Rank RP is Toxic
Plain and simple rank needs to be revamped at least in platinum plus expecting people to constantly win points wise and come out positive is just a terrible experience for majority of players. And af...
Forum Discussion
@damsonwhufndthishttps://prnt.sc/1x844gx
2 KP and top 5+ will give you a lot of points (relatively speaking) in gold = 60 - 24 = 36+ which for that performance is a lot in my opinion.
In Plat accordingly, you would get 24+ which is still a lot compared to one split where I did have to rat out most of the games, and literally, my progress was +4-8 points per 20 min of "gameplay" = running around listening to my newb teammates bashing me from the underworld and evading enemies while looking at some possible 3rd party KP.
And the fun starts in Diamond why it is also very hard to rank up there because with 2 KP and top 5 here you will give only 60 - 48 = 12+ points and getting either in Diamond is considerably harder because people understand that placement matters much more as there will be only a few exceptions where you will have max KP games (for players who are not Masters+) that might mitigate damage even if you place sub TOP 10. Thus top 5 usually is zone 3+ fights between ~10 teams in it or something like that.
Sidenote! Yesterday had one of those exception days where somehow in many games only 10 squads were left before even zone 1 closed but that usually indicates something fishy which I also saw - a guy in Diamond had 17 KP (11+6) and he kept killing people even when I died and disconnected. But that does not happen very often in my experience thus I am amazed when I see so-called "warzone pros" or what not aka <100 people in higher than D4 ranks, even D4 actually would be a surprise for me in case totally new player with sub 100 level be there already - talking about efficiency.
Finally the math I think we need to pay attention here is win/loss ration and RP change.
In Gold say you have top 5 with 2 kills = 36 points, you can't lose that in one really bad game, must have a least two to negate the progress.
Platinum one top 5 2 kill game is already negated by one really bad game.
Diamond one top 5 2 kill game is giving you 1/4!!! of what one bad game will deduct from your progress.
In other words, on Diamond you must be on Top5 2 kill game pretty much every time otherwise 1 bad game automatically means 3 steps back or you now have a need to perform a very high KP/placement game that is even harder mission than TOP5 2 kill.
That is also my experience there, I remember one day when during the day when there are in my opinion less skilled players (kids) playing I gained ~400 RP in like 3-5h, took a break, resumed playing in the evening till night and lost 500+ in probably less than 3-5h. That rarely happened to me in Gold or Diamond.
@Eshshshsswhat about smurfs? at least in arenas you see plenty of them, I mean who else would use Eva8 Wraith only? it's level 25 but moves like someone who is by very least over 100 levels of experience
relatively speaking, you get games where your team pushes so fast you can't keep up, they either die, you die with them, or they kill someone and you get no assist
games where your jumpmaster decides to land in a spot where lot of people land, someone blasts you with better gun meanwhile you're trying to * your Mozambique
survival time and point varies, sometimes you get slightly more kills but die too early
sometimes you loot for 10 minutes only to become someone's pinata
in season 5 even randoms were fairly decent..
- @damsonwhufndthis I tried to google regarding how fast you can actually get to D4+ level, but I guess level is dependant on so many factors (damage, survival time, placement, kp etc.) that there is no such answer.
My solution to solve the smurffing problem:
1. Respawn has to fix their ban system - people in top ranks stream how they switch to smuff accounts e.g. I saw at a time #32 predator go into P3 lobbies (funny enough he got shot there quite many times, which must have hurt his ego, but I guess that's just a way to preserve #32 while his set squad was away)
2. Level of a player must be an unremovable info from a player's banner
3. Maybe think about introducing a cap limit to tiers e.g. you can get to P4+ only if you are level 100+, D4 if you are level 200-300, etc. - yes, this will affect some players transferring from other FPS games, at the same time I think it will "clean up" a lot of newb players from higher-ranked tiers to avoid above-mentioned issues. @Eshshshssso like the number 2 would have like a border effect you have in league?
about your first part about the streamer, streamers can get dunked on in lower ranks in online games because people can stream snipe him, basicaly like a planned coordinated fight along with 3rd party
3. how about the rank not dropping back to bronze 4 just because it's new season? like the logic in that is non existant
@damsonwhufndthisThis it not about comparing who has bigger .... and who owned whom. It's about fair play and fair punishment. If #32 predator streams a publicly available video of smurfing (he also utilized game exploits) he should be permabanned. End of story.
Yet that's not the case.
As for why he got knocked, well there are many parts of that story but I will not go into details, I just don't want to see pred #32 in Platinum lobbies, period.- Not only there are hackers, set squads with "grinders" = people that regularly play together on regular basis and thus rank faster, people that are just better, BUT there are also a lot of people with EGO problems who do not understand team dynamics, how to communicate with people thus making the situation even worse for "randoms".
