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@Wingmannedbro wrote:
@unferthington wrote:
@GRiPSViGiL wrote:We in here talkin' 'bout cosmetics? I mean...listen! We talkin' 'bout cosmetics? Not a Game, Not a Game! Not a game! We talkin' 'bout Cosmetics Man! How silly is that?!
I just don't care about what cosmetics cost.
-points for anyone that gets this referenceSeriously, I can't believe people cry so much over loot packs. Those are the teenagers, they have no concept of the value of money cause mommies credit card buys them the loot packs.
I doubt any teens out there can actually convince their mothers to spend more than a week worth of groceries for the family for a couple of Apex skins.
Unless they are rich af, but then they would just buy it with their daily allowance.
I just looked at the prices of the Iron Crown stuff, yeah it's crazy. I would buy those legendary Iron Crown skins, but only for like $10 each at most. $18 or $20 or whatever it is, is too crazy. And I don't play loot crate lotto.
"Iron Crown Event: Is it a predatory monetisation tactic?"
lol, it's not like fifa or hs where you need to pay to play at a decent rank, op is talking about skins for heroes in a fps (we don't even see them LOL)
- 6 years ago@NaRnIaaa You're right in that what's going on here isn't a form of pay-to-win tactic.
I'm not suggesting that what's happening here is utterly outrageous either.
If people want something they have to pay for it, that's how it works and how it'll always work.
Though I do raise the question of whether or not this kind of monetisation goes against the benefit of the consumer.
Yes it may only be cosmetic items that have no altering effect on gameplay, but when players have no overall choice as to what they actually get from loot boxes and their investment in to the game, is it so wrong for those players to debate the value of the content?- 6 years ago
I absolutely agree that this monetization tactic is predatory for many of the reasons you list. It is just excruciating in every way and I agree wholeheartedly in what you state. Until reading your post, I figured that the one saving grace of the event was that - like similar events from titles such as Overwatch and other games - the Iron Crown Packs would be given out during the event IN PLACE OF Standard Apex Packs wherever they were warranted. Level up, unlock a battle pass package etc... PLUS what I would expect are special accelerated ways to unlock packs during the event itself. Apparently however, this is NOT the case?!
In other titles that use the "special time limited event" mechanic to any viability, this is a critical element - players in Overwatch during the various Holidays, Anniversaries, or Story Events (ie Uprising) are given ways to earn the special event boxes. Furthermore, if a user does choose to buy Event Boxes during the time, they're the SAME PRICE as the standard boxes. Now I know some will make the argument that Overwatch Event Boxes don't exclusively have Epic/Legendaries, but between the far longer duration of the events, the ability for the equal-priced and replacement Event boxes to contain those Epic/Legendaries that are special event related (as well as lesser rewards that are also event related), and the fact that Event related cosmetics - including Epics/Legendaries - can be purchased for standard crafting materials during the event - I'll say its a far cry more accessible in Overwatch!
Adapting this idea to Apex Legends, would mean replacing all the standard rewards with Iron Crown Packs (which have a higher chance of higher tier Iron Crown rewards including Epics/Legendaries - This will encourage more players to play during the event! ), allowing Iron Crown rewards to be purchased for lesser amounts of Crowns and/or equal amounts of standard Crafting Materials , and extending the event in length ideally. Furthermore, the current Iron Crown Advanced Packs could also be available with the same parameters (ie Guaranteed Epic OR Legendary, + Crowns) but priced MUCH less. I'd say 200-ish Apex Tokens would be fair - costing more than the standard, but not the current exorbitant pricing. Also, Daily and Event-wide tasks should reward more opportunities for Iron Crown Advanced Packs, giving players the chance to acquire them at a reasonable pace in addition to just buying them outright.
Finally, the Bloodhound Artifact . The current state is absolutely insane, requiring it to be be purchased for an additional 3500 Apex Tokens exclusively only after you've unlocked EVERY OTHER Epic AND LEGENDARY event item. Changing the event as described above, making all the event items/boxes more accessible would help this, but it is still a massive additional cost. I would suggest that to start that all the Iron Crown Packs be given a small chance of conferring the Artifact - Standard packs having about double or triple the chance of Wraith's artifact in normal Apex Packs, and "advanced aka Epic/Legendary guaranteed packs" having double or triple the Standard Iron Crown chance. Those chances are still very small, but at least its possible. In addition, the more accessible improvements from 2-tiered Iron Crown boxes, all boxes during the event being some sort of Iron Crown , purchase of Crown items with standard crafting materials (costs more, similar to standard Epics and Legendaries) as well as Crowns (costs less), lowering the pricing of the Advanced Iron Crown Packs (and allowing buying Rare Iron Crown packs for 100 Apex Tokens) etc... will make it more accessible and encourage players to collect the whole set through both play and possibly purchase.
