pool for Seasons 2 through 5.

The SBMM changes linearly and does not make large enough adjustments to properly account for skill disparities. This led to an objectively poor matchmaking experience that caused me to quit Apex entirely from Season 3 through the end of Season 5. It was such a frustrating experience that I still vividly remember it, even though it was several years ago. Based on this personal experience, I can confidently say that SBMM remains a significant problem in Apex Legends. The system needs to be reworked to better accommodate skilled players without punishing them so harshly. I know from experience.

This bad experience is the sole reason I don't spend money on this game because I found out early the path this game was going down but whatever I talk about sbm on Reddit they just Gaslight me for wanting the s*** on new players and not wanting player retention when it actually does the opposite it's funny because now that the game's dying they want to acknowledge it. I truly believe sbmm needs to go the way of the dodo and be removed for the health of the game.

Not just so I can poop on new players with no experience. I want a better magic experience not tilt and rage quitting uninstalled the game simulator. I entirely stop playing Apex because of the cheaters, the sbmm, the game not being safe to play. Not just cheaters on PC because respawn totally refuses to acknowledge the cheaters on the consoles and actively go out of their way to censor discussion about the problem. The various ways people are cheating using recoil Scripts using them apex's to use mouse and keyboard on consoles that don't natively support them leading to unfair advantage because they end up you having a keyboard and mouse with aim assist, and abusing things like wooden keyboards with stripes spam scripts that allow them the instantaneously change direction instead of having it be delayed like everyone else.

Those little those little antique recoil strike packs you can strap to the back of your controller to remove recoil. Like if players are going to go through all this effort to cheat you might as well just remove recoil from the game. Like you did with flinching.

2 billion in revenue for EA you think they go all hands on deck and contribute every last employee they have at their company to rewrite this game's code in a safe way make literally if they just went all hands on deck they can fix the game if they do this I guarantee you the players and money will come back.

8 Replies

  • @Brandoblu69 

    I might misunderstand you now since you first said SBMM should be removed from both Ranked and causal and then kept on to explain how SBMM should work hehe. But I think I agree. SBMM should almost be removed entirely from normal modes. It should be totally random but perhaps a "soft" matchmaking based on squad formations, most importantly a system that tries to match premade trios vs each other.

    And ranked shouldnt have any SBMM other than players current rank. No BS like matching "good" silvers vs "good" silvers and "bad " silvers vs "bad" silvers etc. Such system is the ultimate proof that you have a failed ranked system since a given players current rank SHOULD correspond to a certain skill level. But we all know that this isnt the case in Apex; I have never played a competitive PVP where the rank and skill correlation is so weak for low-to-mid elos. What needs to be done is to have a HARSHER RP gain/loss system. Nothing good comes from allowing rats and people who cant fight to climb the ranks until they reach a rank where they literally will lose 9/10 1v1s vs any other player in the lobby and can only rely on hiding and running away.

    But for the record, I do think the SBMM in causal actually is rather non existence. It seems pretty random to me as a solo Q player.

  • @Brandoblu69

    It is true that population decline is a big factor in the failure of sbmm. But it's far from the only cause. And removing it entirely as a cure all? That's like telling a patient with high cholesterol to stop taking their Lipitor. It just makes no sense at all. If bad sbmm is bad then no sbmm must be better? Just what???

    "SBMM should be removed from ranked and normal game modes. Random matchmaking is safer and will promote a slower rate of player improvement over time. This could help keep the average player skill level lower, potentially increasing the game's lifespan."

    Sorry to be that guy, but there is not one single statement in that paragraph that I can agree with. If you are in a flood zone and up to your neck in water, you don't say, "Hey, turn off the pumps. They're old and mostly broken anyway." Because then you would drown. Well, maybe YOU wouldn't. If you're, say, a top 10-15% player. Anyone else is dead on arrival. If you're looking for a way to speed up the inevitable population hemorrhage then you've found it.

    And then you spend a curiously long amount of time explaining how sbmm, something you want to get rid of, should actually work. I know that you already know this, but in every single studio that builds shooters there are people who spend a good deal of their working day trying to figure out how to build a game with a high skill ceiling while at the same time ensuring that non-professional participants can have fun as well. To this day they have almost universally accepted the necessity for skill-based matchmaking. The fact that sbmm is virtually impossible to implement well, and completely impossible to maintain in the face of cheaters and smurfs, is beside the point. You can't put little league ball players in the same game with MLB professionals. And expect any of the players OR the spectators to think the results will be worthwhile. They won't be.

    I know you're frustrated, but throwing the baby out with the bathwater is not the answer.

    Interestingly though, every observation you made about the flaws behind skill assessment are 100% spot on.

  • I just created an account and played and the second match in there were people with 20 kill badges and ive never even played this game i only knew about it from a friend whom told me what the badge was

  • Sbmm in fps should never exist since anti-cheat never ever worked.

    It make ranked and top lobbies unplayable.

  • @Brandoblu69Totally wrong take. We don't want to play against Genburten, get a clue! We need Sbmm and we need more of it because right now there is almost none! We keep playing against players that are way better than us with 20 bomb badges, 4k badges, triple Master badges.... I can't win against any of those players... so don't let me play against them just like you would not let your kid playing midget baseball against a team of majors.

    If No Sbmm would be the simple solution to all Fps games... then all players would play the free to play game Xdefiant which doesnt use Sbmm.... but oddly it feels the same, as if in fact we don't get any Sbmm but just tiny variations in lobbies.

  • HappyHourSumwur's avatar
    HappyHourSumwur
    Seasoned Ace
    8 months ago

    SBMM can only work if nobody is cheating, there is a fairly normal curve distribution of skill, and you have a signficantly large player pool to draw from.  None of that is true in Apex anymore, if it ever was.

    Unfortunately, I just don't see a world where EA/Respawn are willing to do what's necessary to save Apex and keep it alive for the 10 years they claim to be shooting for.  It is too difficult and costs too much. RIP

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