E.g. Yesterday played with two guys, one ex Master, the other one like me ex multiple Diamond.
We played 4 games and lost due to the following reasons (in order of games played):
- 3rd party + no cover fire and wrong coms (called 1 hit on enemy who was using battery and recovered easily before we could attack) from ex Master
- finished 3rd, one player (ex Master) did not hear the coms and thus we ended up pushing 2v3 not 3v3
- 3rd party arrived at the worst possible time and whipped us trying to finish the 1st squad who had only 1 player alive
- miscommunication creating 1v2 instead of 3v2 situation
Then ex Master suddenly just went off saying that how can we lose 1v1 fights like that, never happens to him, he always wins 1v1 or at least does a lot of damage, then he continued saying that he actually played vs the other guy in the previous games and did kill him so he does not understand why he signed up to play with him on one team (indicating that the player lacks skill)...
We did have 1 bad game with miscommunication and at the same time 1 top 3 game in 4 attempts, yet people still go off like crazy and start comparing D*$@ not actually providing constructive feedback.
To sum up, it is not the system, it is a community and people in it and their inability to make it work that makes this environment what many call "toxic". Im fine with this hole RP system basically.
But some minor things just need to change.
If you almost kill an enemy (let's say 100shileds gone , 80hp gone, 20hp left) but then this enemy is killed by third party or managed to run longer than 20sec till he finally is killed by a mate or 3rd party , you should be rewarded for that.
Currently it is like: You build a car and someone else just fits the companys logo onto its trunk and is fully paid 4 the hole car while you get nothing.
- @Apyhs good point, assist might be earned, yet then you could extrapolate that logic further to probably whole lobby, because how would you distinguish a difference why you did so much damage? Maybe your teammates were distracting the enemy or providing support fire so you can flank and have easy shots? What is the difference between surviving the first wave of the fight and dying to the second vs 3rd party attack? Did you help 3rd party to become a 3rd party or did they help you to survive?
Fair suggestion - yes.
Possible to be implemented in the game - probably no.
P.S. car industry actually works exactly like that especially 2nd hand market - buy cheap most of the work, slap the fine-tuning and brushing up, collect all the profit 🙂 - @hayhor Dont get me wrong. I don't want to get any points post death.
I'm talking about situation you survive. I have a lot encounters where the * hits the fan. We fight an other squad and the 3rd and fourth party are joining.
It is not uncommon i have just 2 kills but 1.2 to 2k damage then. Maybe one or two assists in addition at best.
In the worst situation you are se successor of hell and come out well beaten but alive. +20 and still not enough to pay the entry, while the dead ones can at least pay the entry RP fee.
I'm completely okay not become the campion or even get into top 10 squad. And if I die in this mayham I don't deserve any points. @Apyhsthat's the name of the game and in my opinion, many people get it wrong - the first prize is 1st place not 20 kills and top 10 which still in higher ranked will give you minimum amount of positive RP.
That's why pros play in a system where placement is much higher valued than kills and indeed finish with 2-5 kills and 2k damage and are totally fine with that.
But yeah that's boring sh for most of the people in the community I got that by this time after 7 month in the game - go 4k 20bomb and 0 brain <- if only there would be a badge for it :D- @Eshshshss But the 1st price is less payed than 20 kills. so it is a worse system. Thats my opinion.
If someone gets 100RP by beeing involved in 10 Kills but exits the match placed 8th,9th,10th
it should be less valueable than beeing placed 4th with just 2 kills.
Isnt this what you just said ? Placement > Killcount
Maybe RP rewards 4 kills just schould be reduced to make a higher placement way more valuable. The point of the game itself is 1st place I will agree. The point of ranked play is to rank up. The game is team based so communication (however you do it) is highly important as well as the ability to play as a team.
I do believe that changes to ranked play need to be made. Placement (RP) should be worth more than kills (RP). Revives and Re-Spawns should be awarded RP as well. With that in mind maybe an adjustment to my suggestion previously in this thread as a possible solution is mandated.
1. Remove the placement multiplier for kills.
2. Keep placement RP award as is.
3. Award 5 RP for each kill.
4. Award 2 RP for each assist .
5. Award 2 RP for each revive.
6. Award 5 RP for each re-spawn.
7. RP for kills and assists capped at 30 RP per game.
8. RP for revive or re-spawn capped at 20 RP per game.
9. keep the ranked entry cost the same or make them slightly more expensive seeing as points could now be gained for revive/re-spawning also.
