The new drop system in ranked sucks

Hey 5cczyyyn121w​,

You're certainly not alone in your thoughts about this, though it's not entirely accurate to say nobody asked for this or wants it. There have absolutely been people asking for ranked to look more like ALGS for quite some time, specifically the drop aspect.

It's more than fine not to like the new system yourself, but there are people on the other end of the spectrum that do enjoy this as well. That said of course, more than happy to pass along your feedback and concerns here as I've seen many, many opinions on both sides of this to varying degrees.

Is your main issue that you sometimes don't find anyone to fight for a while? Does that change at all when you're selected to have a more central drop point instead of one of the POIs at the edge of the map? Noticing this more on any particular map?

Every player I have talked about this with in my games said they don't like it. I am pretty sure that the large majority does not enjoy looting for 10 minutes or having to run across the entire map to than die in the ring. People that want to rat and drop safe can still do that on free choice drops, there is no one stopping them. But people who want to drop hot can not if drops are preset.

It doesn't matter if a drop is central or not but rather how the drops are located to others. Some can easily invade others, some not and some are right before the edge of the map and are prone to getting sandwiched by two to three teams. Apex is a fast-paced action shooter and the gameplay should reflect that. I don't want to loot for 10 minutes, encouraging players that shoo away from PvP to rat even more just to get dropped in the first 5 seconds of the fight. Don't get me wrong - I'm not telling anybody how they want to enjoy the game and I encourage teams that want to drop far away from everyone to do that if that's what they want, but I don't enjoy that and I would also like nobody to force me to do so. I play Apex because I am looking for gameplay I enjoy, not because I want to farm all day and I'd rather die on a hot drop with a bad team and move on than loot forever and than die in the first fight. Both dropping safe and hot can be viable strategies for ranked and players should be free to choose what they want and not what you want them to do.

If you don't believe me that most people do not want this, run a poll and you will see.

Thanks 5cczyyyn121w​!
 
It gets really tricky when we get to anecdotes and making claims on behalf of everyone else, because then we're just trading stories about people that do or do not like the system. If I pull up threads of people enjoying it, that doesn't invalidate the feedback from those that don't, right? The feedback's much more meaningful when it's just your own personal experiences with the system.

There are absolutely other metrics and ways to gauge how much people are engaging with this mode or enjoying it in general, but for our purposes here on the forums, the specific personal points you've made are by far the most valuable thing for us to pass along.

From my experience there are always a couple teams nearby at drop, so games actually going 10 minutes without a fight have been exceedingly rare, which is why I was wondering what situations you've been seeing that in. Thanks for the added details!

What I'm gathering here is that you personally prefer to (at least have the option to) hot drop so you can get into a fight pretty much immediately, at least knowing there are enemies looting the same POI. There's a huge difference between taking 2 minutes and having space to loot semi-securely before taking a fight versus just having to pick up the first weapon you see because someone's hot on your tail.

Even with the space between those two situations, I'd still consider both of those the complete other end of the spectrum from the actual 10 minute "looting simulator" games, completely understandable.

People that want to rat and drop safe can still do that on free choice drops, there is no one stopping them.

Out of curiosity, how did you feel about having teammates split off at drop instead of sticking with the team? Sure, someone that wanted to drop safe didn't have to follow their team into a hot drop. The choice may have been there, but in my experience it was usually a false choice and your match was essentially over in those situations. That also doesn't feel great, so ideally there's a middle ground.

Both dropping safe and hot can be viable strategies for ranked and players should be free to choose what they want and not what you want them to do.

Great way to sum it up. Thanks for the feedback and chat!

First let me start by saying that I agree with you about preset drops being a bad idea. I don't play a lot of ranked to begin with, but once in a while I'll give it a go. Usually when they've made some controversial change. Like this season. And I too hate it. But EA_Mako​ is right to point out that many people have seen this in ALGS and asked for it in the game. I'm still trying to wrap my mind around whether it's a specific type of player who likes it or a different specific type who hates it, but that's all beside the point. I get that the people in favor of it like the more controlled pacing and the fact that it makes it easier for the team to stick together. Or harder for them to wander apart. But many an autocrat has used the argument that things will be better for more if they wrest choice from the individual. In some rare cases that may even be true. What is always true is that if a player has choice and makes a bad one then that's on him and no one else. If an autocrat takes my choice away and makes it for me... and makes a bad one then I just leave and go find somewhere else to exercise my free will. In this case, pubs and Wildcard. So no real loss to the developer. But there's still a principle involved. It's still a bad idea. And unfortunately this is an example of a bad idea that has a big impact. As does the squad elimination mechanic in Wildcard (and previously in other LTMs). These two changes are, in my best guess, something you will see adopted into the main game across the board over time. Probably within the next few seasons. They've been flirting with these changes too hard for too long to have them not become the norm. And that, imo, is bad for the game. On both points.

