Spitfire is not op, you're just toxic
Spitfire is fine. There are many other much more important things to fix in this game. The spitfire was popular and that's the only reason people hate it. Every season the streamers pick a new gun to...
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"Every season the streamers pick a new gun to claim is imbalanced and every season they are wrong. Form your own opinions."
I'm not even watching streamers, or any Apex Legends content in that regard. I prefer to play and experience the game myself rather than watching some overrated people playing the game I can very well play myself. Still it seems like that my opinion is usually similar or the same as what some of these streamers appear to say. Except the Caustic opinion on which I'm still gonna be open and say: His nerf was well deserved.
"This game is not that hard and some of you act like if you're not constantly stomping then it's unfair somehow."
I think it's less the problem that people want to stomp others. It's more so the problem that SBMM doesn't really seem to exist and people get paired with either high-tier professionals or new players. And as it's the per-usual, those people who just want to casually enjoy the game for some unknown reason get paired with the worst people on earth while the opponents are terminator-level predators who seemingly have secret skills unlocked that are not yet implemented into the human brain. That's not just a problem with Apex though. For some reason the enemy team in every game manages things that should usually not be possible.
"There are no other guns that the spitfire makes obsolete. The flatline would be the closest but even then, better movement, better non ADS spread, still 16 damage, reloads faster, better in close combat."
As a balance fanatic in almost every game and following various game development channels and blogs, I can very certainly tell you: Spitfire was broken. To quote something from @Gator762FMJ
"What drove all the Monster-swilling Twitch streamers nuts is that it's a newbie or less-skilled friendly with the extended magazine size and they couldn't have noobs breaking their stomp on pub streams. Sadly the devs seem to listen to them too much."
Yes, in a certain sense it's good to have a weapon that everyone regardless of their skill level can use. This balances out the skill gap in games. The said weapon should not exceed other weapons with a much higher skill ceiling. Yes, a weapon that requires twice the amount of skill should not deal twice the amount of damage. But the Spitfire dealt 171 DPS, paired with a very large magazine size, very decent handling, only very little required upgrades AND a decently fast reload speed in contrast to the advantages proposed above.
The problem in Apex Legends for new players is less so the weapons that are provided, but how difficult the game is. High mobility, weird hitboxes, hard-to-control weapons... When I first started out this game, I ran through my ammo reserves in a single fight because I didn't hit a single bullet. I'm still having the opinion that the aiming in Apex Legends is much different than other games.
"Quit complaining about stuff simply because it's popular to complain about them. You're losing because YOU are bad/out of position/overextending. Not because a gun can shoot."
Okay, good point. We should revert the Bocek nerf. People should just stop complaining. It's clearly not the bow that was overpowered, but the people having a bad positioning.
Point in case and to make a long story short: There is a reason why a lot of people complain about similar things. Most likely because the collective opinion is coming from somewhere valid.
Peri inadvertently mentioned why the Spitfire was considered almost universally a low or middle tier weapon: "HIGH MOBILITY."
It has a low DPS compared to many popular weapons like an R-99, R-301, etc - combined with a slow strafe speed.
You're at a significant disadvantage up close with a Spitfire against many other weapons, due to your movement penalty with it combined with the lower DPS. It's newbie and casual friendly though, because typically those players aren't using and or relying on their movement to get them through a fight combined with the large magazine to help with the number of shots missed. I'm familiar with how it was considered as I have gone back and forth with using it and watched many people's YouTube videos learning Apex when I was new. Most of those YouTubers said Spitfire was no good. Most people I played with said the Spitfire was no good, don't pick it up.
To be fair, there were a few that said it was an underrated weapon, but even they didn't use it all the time.
Then it gets a 1 point buff, the DPS is still much lower than an R-99, or an R-301, or a Flatline, or a Havoc etc. and everyone goes nuts.
Totally agree with you that SBMM seems to not work in many cases. Disagree on the Caustic nerf - most of the time sweaty players totally ignore Caustic's traps and gas before he got nerfed. Now it's a joke.
@Peri_Longbow_plzFair points but I’ll counter with this: a high skill player should know better than to stand in front of bullets. Many of the youtubers I watch know to take cover and when to pop out and shoot. They win a lot of matches. I don’t know who the streamers are but it seems like they just want their cake and eat it too. The community (any community) is naive and just follows trends. That doesn’t mean it’s coming from correct issues, it just means the issue itself is popular atm.
This is one of those topics where you and I will just have to agree to disagree, but I appreciate your perspective.in regards to your jab about the bocek, please reread my original statement. Bocek was a silent faster firing sentinel that made it impossible to tell how many people were shooting at you. It introduces new problems to a game that has had identifiable gun shot sounds with every other weapon. It’s shot travels faster than a sniper with less drop and did more damage than all but two of the snipers. The problems with the bocek vs spitfire are enough, IMO, to prove that the spitfire is not and never has been op. The contrast in issues should prove this, but nobody is willing to think critically or argue truthfully. Your jab at my spitfire solution is misplaced and full of salt.
