Community Manager@aceuTivesseMiraI'm with you on this.
Imo, when I think of someone who hate camping:
- They are players who get stuck in the those 1990 games. They want the enemy stands in front of them, fight them in the most fair play combat. And when they got killed by someone behind? They will cry "this coward is a camper, he's less 'skillful' then me"
Lol they deny the fact that they were outsmarted by a smarter guy.
Please, go and play Quake, Unreal Tournament, Halflife. In those games, you don't have to use brain at all, only "pure skills" needed. 1990s titles were all bout "pure skills".
Sorry I'm wrong, new Contra game coming soon. Absolutely no campers in that game.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHEXT4HAJ_M
Luckily, there is no "crawl" button in Apex Legends lol
Its Apex Predator, not Apex Scavenger. Will give a more detailed reply when home but this is the TL DR in advance.
@d3adc3II wrote:@AnlbrdPredator as in Lion, Tiger, Panther? 🙂
Such animal don't rush and kill everything that moves. They camp, wait for the chance and quickly finish the prey with 100% success rate.
It's predator in my book.
//Just saying
What passive lions have you come across XD? Lions, tigers and panthers don’t ‘camp’. They stalk. That’s a completely different style of observing. They wait, while silently approaching/distancing themselves ready to pounce at the right time. Campers... well they basically sit as far as possible and observe with no plan of attacking usually untill they’re found out.
@Koochi-Q wrote:
@d3adc3II wrote:@AnlbrdPredator as in Lion, Tiger, Panther? 🙂
Such animal don't rush and kill everything that moves. They camp, wait for the chance and quickly finish the prey with 100% success rate.
It's predator in my book.
//Just sayingWhat passive lions have you come across XD? Lions, tigers and panthers don’t ‘camp’. They stalk. That’s a completely different style of observing. They wait, while silently approaching/distancing themselves ready to pounce at the right time. Campers... well they basically sit as far as possible and observe with no plan of attacking usually untill they’re found out.
Not related but i like the way you play with words. Seem like the way we understand camping is very different haha
@Koochi-Q wrote:
@d3adc3II wrote:@AnlbrdPredator as in Lion, Tiger, Panther? 🙂
Such animal don't rush and kill everything that moves. They camp, wait for the chance and quickly finish the prey with 100% success rate.
It's predator in my book.
//Just sayingWhat passive lions have you come across XD? Lions, tigers and panthers don’t ‘camp’. They stalk. That’s a completely different style of observing. They wait, while silently approaching/distancing themselves ready to pounce at the right time. Campers... well they basically sit as far as possible and observe with no plan of attacking usually untill they’re found out.
It is impossible for you to know what a "camper" has done before killing you. They may have seen you moving minutes before and set up for an ambush, or their team structure may favour them setting up traps and waiting for the blind rushers to run in to their slaughter lol.
I really do laugh at all these camper comments and how lack of kill XP is bad. This game is not solely about kill stacking, and is not solely about your personal stats.
I can see some egos will be crushed. Some think they are far better than they are and will complain about how the system is ranking them incorrectly, and the genuine skilled players will not be dropping 15-20 bombs when they are playing equally skilled players.
People need to see how this plays out before squawking about how "bad" it is. Seems pretty balance to me.
@Silz616Personally it's not about stats - it's about the woeful impact of certain kinds of incentive on general gameplay. The encouragement to hide and actively avoid fights in the elite queue made even the normal queue not worth playing for the first two weeks for me. The game became tedious, and that's not because I'm some attention deficit destroyer who wants to facetank squads and get 20bombs all day long - it's because I play the game to shoot and be shot at with guns : not hunt down teams who haven't even looted weapons and are just trying to avoid moving and making any noise.
I'm not worried about my rank being positively or negatively affected by how they score me : it will be what it will be. I'm worried that the games will once again become drawn out snoozefests where I find as many people AVOIDING getting into any kind of fight as people actually playing with me. This is exactly what happened in the elite queue - there's no good reason to present a counter-incentive to getting more kills.
[edit] - I don't think the sky is falling because worst case : I'll just stop playing ranked like I did with the elite queue. It just seems fairly obvious given evidence of the effect this kind of incentive had before of how this is likely to play out.
@Anlbrd wrote:@Silz616Personally it's not about stats - it's about the woeful impact of certain kinds of incentive on general gameplay. The encouragement to hide and actively avoid fights in the elite queue made even the normal queue not worth playing for the first two weeks for me. The game became tedious, and that's not because I'm some attention deficit destroyer who wants to facetank squads and get 20bombs all day long - it's because I play the game to shoot and be shot at with guns : not hunt down teams who haven't even looted weapons and are just trying to avoid moving and making any noise.