Second:

"Apex is a fast-paced action shooter and the gameplay should reflect that."

I couldn't let that go without two cents. Apex is not definitively a fast-paced action shooter. It's a shooter that uses battle royale mechanics as its primary game mode. And the beauty of battle royale, imo, is that the pacing is variable depending on a lot of different factors, but primarily position, timer, and the discretion of the individual player. In fact, a lot of players would argue, as you have, that the game is too slow and needs help to speed it up. To which I would reply, "Please go play mixtape or Wildcard, and leave battle royale to the patient."  So many people in this game seem to feel entitled to a certain number of engagements per minute and/or a guarantee that they can engage when and where they want without interference from third parties. And the truth is that neither of these things is a feature of battle royale. A match MIGHT be perfectly paced, but more often than not it isn't. And I'm not sure you can ask for faster pacing without crossing the "less third partying" crowd. For whom this change was (mistakenly) made.

I guess where I'm going with this is: Ask for the game to be any way you would like it to be, but be careful which arguments you marshal behind your opinion. Sometimes, as in this case, they make the argument in favor of the opposite opinion as well.

It gets really tricky when we get to anecdotes and making claims on behalf of everyone else, because then we're just trading stories about people that do or do not like the system. If I pull up threads of people enjoying it, that doesn't invalidate the feedback from those that don't, right?

Hence I said, make a poll and you will see because I am very, very sure that the majority does not enjoy this change. Even the loot spots in its self are not properly balanced. There is some spots which straight off just don't have a lot of stuff but force you into long range battles as soon as you go out of the POI for example the cenote cave on Storm Point where just 95% of the player base does not want to land.

Out of curiosity, how did you feel about having teammates split off at drop instead of sticking with the team?

Obviously no one likes that, but if I'm in a group with two randoms or two premades and I am not the jump master than I kind of also need to respect the choice. If not than I will most likely have to deal with another minus for the round. I'd rather have a person splitting off once in a while because often that does not even indicate that the person solely doesn't like the spot or doesn't want to hot drop but rather that they are just annoyed by their previous teams and therefore just want things to have it their way. So yes, I'd still prefer that instead of having drops randomly assigned.

Apex is not definitively a fast-paced action shooter. It's a shooter that uses battle royale mechanics as its primary game mode.

I'd disagree, you can camp in every shooter for kills regardless if it's fast, slow or in between. In general the fights in Apex are very fast compared to other games and especially competitive shooters.

Even with the space between those two situations, I'd still consider both of those the complete other end of the spectrum from the actual 10 minute "looting simulator" games.

Let's say you are dropping at North Pad, you loot the spot that's 2-3 minutes gone, your team mate kills a flier and runs back and forth to the box easily 2 minutes gone, you try to go push the wall but the team decided to rotate in another direction 1-2 minutes gone, you push through the wall your team keeps looting another 2-3 minutes gone, than you push south of the wall and make a scan that's another minute gone. Worst case you might even scan at the end of the route and find the next team busy with another south of Command Center. This all assumes that you all have good routes, make efficient paths, your team does not loot the other camp south east of North Pad and so on. Whether it be 10 minutes, 8 minutes or 12 minutes does not matter. In my humble opinion it's too long and this scenario is not that far off the spectrum as you might think.

5cczyyyn121w​
Polls aren't currently available on the forums themselves unfortunately, but in terms of a more wide-reaching poll of the playerbase, that's what I was referring to with this section.

There are absolutely other metrics and ways to gauge how much people are engaging with this mode or enjoying it in general, but for our purposes here on the forums, the specific personal points you've made are by far the most valuable thing for us to pass along.

This is a great and completely fair point. It's going to happen from time to time and we've all been there, but you do still have some agency of your own in that case and you'll be jumpmaster regularly enough (or eternally in my case, somehow) to keep things balanced in terms of how hot you like your drops.

Obviously no one likes that, but if I'm in a group with two randoms or two premades and I am not the jump master than I kind of also need to respect the choice. If not than I will most likely have to deal with another minus for the round. I'd rather have a person splitting off once in a while because often that does not even indicate that the person solely doesn't like the spot or doesn't want to hot drop but rather that they are just annoyed by their previous teams and therefore just want things to have it their way. So yes, I'd still prefer that instead of having drops randomly assigned.

Calling out specific POIs like Cenote Cave that are pretty lackluster to land at is also helpful, especially when it seems to be a matter of not enough loot versus just being an edge POI when the ring happens to close on the opposite side of the map. The edge POIs can absolutely be pretty rough situations regardless of the loot or enemy encounters, but feedback on the actual POIs and painpoints like this is super helpful, thanks again for the discussion.

