Why we can't rank up playing without a pre made team!!

@Muxtun 

I disagree. MMR is a 100 times better matchmaking variable than rank and the reason MMR based matchmaking works in arena is ofc because every match has one team of winners and one team of losers, i.e some players will lose MMR and some players will gain MMR every match and the amount they win/lose depends on the teams MMR vs the opponents MMR.

The difference between ranked in BR and ranked ARENA is that in BR, there is ONLY your rank (silver, bronze, Master etc) that is being used as variable to match people regardless how good or bad these people are. Hiding rats are matched with steam rolling 4k, 20 kill gamers if they happen to be in the same rank range. But in ARENA you are only matched after an individual hidden MMR value. Your current rank doest not matter in the matchmaking, only your MMR does. So if you are currently Bronze and keep getting matched against Platinums, that just means that your hidden MMR is too high for other average bronze player and is more in level with average Platinums. 

So dont mind your teammates rank because you can always know that all the players in your match have a similar hidden MMR as you. This can ofc be a little bit buggy early in the season but it should get better as time goes by.  

So you are saying someone that has played 15 Raked Arena games could in theory have the same HIDDEN MMR as a player that has played well over 100 Ranked Arena games and only lost roughly 5 games until GOLD 4?  If that is the case then the hidden MMR does not come playing Arenas at all, otherwise there is no way these values would even be close. As I stated, I only lost about 5 games till I got to Gold 4.   So how could I possibly have the same HIDDEN MMR as someone that has only played about 15 ranked Arena games?  If 5 losses out of 100  is equal 0 losses out of 15 then that would makes sense but then that brings up the question just how much 1 loss would cost your HIDDEN MMR or just how much does no losses elevate this hidden number?   Also I then question why there are no other GOLD 4 players that have the same HIDDEN MMR as I have.  One could easily say, "Well you just aren't very good, and that why you have said HIDDEN MMR."  But again, i say to that, I only lost about 5 games until I got gold 4.  So to me, this HIDDEN MMR must not work correctly.

Also is it trying to make the LOBBY fair with this HIDDEN MMR or the TEAM.  The reason I ask is say both sides have a total MMR of 999.  If three players have 333 MMR on both teams or close, that would be right.  But again the LOBBY is trying to match at 999 and one team has 3-333 and the other has 2- 150 and 1 - 699 then that is where the problem comes in.  Which is what I feel like its doing.  Otherwise once I hit gold 4 one would think I would at least SOMETIMES have another GOLD player on my team not 2 Bronze players and or players that have not even completed their 10 games.  Which again, I say, they could be great players, but you are still being placed with others that don't have the same EXPERIENCE.  Otherwise they would be out of BRONZE as it costs nothing to get out of besides time played,

I guess so but highly unlikely.  But lets take your very extreme case as example how it COULD work in theory

Player A, B and player C wins ALL their first 9 placement matches whereas Player X and player Z loses all their 9 first placement matches. In Player 1 FIRST placement match is he randomly matched AGAINST player A, B, C (all of them on 9/9 wins) and he is teamed WITH Player X and Z (both on a 9 game losing streak). Now lets say team Player 1 + Player X + Player Z wins and Player 1 hard carries that match 9 kills in 3 winning rounds. Then his gained MMR for his first placement match might increase with its maximum possible number.  Now lets say he does this in all his 10 placement matches. When he is done with the placement matches and can start play in Bronze4, his MMR is super high; much higher than the average Bronze and he is matched with Gold/Platinums. If he continues to win those matches, he will gain points very quickly thus soon reach the rank than corresponds best to his MMR, i.e the rank where most other with his MMR currently are. 

So losses and wins is not worth the same every match so it doesnt matter if you only lost 5 games prior to hitting gold 4. It all depends on your and your teams MMR vs your enemy and enemy teams MMR.  And if the system works properly, you should never get ranked match of average mmr "999" when one side has three 333 and one side two 100s and one 799... The only time this could happen in a properly designed rank system is if the game allows totally freely constructed premade. And thats why MMR is so good to base ranked on. Because if we take the example above: lets say you are super good and have 799 MMR and you want to carry me and one other, both of us at 100 MMR and the game allows us to play together by putting us in a average 999 MMR match. Then 

1) You would have to hard carry, basically 1v3 since all enemies are much better than both me and the third.

2) If we win, YOU wont almost get any points at all since your MMR of 799 is so much higher than the average 333 of the enemy players. 

3) if we loses, YOU would lose tons of points of the same reason.

