A Logical Critique of Controller Player Advantages in Apex Legends

And here we go again.

I'm not going to comment on whether this is a legitimate problem or the degree to which it is a legitimate problem. If you perceive a problem, or if I do, then we have a problem.

I'll limit myself to saying only what I usually conclude with on this issue. NO MORE CROSSPLAY may not solve every problem associated with either of our perceptions, but none of them can even begin to be addressed until lobbies are fully segregated. Period. It has to start there. Beyond that point, how the dev chooses to deal with a pc lobby where some players opt to use a controller... is beyond my pay grade. I don't know how they could police that issue, and even if there was a way then I have zero doubt that pc players in their legions would opt for a cheat industry solution.

Sorry for the grim picture, but there it is.

And just one quick aside on the subject of:

"This automated tracking:

– Follows enemy movement in close-quarters
– Reduces punishment for missed opening shots
– Enables high accuracy without equivalent mechanical input
– Provides extra stability during strafing or fast movement"

Ask any normal, average player if any of the above rings even remotely true of their controller experience and they will laugh at you. I think your observation in #5 is the reason for this. I think everything you're describing is something that either only happens at the highest levels of play or can only be perceived at the highest levels of play. It doesn't track with my experience in any way shape or form after 25+ years of aim-assisted multiplayer shooters.

And also, expect some pushback on the subject of keyboard/mouse advantages since they are largely the reason aim assist exists in the first place. I'm not going there, but be ready for it because someone will.

This is a response to your previous comment, and I’ll keep it focused on the actual issues I raised:
Controller-on-PC abuse, cheating synergy, and the ongoing neglect of the Asia region.

First, I need to clarify something essential:
You are describing your own experience with normal controller play.
I am describing a completely different phenomenon that affects PC lobbies, especially in Asia.
These are not the same thing, and treating them as if they are is exactly why this problem never gets taken seriously.

1. “Average controller players don’t feel that kind of tracking” — That is not the point.

The issue I am talking about is not the standard controller aim assist used by normal players.

The issue is the interaction between PC-level responsiveness + aim assist + cheat tools,
which creates a level of automated tracking that is absolutely not part of normal controller gameplay.

If you’ve never encountered a cheater using a controller on PC,
then of course your own experience will not match what I’m describing.

But my experience did happen — repeatedly — and it is documented across the Asia region.

**2. You mention that this may only appear “at the highest levels of play.”

That is incorrect for Asia.**

In the Asia region, especially during the current Wildcard mode,
these incidents are common even at low and mid-level MMR.
Players are openly combining:

controller input (for AA)

PC cheats (for tracking enhancement)

VPNs (to avoid penalties)

This is not speculation. It is a daily reality in many Asia lobbies.

If something is “not visible in your experience,”
that does not mean it isn’t happening elsewhere — especially in the most neglected region.

3. “NO MORE CROSSPLAY” does not solve the actual issue I raised.

I’m not talking about platform balancing.

I’m talking about a structural vulnerability:

A controller on PC can be paired with cheat software in a way a console cannot.

Removing crossplay does not change this.
Segregating lobbies does not change this.
What I am talking about continues to exist regardless of matchmaking design.

So bringing up crossplay here does nothing but move the discussion away from the real problem.

4. This is not a KBM vs Controller debate at all.

I am not attacking controller players.
I am not arguing about input balance.
I am not comparing mechanical advantages.

I am pointing out that:

Controller aim assist + PC cheat tools form a synergy that the developers have failed to prevent,
and Asia is the region suffering from it the most because it is effectively unmanaged.

That is the issue.
Nothing in your comment addresses this.

5. The Asia region’s neglect is a central part of the problem.

Cheaters are rarely banned.
Reports disappear without action.
Matchmaking is unstable.
Players VPN freely to dodge penalties.
And this environment makes controller + cheat abuse far more visible here than anywhere else.

You may not experience this problem in your region,
but Asia players do — constantly.

Conclusion

Your points describe standard controller play.
My points describe the abuse of controller mechanics on PC using cheat tools in neglected Asia lobbies.