"I'd disagree, you can camp in every shooter for kills regardless if it's fast, slow or in between. In general the fights in Apex are very fast compared to other games and especially competitive shooters."

Now I'm not sure if we're using the word "fast" to talk about ttks and squad wipes, or whether we're talking, as I was, about the overall pacing of a match. To me the whole point of an 18 minute match played out on a gigantic map is that you can literally choose your own pace-of-play. As opposed to a round of slayer in Halo where, with 8 people on a map the size of a postage stamp, camping is never an option.

I get that you like a fast-paced match, but I'm not sure that any battle royale game mode is the place where you can even expect it, much less demand it.

"Obviously no one likes that, but if I'm in a group with two randoms or two premades and I am not the jump master than I kind of also need to respect the choice. If not than I will most likely have to deal with another minus for the round. I'd rather have a person splitting off once in a while because often that does not even indicate that the person solely doesn't like the spot or doesn't want to hot drop but rather that they are just annoyed by their previous teams and therefore just want things to have it their way. So yes, I'd still prefer that instead of having drops randomly assigned."

Well said.

To determine rather the new changes are better or not the best source to use is the "Apex Ranked Distribution Chart" for this season compared to others. In all the previous seasons we saw spikes at Tier 4 ranks, specifically Platinum and Diamond. The random POI draft in Ranked has resulted in a "bell curve".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution

https://apexlegendsstatus.com/game-stats/ranked-distribution

According to the data this Ranked season has seen a major improvement in competitive integrity. Platinum rank is the new Diamond rank regarding "difficulty". Players can't "easily" solo queue to Diamond 4 anymore because it's much harder to rat. I've personally solo queued to Diamond 4 several times before. Some players who solo queued to Diamond 4 previously would stop playing at that point. This situation "might be" occurring with Platinum 3 now. I think for this reason players are having a hard time accepting the competitive gameplay and their "true" rank. Along with the lack of freewill to choose your own POI. 

I disagree that the Ranked changes should be reverted based on the factual evidence above. If players still want to solo queue and play "erratically" there are other options within the game itself, such as Unranked or Wildcard. A Ranked mode with no competitive direction is not what we should be asking for. This leads to sabotaging and toxicity, in some cases.   

I've read some recent posts and I'm seeing the same suggestions. Players continue to ask for a solo queue only Ranked, duo queue only Ranked, and now to revert the POI draft so they can land their solo queue teammates "anywhere" with no communication most times. I just don't think these are the correct solutions. 

In my humble opinion, the only thing that can help Ranked now is a "Stay with Team" feature similar to Fortnite and Warzone. I played public matches in Warzone to unlock their Ranked mode. Unfortunately, the devs over there decided not to include the "Stay with Team" feature for Ranked and some players are disgruntled about that.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CODWarzone/comments/1c83fo0/why_can_we_not_find_a_party_or_choose_to_stay/

The players who are enjoying the "Stay with Team" feature in Warzone were ecstatic when it was added 4 years ago. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/CODWarzone/comments/o1axnu/suggestion_add_a_play_again_with_team_option_to/

I think this solution is worth exploring. It could really help with "securing" teammates before the next match. I played a couple days ago and won two matches back-to-back with different solo queue teams. It would have been nice to lock-in with one of those teams. I'm personally not interested in being friends, micing up, etc., but I'll "run it back with you", even if we didn't place high. Similar to when you go to a park for recreation and play basketball or something.

The current "bell curve" is too inflated in Platinum tier. I think the "Stay with Team" feature can fix this and also help players to fluctuate more within Platinum and give more solo queue players a path to Diamond, or higher (without ratting or being a one-man army). This solution can potentially help populate higher tier lobbies more and reduce queue times. Additionally, since Warzone doesn't have the "Stay with Team" feature for their Ranked mode this still leaves the door open for Respawn to make the right decision. I'm not sure why we want noncompetitive teams in Ranked to compete against stacked (competitive) teams, especially in higher ranks. 

I come in peace. :-) I hope everyone is having a great weekend. I honestly don't care about this stuff deeply. Sometimes I just notice some glaring issues with the game. I'm just a millennial trying to help the young people. I've literally been gaming since Nintendo. I just don't understand the current state of gaming. We don't care about the "wow factor" and "synergy" enough. I love BR. I've played every BR to release since 2018. It's my favorite game mode of all times, thus far. On Playstation we didn't have PUBG back in 2017 and I didn't take to Fortnite. In 2018 H1Z1 came out. Then Blackout came out behind a paywall. Blackout unfortunately had "friendly fire" which made playing the game more difficult than it needed to be. The devs defended their decision, at the time, and basically told the community not to solo queue. Obviously, this was the wrong direction, and the friendly fire mechanic was not reintroduced in Warzone. One day, I got on Blackout to play with some friends I had met, and they immediately told me "Go Download Apex Legends Right Now". The game had only been out a couple of hours, or less. I was stuck like chuck with this game the moment I played. Plus, I loved TF2, OMG. Played the beta as soon as it was available. We didn't have TF1 on PS, and that hurt the franchise. Let's get better about how games should operate for "everybody", because in today's world we're choosing to be divided for petty reasons. 