Ultimately, I'd suggest that the cost for the Bloodhound Artifact scale depending on how many of the Event Epics/Legendaries you've collected. Collect the whole set and you unlock it! Its 3500 Token price should be the cost if you want it without any of the other Epics/Legendaries tracked, and it decrease proportionally for each you collect.
Monetization for Iron Crown is absolutely predatory and out of wack. I have to commend Respawn for making some of the items, especially the Legendary player skins and Bloodhound Artifact , really neat looking. However, watching EA monetize it - a short 12-day event with very limited time to unlock rewards (all the cool new stuff!), astoundingly limited ways to unlock any of them through play itself, being pushed towards absolutely insane costs instead etc... all come across as incredibly predatory. It seems quite obvious EA is targeting this event near exclusively at "whales" and well-off streamers who won't hesitate to drop the required $200+ to get these exclusive rewards ; frustrating, to say the least.
Worse, not only is it bad for player experience, but I can nearly guarantee that EA would likely net far more revenue if they ran the event as I described above in a more accessible fashion. They could have structured an event where it felt tangible and accessible to unlock these great new cosmetics, inspiring more play and interest in Apex during the event, where players already having fun and feeling rewards were accessible would likely pay a bit extra to speed up their progression, grab a few favorites etc... studies have shown again and again that non-predatory mechanics can be more rewarding. For every "whale" willing to spend $200 to get it all, there are likely 100+ people willing to spend $20-50 to get it all - a much larger profit! This really needs to change as it just feels offputting. New content and game events should be welcoming and inviting, but if they're mismanaged in search of whale-level payoffs using predatory monetization. , they're losing the potential to make a much larger, universally beneficial impact instead.
Edit: I know some will talk about cosmetics being only optional and whatnot or "not pay-to-win' but that isn't really the point here. The overpricing and predatory methodology is a problem no matter what, and cosmetic content is still content - and desirable content at that; the entire market is predicated on that factor!
- 6 years ago@RanceJustice You've raised excellent points here. It was very interesting to read your response. I wholeheartedly agree with you in that EA are prioritising capitalisation over something more consumer friendly.
I've said time and time again that EA don't want to keep players happy, they just need them to stay invested.
As you rightly speculate, if things were more widely (not necessarily easily) accessible, EA would be able to better optimise their revenue through having a larger demographic who are willing to invest money into their IPs.
Warframe is an excellent example of where the developers present content, that people can purchase with premium currency and then know precisely what they're getting. Through full transparency with their consumers and arguably the single most accessible application of + time = reward for players to be able to play for exactly the in-game items they want. It's honestly surprising as to why more companies like EA don't employ them more often too.
In Warframe players don't have to spend a single penny to obtain the items they want, but they're still able to make a profit. How?
Well it's simply because people are genuinely happy to invest in the product.
I myself have purchase on multiple occasions the various prime only cosmetic packs. Why? Not because I felt pressured into needing them, but because I felt like I could actually better represent my investment in the time spend playing their game. I didn't have to, but it's one of the few times a player can know precisely how they are funding the content they want.
And so in lies beneath all the controversy in Apex Legends. People just want to be able to obtain what they actual strive for and not merely the chance to get it.
Sure, let EA charge whatever they want for the content they publish, however only when they justify the cost values they apply.
I've spent money in Apex Legends, I'm perfectly okay with admitting that.
But what I'm not okay with is how, as many of us agree on, the fact that the rewards system is fundamentally flawed.
I spent money because I wanted a legendary skin for my main character choice.
So I got myself some apex packs and began to open them. Obviously with RNG I was bound to get a lot of common items and crafting material.
So I thought, given how there are only so many items in the game, that I could reduce the loot pool by using my crafting material to buy up all the common and rare skins of my favourite legend, thereby increasing my chances for a legendary skin to drop for it.
Yet after however many packs, and there were a fair few, still nothing. But I had all the rare and common and some epic cosmetics for that one character, including skins, frames, posed and quips. So why didn't I get a legendary skin? And that's when I began to realise that despite loot box drops having random rewards, they actually don't guarantee you items based on a loot pool it real is all just drop percentages.
After a while, all apex packs would drop is common quips and crafting materials. Every single time.
I guarantee you if I went and bought more now, all I'd see given out is common items and more crafting materials.
This is why I feel so strongly about the way players don't have even decent accessibility to the loot they want to play and pay for.
All any player wants is to be able to make choices on where their investment goes.
Players aren't demanding that they want all the loot. Just the loot that matters to the, but never been able to get because of the ridiculous method which is currently in place to get it.
Which is precisely why we and so many more should make the effort to talk about the problems we're facing on a consumer level.
It's not likely ever going to be a case of making everyone happy but they could at least be given a real sense of reward after handing their money over to EA.
Sure cosmetics aren't essential and sure they have no impact on the core gameplay, but that still doesn't change the fact that the system in place that is meant to reward players for their time and money, simply doesn't do all that good of a job.
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