I'm not worried about my rank being positively or negatively affected by how they score me : it will be what it will be. I'm worried that the games will once again become drawn out snoozefests where I find as many people AVOIDING getting into any kind of fight as people actually playing with me. This is exactly what happened in the elite queue - there's no good reason to present a counter-incentive to getting more kills.
[edit] - I don't think the sky is falling because worst case : I'll just stop playing ranked like I did with the elite queue. It just seems fairly obvious given evidence of the effect this kind of incentive had before of how this is likely to play out.
Wait and see.
I think once players find (and accept) their ranking, this will work out great.
They should not encourage any type of game play, but make all styles viable. Why do you think we are getting Wattson? As a counter to face tanking rushers. Movement already favours the mover, so anybody complaining about being killed by a camper needs to check their "skill" gauge lol.
I love fast paced matches. I also love the slower more tense battles. I like variety which Apex gives. One trick ponies may suffer, but it's up to players to adapt. Especially if they are self proclaimed "Elites" or high skilled players. Skill is not doing x1 thing over and over imo.
I think they will nail this, but it may not be perfected for a while as they tweak and analyse their data.
This is all academic anyway - I'll be playing the game as hard as I can : I'm passing the time here with anyone else not currently playing and passing on my opinions for what little they're worth to the devs/publishers. I try to be well reasoned and without a selfish agenda outside of trying to improve the game.
It feels like something is getting lost in translation at the minute. The developers must INTEND for things like the elite queue to have some kind of effect, and I simply can't believe it's to create the result that we see an exponential growth of the number of teams trying their absolute best to not get in on the game, quit when they hit top5 and re-queue.
People can rank up as camper in lower level but they eventually has to step up their game/playstyle to higher level:
2. Camping guys: Know every inch of the map, try to avoid contact at all cost, drop to isolated place, get enough ammo, shield, heal as necessary then start play hide and seek and try to get as high as possible.
They will get up to 7 RP. Take around 10-15 minute for each cycle.
Disadvantage: This style will struggle in higher level since it take RP to join (5RP in diamond). They need to adapt to play style 3 on higher level.
3. Caculated guys: Love strategy, Deploy hide/seek strategy as needed (only attack when they have to attack) and try to third party and steal the win at the end.
They might get 5RP and probably top 3 and sometimes steal win,so total between 10RP -17RP.
The dev try to accomodate all play styles but to be predator, you need to step up your playstyle.
One reason is RP cost will drag their progress:
Bronze (cost 0) : Hotdrop (max 5 RP), Camping (max 7 RP).
Silver (cost 1) : Hotdrop (max 4 RP) , Camping (max 6 RP).
Gold (cost 2) : Hotdrop (max 3 RP) , Camping (max 5 RP ).
Platinum (cost 3) : Hotdrop (max 2 RP), Camping (max 4 RP).
Diamond (cost 4) : Hotdrop (max 1 RP), Camping (max 3 RP).
Another reason is camping is getting harder and harder on higher level.
1. Bronze : Most players are noobs, I can easily hide to top 3.
2. Silver : Most players are so so, I can easily hide to top 5 or 3.
3. Gold :Camping getting harder since you can't get spot at all or you risk to die early. They start to struggle to get top 3, but still can get top 5.
If they get top 5 (4RP but cost 2RP), they will get 2RP. It start getting become grinding considering huge amount of time needed 10-15 min to get only 2RP.
4. Platinum: Camping style really struggle here since most hiding spot already identified by top player and once spotted, directly die. They will struggle to top-5.
When you have to pay 4RP to get maximum 4RP(top-5), you get NOTHING, then you start questioning yourself what I'm doing here, doing nothing for 15 minutes??
5. Diamond : Only stubborn "mole" left.
6. Predator : Calculate and aggressive style only.
Moral of the story, you can choose your playstyle that suit your personality in the beginning level since each style will get RP, some faster than other,
but eventually you will have to adapt your style to next level since it takes RP to join higher level (unless you're #5)
1. Bronze : All play styles.
2. Silver : All play styles.
3. Gold : Hot drop start to struggle, camping still ok but getting harder since you can't get spot at all or you die immediately.
4. Platinum: Hot drop style can only get 2 point max, camping style really struggle here since most hiding spot already identified.
5. Diamond : No more hot drop, and very few camping style, only left calculated and agressive style.
6. Predator : Calculate and aggressive style only.
As you can see, Hot drop and camping style will naturally phase-out in higher level.