So its kinda of a fail safe for people to boost each other I guess. But then again; I dont know a thing how Respawn implemented their MMR system so maybe we shouldn't assume to much =)

So may latest match was a REAL level 13 Player, and a REAL level 24 Player.  Both were still in their placement matches.  I'm not sure where there were in their Matches since they didn't tell me, but it pretty much proves my point, that once you hit gold, you get matched with much less EXPERIENCED players.  Also there is no way possible the 3 of us could have close to the same HIDDEN MMR as they were VERY NEW PLAYERS to APEX and they BOTH had not even finished their PLACEMENT MATCHES.  Which again leads me to believe, they are trying to fill the LOBBY with roughly the same HIDDEN MMR not the TEAM.  I've also asked every single player I have played with, and I've been playing a lot today, NOT ONE was GOLD RANK.  Rocket League had the same kind of ranking system.  What they did right though, is they placed you with players that were actually at your skill level and you played other players that were also at your skill level.  It was not perfect by any means but at least when you joined a game, you knew you were not going to get a brand new player on your team even at the third lowest ranks such as GOLD in APEX.  

And it just did it again.  I've now gone from 1 win away to GOLD 3 all the way down to 1 loss away from going back to SIVLER.  Not a single game today did I get ANY Teammates that were GOLD rank.  Not 1.   Most of my teammates have been playing the game less than 2 months, Given their actual level they display.  I played with much better players when I was in SILVER rank.  So what that tells me is, again, they are filling the LOBBY at a specific MMR not the TEAM.  I'm sure when I was silver, I was playing with GOLD players.  But now that I'm the GOLD player I'm playing with BRONZE players over and over and over and over and over and over and then I get 1 SILVER and then over and over and over again!  For me this season is a wash and not worst playing anymore.  If I can't carry 2 brand new players to a win, and they are boxes 10 seconds after the match starts, I'm pretty much out of options but to just stop playing.  It's not worth it to me, when they are unable it get the ARENA RANKING SYSTEM right.  So it takes me back to my original message, "Why we can't rank up playing without a pre made team."  Reason is, the SYSTEM might make the LOBBY right, but has proven they DON'T make the TEAMS right. 

@Muxtun 

Well what makes you so sure they were "real" level 13 and 24 players?  A truly real level 13 player has only played this game a couple of hours and dont even know how every weapon works. I find it quite unikely he would team up with a "real" lvl 24, which is someone with only 2-4 evenings of gaming, to play arena. Most likely Smurfs.

And besides; its very possible that someone will have gold MMR match in their placement matches. From the patch notes:

"When you first play Ranked Arenas, you start in placement matches. Your performance over these 10 matches will determine your initial MMR and your starting rank. MMR variance is wider initially, so these first 10 matches might be stomp-or-get-stomped until your MMR settles more."

So again; without knowing exactly how the ranked system works, I would guess that the main goal of t he placement match is trying to determine where approx. the player should start, and to do this, they probably test him at difference MMR levels depending how well or badly he performs  at each level.

This is also from the patch notes which explains the relation between your hidden MMR, which the matches are based on, and you visible rank:

"So, as an example: If you find yourself ranked Silver, but you’ve been consistently playing at a Platinum level, our system will go ahead and start matching you against other players with Platinum-level MMRs. If you win these matches, you’ll get a lot more Arenas Points (AP), which will make your visible rank catch up to Platinum quicker. If you lose these matches, likewise, you’ll lose fewer AP, and your MMR will invisibly drop until you’re matched more evenly."

They were both brand new players, we had a real discussion about it and it's very clear when neither even knew how to close the Weapon Selection Screen before the match started. One would think, if they were on SMURF accounts, they would at least close the WEAPON SELECTION MENU and before the time ran out and started at the blue see threw wall vs starting at their spawn location only after the match started.  Only did they know after I told them.  No one is trying to hide the fact that they are a SMURF by pretending they don't know how or that they can close the WEAPON SELECTION SCREEN.   

I love how the example shows if you are Silver level playing with Platinum level.  It seems to me they should give an example as to why if you are GOLD level and your Teammates are brand new, how does that change your MMR.  I find it ironic they give an example of the type of players you will face but not an example of how your own team is decided.  Again the example states, "our system will go ahead and start matching you against other players."   Matching you Against.

Says nothing about how your own team is selected.

@Muxtun 

Well it does say that. How you are being matched and how your team is selected is based on the same principles. For instance; if you play at a Gold2 MMR level and also happen to have the visible rank Gold2 and you get teammates or enemies that show "silver3" as visible rank, then they are selected for that match because they are playing better than the average silver3 player thus the system give them chance to go up against, what the system determines to be "more similar skilled opponents". If these silver 3 players cant handle it, then the system knows they should remain in silver  and if they continue to do well, then the system can keep matching them against tougher and tougher opponents until their settles on their "peak" Rank and MMR.

But whatever. It seems like you just come up with another "BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS" every time I try to explain something. MMR based matchmaking is what all games with one winner and one loser use, team-based or not. CSGO, LoL, Dota, Overwatch, Rainbow six siege etc etc and it works. Just give it some time. If too many of the active arena player base have tot few matches under their belt, the MMR is very far from have settled in, which may be the case for a weird matchmaking in the beginning of area ranked.