Kinda difficult to get better when you're stuck in lobbies playing people on their 10th account because they don't like playing people of their own caliber

Correct skill base matchmaking has made smurfing much more present. I feel Apex is horrendous for it.I just moved to PC and I'm in the "placement" matches and there is people each game 20+ kills. If I made my own matchmaking it would be based of average damage.This is based off it's still skill based but not fully. The people who think they are good but just take kills all game will still be low average damage. On top of that some high average damage players aren't necessarily good. I feel it truly mixes the pool in a match.So say 0-299 , 300-599 , 600-899 , 900 - 1199 etc. If number of players are low obviously mix match pool by like 1 pool up 1 pool down.

Hard to get better at the game | EA Forums

34 Replies

Axs5626Sxa5001
4 years ago
@kr1spychick3n So would you agree that stricter matchmaking has magnified the smurfing problem?
kr1spychick3n
4 years ago
Correct skill base matchmaking has made smurfing much more present. I feel Apex is horrendous for it.
I just moved to PC and I'm in the "placement" matches and there is people each game 20+ kills.
If I made my own matchmaking it would be based of average damage.
This is based off it's still skill based but not fully. The people who think they are good but just take kills all game will still be low average damage. On top of that some high average damage players aren't necessarily good. I feel it truly mixes the pool in a match.
So say
0-299 , 300-599 , 600-899 , 900 - 1199 etc.
If number of players are low obviously mix match pool by like 1 pool up 1 pool down.
Kyldenar
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
Except that Apex is not SBMM at all, but EOMM.
They want to keep you frustrated chasing that Windmill...
Axs5626Sxa5001
4 years ago
@kr1spychick3n Whatever metric you want to use (kills, or wins, or average damage), it seems like you want people playing their equals/doppelgängers.

I love this idea for ranked but hate it for pubs.

The problem with this is the problem of equal outcomes. I know people that want people to always play their equal in pubs, which of course means that everyone is having outcomes (winning) at similar rates. So below average players end up winning at rates similar to people above average.

Are you in this camp?

I’m definitely not. I feel like ranked should do a better job at being the “tighter skill” mode so everyone who wants equal win rates can go there. But pubs (in my mind) should be the place where players get variance. Some of the people in your lobby are great and some are not. Every engagement is a mixed bag. I think this is actually more fair than an algorithm specifically curating lobbies to make people “feel good” so they can spend money.
kr1spychick3n
4 years ago
I feel the average damage does give the mixed bag. You could get a team with one sniper one caustic and a really good movement player. That all get their damage in different ways. My idea with this has nothing to do with feeling good. I genuinely feel matchmaking with average damage gives you a really good field of players. If you watch players who can get 20+kills they don't necessarily drop average DMG of 1500. You have to almost steal a lot of kills to be in that 20kill range.
Axs5626Sxa5001
4 years ago
@kr1spychick3nThat’s a fair response— and please know I’m not explicitly saying you are indeed for equal outcomes.

I wonder how your proposed matchmaking would pan out.
How do you feel about random or connection based matchmaking? (With the exception of newer players. Newer players absolutely positively deserve special lobbies)
kr1spychick3n
4 years ago
Yep I understand you're just saying that's how devs currently have a lot of games. Like a safe space almost.
Yes to bad it will never happen. I would really love a complete weapons overhaul. All new weapons. We are nearing 4 years with all the same stuff. The volt has only been in for 2ish but it still feels like it's been in since release.
They are doing a pretty good job adding content but I think it might be time to overhaul. Make it feel fresh again. It would give people an opportunity to even out the skill base a bit to as everyone would be learning new guns and maps and what not.
hayhor
Hero
4 years ago
@kr1spychick3nDamage on this game is inflated much too easily by weakening players and letting them heal and doing it again. Proper sbmm needs to account for a lot of things, which apex does.
And no true 20 kill player has 1500 damage. They will typically have 4000 damage.
kr1spychick3n
4 years ago
This may come off rude but you obviously didn't read or think about what I wrote. You just instantly, went to defence mode and replied.
1) yes DMG is easily inflicted but average damage is a much different stat. Everyone's evens out somewhere on a scale. No one goes into games saying I'm getting 10k damage this game, why? Because you still need to kill people. If you fight for too long you get third partied. So yes people have high damage games but their average damage will stop on scale somewhere. That scale is what would be used as match making. Not in pubs now where you have 4 pred 3 stacks. All the rest are solo ques made of 1 decent player one ok player and 1 new player. Cause that's all their matchmaking currently does
2) again you didn't read to understand what I wrote at all. A person who can get 20 kills in a game there damage that game will be 2k to 4k but their average damage is probably 1k-1.5k. why because at the beginning of a match you need to steal kills from everyone to achieve 20kills in a game.
So please next time, take your time. Read every comment and really try to understand whats being said.
hayhor
Hero
4 years ago
@kr1spychick3n I read what you said. No reason to be rude about it. I was not rude to you, I simply disagreed. Is this an open discussion or not?

One statistic for matchmaking is bad. You will never convince me something is this simple. Life isn't. Average damage should be a big part of it. I will agree with that. But KD should too because KD averages out too. There are not people out there that only steal and never lose kills. Wins and placement also matter.

I am not sure if you are aware but if you leave a game after dropping from the ship it counts against your average damage. When I solo queue I leave every time a person drops poorly or is toxic. This results in me leaving around 15% of my matches overall because I do play with friends at times. I wonder sometimes if this average value is used in the current algorithm because if it is, it can be exploited.

From my experience, the current biggest influences are-
1- How many people are queued at the same time. Speed of matchmaking means more than anything. If matchmaking is not fast, people stop playing. This trumps the rest and is why the matchmaker has the issues it does.
2- Premade or not. If you are not a masters or pred, this has a huge affect as you end up in premade lobbies. It is wrong and results in people who should not be in good lobbies being there.
3- Max rank. Making masters or pred at any point in your Apex time means you will usually get chucked into those lobbies. Yes, those people do sometimes go down and farm but it is not often.
4- Top 5 finishes and Wins- I figured out in season 12 and 13 that constantly finished in the top 5, even if you shoot no one, typically moves you into much harder lobbies. I did this by experimenting with no fill. When no filling I was a lot more careful with fights. Many times I could not finish kills so I would get pretty far with a good amount of damage but only a couple kills. I actually believe this is why many low skilled players end up in lobbies they should not be. These people generally play for end game in pubs and then get steamrolled and complain that the people that steamrolled them are 3 stacks or top level players.
5- Some combination of KD and damage. I have not really studied this because with 16k matches I cannot really affect it much.