The problem I foresee is when higher level guy run out RP to play on that level, they have to farm RP on lower level or bronze (worst case), then they will reck the experience of the noobs.
Gold (need 2RP). They originally have 280 RP, then they play so bad, until run out to 0RP. Then they have to farm on bronze.
@asukojo wrote:The dev try to accomodate all play styles but to be predator, you need to step up your playstyle.
One reason is RP cost will drag their progress:
Bronze (cost 0) : Hotdrop (max 5 RP), Camping (max 7 RP).
Silver (cost 1) : Hotdrop (max 4 RP) , Camping (max 6 RP).
Gold (cost 2) : Hotdrop (max 3 RP) , Camping (max 5 RP).
Platinum (cost 3) : Hotdrop (max 2 RP), Camping (max 4 RP).
Diamond (cost 4) : Hotdrop (max 1 RP), Camping (max 3 RP).
Another reason is camping is getting harder and harder on higher level.
Moral of the story, you can choose your playstyle that suit your personality in the beginning level since each style will get RP, some faster than other,
but eventually you will have to adapt your style to next level since it takes RP to join higher level (unless you're #5)
1. Bronze : All play styles.
2. Silver : All play styles.
3. Gold : Hot drop start to struggle, camping still ok but getting harder since you can't get spot at all or you die immediately.
4. Platinum: Hot drop style can only get 2 point max, camping style really struggle here since most hiding spot already identified.
5. Diamond : No more hot drop, and very few camping style, only left calculated and agressive style.
6. Predator : Calculate and aggressive style only.
As you can see, Hot drop and camping style will naturally phase-out in higher level.
If that is how it ends up play out then that's great imo.
@asukojo wrote:The problem I foresee is when higher level guy run out RP to play on that level, they have to farm RP on lower level or bronze (worst case), then they will reck the experience of the noobs.
Gold (need 2RP). They originally have 280 RP, then they play so bad, until run out to 0RP. Then they have to farm on bronze.
A possible solution would be to have it so players can only earn RP by playing on the next rank down from the one they're in? As you can't be demoted I don't see how this could harm things, whereas the bottom of the top tier needing to earn RP by farming it in lower tiers would just ruin the experience of the guys still learning.
@EA_Blueberry @EA_David - Sorry for off-topic but any news on the changes to Pathfinder which were mentioned before? It was said that there'd be more revealed in the lead-up to the S2 launch.
@asukojo "As you can see, Hot drop and camping style will naturally phase-out in higher level."
This is absolutely untrue. Yes, hot dropping will phase out, but camping will get WORSE. The higher the RP cost is per match, the less incentive there is for risking death by playing aggressive. This is undeniable common sense. This is further compounded by the extremely low kill cap of 5.
If I'm at my 5 kills and I've spent 4 RP to join my match, my instinct will be "run away like a little girl!!!!" every time I hear shots because at that moment in time, I have NO WAY of gaining anymore RP besides placement.
Mark my words....Diamond will have the highest amounts of camping and sissy game-play than any other stage because you stand more to loose by playing aggressive than you did in the early stages. Diamond matches will have 6 squads left if the final circle, each hiding in a house or behind a rock, with longbows and trippletakes. Rounds will be well over 20min each, and it'll be a game of who had the better house to camp in, all because of the steep RP cost of each match and lack of incentive to play aggressive.
@MrZwitz wrote:@Silz616"As you can see, Hot drop and camping style will naturally phase-out in higher level."
This is absolutely untrue. Yes, hot dropping will phase out, but camping will get WORSE. The higher the RP cost is per match, the less incentive there is for risking death by playing aggressive. This is undeniable common sense. This is further compounded by the extremely low kill cap of 5.
If I'm at my 5 kills and I've spent 4 RP to join my match, my instinct will be "run away like a little girl!!!!" every time I hear shots because at that moment in time, I have NO WAY of gaining anymore RP besides placement.
Mark my words....Diamond will have the highest amounts of camping and sissy game-play than any other stage because you stand more to loose by playing aggressive than you did in the early stages. Diamond will have 6 squads left if the final circle, each hiding in a house or behind a rock, with longbows and trippletakes. Rounds will be well over 20min each, and it'l be a game of who had the better house to camp in, all because of the steep RP cost of each match and lack of incentive to play aggressive.
You miss quoted me. I didn't say that.
The analysis you did quote is how I hope it pans out. Nobody will know until the end of this season.
The rest of your post has been covered by many other posters in many threads before. It's a BR and not TDM. Slow play is a style. Aggressive is a style. Camping is a style. This is a BR. Deal with it. You would if you were good enough!