These are separate realities.

Until the developers acknowledge this specific combination —
controller input + PC cheat tools + region neglect —
this issue will keep appearing, regardless of crossplay or platform differences.

That is why I raised it, and that is why I will continue to call it out.

I think this problem has crept into all servers.  I too believe that MnK and Controller need separate lobbies.  Both have advantages and disadvantages over the other that do not make them compatible in the same game.  I believe MnK has way more advantages since I've played both and the movement advantages are unfair to controller players, and while it doesn't have AA I found MnK easier for managing recoil and being able to switch between targets faster, but it may be a matter of preference.  Controller definitely has the advantage with tracking.  

I have been playing where one game I get 2k damage and several kills, and then one game later I happen to get thrown into a lobby full of these MnK movement guys and can't get one shot in and if I didn't have one on my team I would never even get rezzed to last to the end of the match.  If you watch some of Faide's matches on Youtube there is a move he does where he circles around the player real fast with a PK or Mastiff and shoots them while spinning around the person.  No controller player has any way at all to counter this.   Don't get me wrong, I like watching Faide and others that use MnK, and I think what they do is a performance art and can be exciting and almost hypnotic to watch, but they aren't even playing the same game as controller players and they desperately need their own lobbies so they can play against each other.

Also, the cheating is out of control and they need to do away with these devices.  I had one player on my team that said on his headset to his friend, "I actually enjoy playing apex again now that I have this, I no longer have recoil and don't even have to aim, I just press the button and automatically shoot whoever is there."  I can only assume the "this" he mentioned is either a device or hack.  If he really wants to enjoy apex he needs to set aside some Saturdays to go into the firing range for a whole day and work on his aim and movement like the rest of us, and enjoy the fruits of his labors and not the fruits of a computer programmer's labors.

I believe the hit reg issue that many leave the game over will work itself out once the cheater situation is corrected since some have told me that is caused by too many hacks and devices having a "parasite" effect on the server and causing technical problems.  So, if they would only give us separate lobbies for inputs and get rid of cheaters the game would probably outsell Fortnite and become the best FPS on the market.

I'll just say this: if the controller weren't more powerful than the MnK, we'd have a balance between the two for pro players. Currently, few people play MnK compared to top Apex players. No matter what the reasons are - the difference is very clear and for some reason developers do not see it or do not want to see it. Countless people have left since crossplay was introduced. Countless people have left since cheaters dominated the game.

Half my lobby is TikTok, Twitch, and other such nonsense in nicknames. I go live and of course, I'm a controller. Yeaaaaah, I have AA, I'm cool and the best. Cringe. No pleasant matches because I end up getting crushed at the beginning or end of the match by a controller that has me down to one clip.

"You are describing your own experience with normal controller play.
I am describing a completely different phenomenon that affects PC lobbies, especially in Asia.
These are not the same thing, and treating them as if they are is exactly why this problem never gets taken seriously."

I knew that you weren't taking aim at all console players, but the clarification is greatly appreciated. And the reason so many controller players get tight jawed whenever this subject comes up is because many mnk players have stated plainly that THE FIX for the problem is to simply end all aim assist regardless of platform. This is the reason why I take pains to get mnk players to say very clearly that this is not a console vs. pc problem. It's a pc vs. pc problem.

Your original post not in any way shape of form was about Console controller players using cheat devices. It was written sorely based on Controller aim assist - your words. 

Then after Recon's post, you continue to say the post was regarding cheaters on controller. Quite a huge massive thing to forget to mention on the first post, don't you think? 

I also couldn't help but notice you mentioned nothing about cheating, hacking on PC levels. Especially seeing as how, there are over 10 times more options to cheat on PC than controller. 

Controller (Console) aim assist has been dialed down from 0.6 to I believe its 0.3 now... correct me if I'm wrong. If controller is so superior as you suggested - simple, use one yourself. Go ahead, make the jump, buy a PS5 and become a GOD at Apex gaming and destroy PC players with ease and without doing anything, because you know, the aim assist corrects for you and gets you free kills.