First, very good post.

BUT:

"In all the previous seasons we saw spikes at Tier 4 ranks, specifically Platinum and Diamond. The random POI draft in Ranked has resulted in a "bell curve"."

I'm not completely convinced that the fixed drops are the cause of the more uniform curve. Correlation, not causation, as they say. I might be more amenable to the idea if it stays this way throughout the entire season. But maybe not even then. Have to wait and see.

Not to mention that a mis-shaped curve is not necessarily the result of the way players play the game. It's more likely the result of the way the developer measures players playing the game. Two entirely different things.

"I think for this reason players are having a hard time accepting the competitive gameplay and their "true" rank. Along with the lack of freewill to choose your own POI. "

I agree wholeheartedly that most players do not want to hear that their true rank is not as high as they thought it was. Or as high as they think they "deserve" or however it is they think the game has challenged their entitlement. On the other hand, hard stuck at platinum or hard stuck at diamond - who really cares? You're not going to ALGS either way. And you're not gonna get a raise at work or a hotter girlfriend or a faster car or whatever else it is that children think is important. But what IS important, imo, and no surprise if you've heard me rant on this before... is Free Will. I give that up so that other players can allow the developer to herd them like sheep from one two-team engagement to the next as if this game isn't really multi-team at all. It's as if they want it to be bracketed. "Guardrails for morons" is what I'd call it no matter whether it's producing the desired behaviors or not. Which brings us to the question of "desirable to who?"

What this all ultimately boils down to is that "serious" solo queue players want "erratic" solo queue players to stop being erratic and start getting serious. And they are more than willing to allow the developer to lobotomize the erratics in order to get what they want in a teammate. Rather than expecting them to get a friend list and use it. We can certainly agree that the dev has a long way to go on the subject of player engagement tools, most notably "stay with team." But forcing conformity on specific behaviors isn't just a weak substitute for team-building, it's actively corrosive to the experience for a lot of players. That said, you are 100% right that these players can find relief in pubs or Wildcard. But for how long? Mark my words (September 14th, 2025), a year from now, possibly less, this entire game will have shifted to preset drops and unlimited respawns until the entire squad is wiped.

More dumbing down the game for players who need their hand held at all times. If that's how we get a smooth curve and a higher "fun" quotient then so be it, but I reserve the right to denigrate players for their laziness and the developer for indulging them.

FYI - I hit reply to early and didn't finish the post. It's finished now. 

Thank you and I appreciate the reply. 

I'm not a guru on this stuff so I'm just stating what it looks like. Thordan Smash, a popular Apex content creator, mentioned the "bell curve" in one of his videos regarding Ranked. Ranked is setup in splits and Split 1 will be over in 2 days. So those are the results for Split 1. 

I'm glad we agree on some things. Where we differ is about "free will" within competitive game modes. I remember playing an older COD game that had Ranked. In the Ranked mode certain guns and perks were removed. The mode also had different rules. I remember playing a couple of games and getting stomped "hard". Instead of continuing to play Ranked I went back to Pubs. I wasn't going to attempt to change things for the Ranked players who enjoy that. I just moved on to another game mode that better suited my needs. It's that simple. I had the "freedom" to play another game mode. This scenario also applies to Ranked players who play Pubs. It's just as wrong for a Ranked player to want "every" game mode to be competitive. 

In regards to using the friends list. This argument is overused and overstated. I've been playing since Day 1. The notion that I can keep up (or try to keep up) with anybody outside of my family for extended periods of time is not realistic. Additionally, it's been times where I'm actively utilizing my friends list, but people are already in-game, already have a team, may not be on at the same time, etc. We are ALL solo queuers in some way or at some point. The only people I've observed who don't solo queue are the top tier players in our community. 

Lastly, I agree with your points as well. Let's all just do what we want, right? That's just not reality. We need guardrails in every aspect of society because humanity enjoys being unpredictable, at times. But we can't live and progress with so much uncertainty. For example, since I've been on the forum I've had several of my posts removed and I've been checked by the mods, more than once. Should I be mad because I can't type what I want on the forum? Maybe. At the end of the day EA has TOS and we have to follow that or risk being banned. I don't like guardrails either, but we have to have them so we can be and do better individually, which helps us collectively.