In the hands of a skilled player the weapon with the highest DPS will always be dominant. If you gave a very good player who knows the recoil patterns of weapons a maximized HAVOC, he'll likely win a fight against you who has an R-301. But the majority of Apex Legends players are average at best. So the HAVOC sees little to no use anymore.
Balancing is not just about top-tier players. If you were to balance around that bracket alone, weapons like the Havoc or Devotion would need to be nerfed for the DPS alone. Balancing is about the lower brackets as well. And this is where the Spitfire found (and still finds) the most use. To me - admittedly - it's harder to hit with an R-301 on medium ranges than with a Spitfire. The slower fire rate makes the slightly bigger recoil almost redundant and makes more accurate and consistent shots over medium ranges. Is that bad? Not directly. But the developers have to consider the usage of other weapons as well. And within casual games I encountered way more Spitfire users than any other weapon. Well, R-99 also found a lot of use, and surprisingly Mozambique as well.
The Peek-and-shoot tactic is the safest to use survival-wise. It makes weapons like the Wingman excel. By minimizing the time the enemy can hit you, while also maximizing the damage you can deal within a specific period is a trade-off way more valuable than sheer DPS. A player with a Wingman would win against someone with a havoc if he had cover to use. In else case - given both are equally skilled - the havoc would win.
Back to the original point though, the Spitfire was very overused in the low and mid-tier bracket. Yes, to a skilled player the Spitfire is trash. To a skilled player even the EVA-8 or Mastiff are trash. But to the average player, these weapons are the most viable options for how easy it is to use them. And once a weapon provides both sufficient power AND easy usage, that's where a weapon falls out of balancing.
And yes, low- and mid-tier brackets are those brackets which are the most important to maintain.- @Peri_Longbow_plz Good arguments.
- @Death_by_Sloth99 Careful, your toxins are leaking again. Cause the air got quite toxic. Also, I'm a rampart main, thank you very much. I don't even have octane unlocked because I could care less about the mobility meta.
@Peri_Longbow_plzI'm curious what you would suggest be done to the spitfire to make it balanced. It is an LMG, so what can actually be done about it if time firing seems to be the skill gap closure?
Just thought of this, but perhaps all of this is highlighting a different issue. WHY are poorly skilled players being matched up with higher skill? This gap shouldn't be happening.(Anecdotal, but I recently won a fight against a pathfinder with a spitfire. He was fairly low skilled and sprayed like one would probably assume he did. I hid around a door until the shots stopped, popped out and shot him. It's not hard to beat a spitfire unless you're caught out in the open, but at that point it doesn't matter what weapon you're being shot with.)
@PraetorOfOlea Well, I have already proposed my own suggestion for a Caustic improvement in case you're interested: Caustic thread
And as for your question on how to fix the weapon efficiently without making it useless... Well, you don't. Not directly at least. Instead, we should focus on what causes me to NOT use other weapons more often.
Maybe this just applies to me and my friends, but many weapons in Apex Legends often feel inconsistent, unforgiving and unfair. Aside from different (and more powerful) recoil, factors like bullet speed, recoil patterns, bullet-drop and hipfire (in)accuracy make using weapons like the Flatline, R-99, Devotion, Havoc and Volt SMG somewhat tedious to use. R-301 is among one of the weapons I consider somewhat normal. And Spitfire is consistent, the recoil isn't annoying, it's forgiving and very versatile in many situations. I can sometimes hit multiple shots with a spitfire on distances over 100 meters which usually only succeeds on the first shot with other weapons.
I would rather consider making weapons more consistent between each other. Of course weapons like the flatline and R-99 should stay more difficult to use. But I do think it would be a fair game if weapons like Alternator, RE-45, Havoc, Volt SMG, R-301 and even the 30-30 Repeater would take the place of easier to use and more consistent weapons for the less skilled audience. I mean really, what's the deal with the RE-45? So low damage, yet the recoil is worse than the R-301. And Spitfire is still for me the most accurate to use out of all the weapons. Well, aside from snipers.
My suggestion: Leave Spitfire as it is, and adjust the weapons to be more consistent. I don't want to study a weapon's recoil pattern so I can use it efficiently. I also don't want to use knowledge like bullet drop and bullet speed to be more precise with weapons. Spitfire I can handle just fine. No shady recoil, decent on mid ranges, good on close quarters, overall forgiving. The rest? Not so much.
Yes, a little rant on my side, but I'm not the only one who thinks that. I have a whole group of friends who say the same.
- @Death_by_Sloth99 I recently won a game as caustic. Player skill is much more important than the loadout or legend. However, caustic should be doing more damage with his gas. It doesn't need to ramp up but it does need to hurt to incentivize players avoiding it. Incentives drive behavior. Also ad hominem is not welcome.
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