I would love to hear your complaints after that move while in PC lobbies  : ) 

You are addressing arguments I never made, so let me clarify the situation very clearly.

My post was not about console players and not about standard controller aim assist.
It was about PC players who use a controller specifically to pair aim assist with cheat software, which is a completely different situation from console aim assist balancing.

This distinction matters, because:

Console players cannot install PC-level cheats

PC aim assist behaves differently due to higher responsiveness

Asia lobbies are experiencing these abuses far more frequently due to lack of enforcement

So when you say “just buy a PS5 if you think controller is so strong,”
you’re responding to a topic that I never brought up.

**1. “You never mentioned cheating in your original post.”

This is simply incorrect.**

The entire context of my post was:

PC lobbies

Asia server neglect

controller input being used for abuse

behaviors that do not appear in normal console gameplay

The problem appears only where PC cheats exist.
If that wasn’t clear to you, then the misunderstanding is on your side, not mine.

2. The number of PC cheating options is irrelevant to my point.

Yes, PC cheating is widespread.
That is exactly why the combination of:

controller input + PC cheats

creates a uniquely problematic scenario.

I am not listing all cheat types.
I am describing a specific exploit pattern that affects Asia lobbies and Wild Card mode.

3. Console aim assist values (0.6 → 0.3) have nothing to do with this issue.

Console aim assist strength does not matter here because:

the exploit occurs on PC, not console

the behavior is caused by cheat tools, not standard aim assist

the problem exists in PC hardware, not on PlayStation

Bringing up PS5 aim assist tuning completely misses the point.
Again, we are not talking about console gameplay.

**4. “If controller is so strong, use it yourself.”

This argument misunderstands the entire issue.**

A normal controller on console does not recreate the issue I described.
I am not claiming “controller = free wins.”

I am saying:

controller + cheats + PC environment = behavior that does NOT exist on console.

That is the difference you are ignoring.

5. Conclusion

You are debating a version of my post that you imagined, not the one I actually wrote.

My critique is about:

controller being used on PC

combined with PC cheat software

especially in Asia, where enforcement is extremely weak

currently amplified by Wild Card mode

This has nothing to do with:

console players

console aim assist values

“just buy a PS5”

input preference debates

Please respond to the argument that was made — not to the argument you wish I had made.

Thanks for actually taking the time to understand the distinction — it really does make the conversation much clearer.
And yes, you summarized it perfectly:

This isn’t a console vs. PC issue.
It’s a PC–vs–PC abuse problem enabled by weak enforcement and an input loophole.

That’s exactly why I get so frustrated whenever the discussion gets derailed into
“remove aim assist from console”
or
“just switch to controller.”

Normal controller users — especially on console — aren’t the people causing the problem.
They’re not installing external tools, they’re not pairing PC responsiveness with cheats, and they’re not the ones dominating Wild Card lobbies in Asia through blatantly assisted tracking.

The people causing the damage are:

PC users

plugging in a controller

running cheat software

and exploiting the fact that Asia servers are barely moderated

That’s the part that needs to be addressed.

I genuinely appreciate that you took the time to read the intent instead of filling in assumptions.
Conversations like this are the only way to separate the real issue from the usual input-war noise.

Lol, there that's much better. Well done. 

With the whole controller aim assist console vs PC debate far out of control and exhausted, one has to be very accurate when firing up that one. 

1. Cross play Has Increased the Disparity

Cross play was meant to unify the community, but without proper input balancing, it created a lopsided environment:

– Mixed lobbies give controller players higher survivability

So above are your words from your original post. My confusion came from the fact that your original post did you clarify in one single aspect that you were referring to PC players using controllers vs PC players using mouse and keyboard. Cross play to me, does not mean a PC against a PC, rather platform vs platform. Can you see why I would have assumed base on your original post and the words quoted above that you were referring to console controllers aim assist vs PC mouse and keyboard? 

I will agree with you, every time i see these "Remove Aim assist" post, Much like you, I get very frustrated.

I appreciate the clarification, and although I do not know what you are going through in that regard (console player) - I do fully agree with your gripes, especially when it comes to competitive integrity.