@Silz616Sorry about that. I fixed my post.
But to your point, this is a thread about RANKED mode where the purpose is to show who are the most skilled and elite players in the game. In its current state, it's hypothetically possible to become earn Apex Predator without every firing a shot. You just have to camp to top 3. This is not a measure of skill whatsoever. It does not take skill to hear gun shots and run in the opposite direction.
If they simply removed the kill cap, all play styles would be rewarded. But as it stands, camping is the most rewarding playstyle, and that is not a measure of skill.
Obviously if you do not have enough rp to play in that tier because you lost to many times you do not deserve to be in that tier
Camping is getting harder and harder on higher level.
1. Bronze : Most players are noobs, I can easily hide to top 3.
2. Silver : Most players are so so, I can easily hide to top 5 or 3.
3. Gold :Camping getting harder since you can't get spot at all or you risk to die early. They start to struggle to get top 3, but still can get top 5.
If they get top 5 (4RP but cost 2RP), they will get 2RP. It start getting become grinding considering huge amount of time needed 10-15 min to get only 2RP.
4. Platinum: Camping style really struggle here since most hiding spot already identified by top player and once spotted, directly die. They will struggle to top-5.
When you have to pay 4RP to get maximum 4RP(top-5), you get NOTHING, then you start questioning yourself what I'm doing here, doing nothing for 15 minutes??
Only stubborn "mole" stay persistent here.
5. Diamond : Calculate and aggressive style only.
6. Predator : Calculate and aggressive style only.
I know that trick, there's youtube video discuss it in details 🙂
But It's not my playstyle and my kid hate it :
- dad, you're chicken
- you're so boring
- are you a man or woman?
- I want to play as well
- you're wasting everybody time
- what is the point of this??
....etc :P
Note:
As time flies, most experience player knows all the hiding place and they will start looking for campers to get the points.
@MrZwitzI don't think that will fly in Predator. At that level, the importance of loot grows a lot since everyone can delete any player in a mere second. It will require great positioning and equipment (loot) to win fights. That loot doesn't fly to you if you're just hard camping.
The ones who actually win a couple of fights in a loot dense area will come out with a golden bag, hopups and a good supply of arcstars and batteries. Those will be the deciding factors at high level play (IMO).
The fact that one could in theory actually go from Diamond to Predator in about 24h by just camping consistently to top 3 is concerning though.
@MrZwitz wrote:@Silz616Sorry about that. I fixed my post.
But to your point, this is a thread about RANKED mode where the purpose is to show who are the most skilled and elite players in the game. In its current state, it's hypothetically possible to become earn Apex Predator without every firing a shot. You just have to camp to top 3. This is not a measure of skill whatsoever. It does not take skill to hear gun shots and run in the opposite direction.
If they simply removed the kill cap, all play styles would be rewarded. But as it stands, camping is the most rewarding playstyle, and that is not a measure of skill.
No, my friend. It's very difficult if you ask me.
it's hypothetically possible to become earn Apex Predator without every firing a shot.
Yes, it's possible t o camp to top 3 and grind your way to higher rank.
However, it's extremely difficult to do it constantly.
Trust me, it won't happen very often. The higher you climb, the more difficult it will be. Players are human, human can adapt.
For example: if someone really play extremely passive, hide and seek the whole game, just move when he really needs too. He will lose more than gain.
In the highest rank, entre fee costs 5 RP, which mean he needs to kill 5 or top 3 with 2 kills just to pay the entry cost, right ? In order to earn positive RP, that player need to work alot harder than others
If he dun kill anyone, he will lose more RP then he earns in the long run. Don't fight = less equipment, basic weapon. Don't kill = he relies only on the RP from placement. Maximum possible RP is 7 ( after minus the entry fee)
How far can he go? If he reaches top 3 in 1 game, and die early in another 3 games. He gain nothing.
Trust me when i say only the skilled players can play in the rank. Period.
Community ManagerSo what's everyone's thoughts on playing ranked matches so far?
We were dropping into a lot of hot zones and didn't have any luck getting kills, so I felt like I lost a lot of points from loading back to the menu, selecting the Legend again, and so on....
Later in the night we toned down our aggressiveness a bit and won as Champion with a total of 2 squad kills (we actually respawned 3 times!), but had a couple games where we each got 4 kills and finished 2nd and 3rd. That's when the RP's started to roll in. We didn't really plan to camp and were looking to attack some other players but they just didn't show up until the end.
There were moments when we decide to defend a higher elevation because we knew players would come in from a certain choke point. I think that's what aspect of the game you can't take for granted. Map knowledge/awareness is so crucial.