10. Remove rank protection.
@hayhoryes, I have this thing called "perception" that many lack
- @Apyhs based on my math skills (might be tempered given I just came back from workout, lack of glucose in the blood you know), here is what I came up with: https://prnt.sc/1xe99yc
In the screenshot you see MAX KP/Assist game RP per placement.
If we compare it with 2 kill (or any other combination of 2 KP) and 4th place it gives you 2*15+40= 70 RP which is worse result as soon as a max KP person finishes 10th or above.
The question I ask to myself is - what is easier for me:
a) go to 4th place without being involved in many fights = usual scenario here would be going for early KP from the drop and then just camp till the last zone.
b) get max KP = 6 points till top 10, meaning that I have to be involved in two, probably more like three or four fights before 10 teams die.
Simple math and you get 1 fight with a theoretical 50/50 chance on a drop to get early KP vs. two up to four fights in a fast(-er) sequence.
For me option A is more viable.
Also I keep in mind that 2 KP 3rd place will give me already 2*20+40 = 80 RP, 2nd accordingly 100 and 1st 150 points which respectively would be worse only if MAX KP game would end in TOP 8, TOP 6, TOP 3.
From this info my main conclusion is that if I get a chance of early and many KP I would aim for top 8 and top 6, maybe getting into some "extra" fight because if say I get 3 KP from the drop getting TOP 3 / 2 / 1 is probably harder than getting extra 3 KP from fights.
Yet if I don't get early KP, then for me pushing my luck later in a game and hope to get TOP 6 or TOP 3 place does not sound worth it, I rather settle for camping to the last ring and hope to get KP there and TOP 3 / 2 / 1 accordingly.
Finally on my level I am happy to have 2+ KP game in Diamond so all the theories about Max KP most of the time are not viable for me, I don't even focus on that as when I do I usually end up <15th place with <2 KP 🙂
For the person who maybe is better at shooting than reading rotations, other scenario would be more viable...
As for the system I don't see an issue in it besides the fact that you get only 1 assist and 1 kill per team, as mentioned earlier I would introduce 1 kill and 2 assists to reward all players in the team given they were alive a the point of enemy kill (including being knocked). - @Asmodeus566 as people said before respawns and revives are a slippery slope as it is quite easy to farm that - basically a teammate can just run in the open at the end the fight when people know that other team is basically dead.
Sure kills can and are farmed but there you depend on enemy team's ability to recover the banner and respawn the person that is not in your hands.
In case of revive and respawn all the cards would be in your team's hands so to say. Same like farming damage - you can all just agree to stop shooting before enemy recovers and then continue your farm.
As for the system it already rewards placement more than killpoints, the issue arise only because of matchmaking and/or player's focus on getting the kills - we all have seen that crazy player who goes into finishing a knocked down player in 1v1 situation just because he knows that it will be an easier KP vs going into 1v1. - @Eshshshss I think a big issue people have is they think they need the kp right away. You can get it without hot dropping. And if you only get 4 and get 2nd you still get plenty of points. Surely more than dead with 1 knock in 20th place, which people do over and over and over.
KP should be replaced by what I call "Unanswered Damage", which is calculated by the amount of damage done on a killed enemy. Any healing done reduces unanswered damage by the amount healed, and if someone damages a player before another does, the first person's damage is "healed" first (a.k.a "first in, first out"). Reduces the downsides of raw kills/assists (little worth in kill stealing, could reduce third partying, and no garbage assists are credited). The amount of Unanswered Damage earned during a match determines how much RP you get, in addition to maybe other much smaller ways to get RP in order to smooth out any flaws that Unanswered Damage inherently has.
Might make sense to multiply the unanswered damage rank points by some number in the event that the squad completely dies. This would discourage farming if you can tie that multiplier somehow to the average number of kills that a team suffers before elimination so that it isn't worth it to farm rather than wipe.
Seeing as I didn't address the placement rank points, this would also act as that (killing a squad changes your placement implicitly, so you are indirectly rewarded for placement) but with the benefit that campers, who don't finish squads, get substantially less RP.
And to address Hayhor's point about killing people immediately, unanswered damage would be less for immediate kills. I think this is good, because in my experience it is easier to rank when you take advantage of people's lower health vs reaction time at the beginning of the game.
Actually there would be, because farming damage is useless unless you kill them as well, so fewer charge rifles would be used 😏
- @3enilly tell that to people whose life goal is to get 4k badge :D
I personally would even be ok with this stat - damage done - being removed from the game, I literally couldn't care less about it given the current system of the game as well as the community's focus/values:
a) I have had a game where i did 2! damage and got a kill
b) I have had people with 0 kills and 1500+ damage telling me how bad I am
c) I see people with 4k+ damage and 5 kills flexing
It is just pointless stats given how subjective these figures are at the moment and how little they have in common with players' skill, ability to win.
