Re: About this aim assist

@Eshshshss Watching your Eva-8 video some of those shots were bad some looked like clear hits that the game robbed you of so I dunno man. In your first video that was likely a controller player yeah. I wouldn't judge the accuracy of players on one system by the standards of another as M/KB is clearly different from controller.

I'm growing increasingly curious of what the typical PC player's aim looks like. When the player in your video fought close range his opponent didn't move much so not much tracking was needed. Aim assist likely helped there but very little. Do you think his aim should have been worse up close since he missed most of his shots at a distance? How bad is M/KB at close range combat to make you think he should have missed at point blank? I wonder how much of the "Aim assist is OP at close range" and "M/KB is better at range" arguments are true.

@heme725I personally see a difference most of the time, controller players have this jittery movement, sometimes it feels/looks like they can turn only at 90 degrees 🙂
Mouse and keyboard, in my opinion, is much smoother and I guess that's the basis why AA exists on the controller.

Regarding the video - I will be honest here, this player's tracking and decision-making at times are not only average but below that.

Also, people usually play their best guns and clearly, the guy's loadout is not "poor" thus I assume he did pick to run Flatline and R99 rather than playing them because those were the only top guns available. Yet he still misses so much with Flatline = for me an indication of his abilities when AA is not there.

Finally, check two situations - when he tries to kill Pathfinder from point-blank range and when he shoots at Bangalore.
On Pathfinder his aim is all over the place to say the least even though the distance is close to 0 = dude clearly panicked and overshot aiming with his controller same as he did in most cases with Flatline in the distance.
Yet on Bangalore cursor keep going back to the target multiple times.

As for your rhetorical question about what is best where - from my experience at close range controller is superior as I personally play on very low sense (0.2 sense with 3900 dpi) and I am working on my close range fights as I usually overshoot target by ~0.5cm (measured on my 31.5" screen) while being in my opinion quite good in midrange fights.

Overall though I would rank input modes like this:
1. M&K with AA - xim and stuff 🙂
2. M&K without AA
3. Controller with AA
4. Controller without AA

And based on the above I see that frustration about cross-play an AA availability on controller comes from the fact that it is very annoying to have a fight like this - where you clearly dominate mid-range game (in video example where dude misses most of his shots with Flatline) and then suddenly such player is "in your face" and beams you. Basically flipping a switch and going from Silver/Gold to Diamond in a moment so to say. Be it Eva, Wingman or full clip of automatic weapons.

@Eshshshss Yeah it's pretty obvious when you're looking at a console player based on how they/we move. I can't judge the player's decision making much since this looks like a duo's match with no stakes. A lot of his play could just be him being aggressive in a game with no stakes. I'm more interested in your critique of his poor midrange accuracy since it might be unfair to judge a player's ability by the standards set using another input device.

When crossplay was first mention both sides had their issues with it. Console players felt that M/KB was easier/more effective at landing distant shots and PC players complained about aim assist being introduced to their games. All players I've played against are FAR better at close range than long range so I assumed it would be the same for PC. It's only recently occurred to me that PC may struggle a bit more up close than controller due to the difference of Aim assist. This brings a simple question to mind.

"If the average M/KB player has better accuracy at range than the one in your video (although he was clearly under pressure from other squads in the area) how do the two compare at close range?" Bear in mind that the player in your video did not panic when the Path showed up but expected him. Even then his aim drifted from low and to the right (Path's feet), up and to the left (past Path's head) and back to the right of Path's head. Aim assist helps a player most when it comes to overcorrecting their aim and the player in your video still screwed up despite hearing the Path coming. So all that really makes me want to know the differences between the systems in combat instead of all this "M/KB is easier" or "Controllers have aimbot" nonsense.

If my system is easier I'll own it but I'm not a fan of lies.

Btw eliminating crossplay wouldn't effect console lobbies at all since you're basically stealing players from our player base for yours. You may not want them there but if anything they're boosting your lobby numbers.

@heme725 

Replies

Decision making - if a person tosses 3+ grenades into the unknown that already shows his game IQ in my opinion. Not to mention randomly ducking under the stairs during an ongoing fight or mentioned case of dropping down from high just to then jetpack (being sitting duck) up moments later.

Did he panic - 100% sure or he is just a bit how to put it...not game smart. The same applies to Pathfinder - I am quite sure he was not expecting him to be really in a corner thus the overshooting with the aim, players who are confident and can use audio queues would pre-aim corner even before peaking it no matter the input device.

Judging player's ability - that was not the point of my post or video. The point was that a clearly not great player is a kill leader + having a lot of kills (compared to average game) just because of potentially having a controller and killing people exquisitely in close rage (aim assist) territory.

Comparison of input vs fight distance - there are a lot of variables and possible cases. But I would narrow it down to not what makes a good player better but what makes a bad player good. And in this case would gravitate towards controller with Aim assist and tactics of pushing into people's faces being an easier skill to master for a bad player vs actually finding a good sensitivity on a mouse, adjusting seating position, making sure mousepad does not have any sticky or dirty spots, etc.

Player base - I don't have stats, but if you say so I will believe you. Either case I would then be ok with lack of player base, longer waiting time vs playing in a controller player lobby given aim assist would be on for them.

Overall comment about aim assist - the whole argument point here is because Respawn tried to make up disadvantages of the controller via introducing aim assist and calling it "even ground" even though the situation is more like if we use comparison in cars where a dragster would destroy agile car in a straight line while not being even close to it in a regular racing track with corners.

In my opinion, there should be no software assistance BUILT INTO A GAME to compensate the hardware gap. Otherwise why we don't lock this game to 720p, 60 FPS, 400 or less DPI, 100 hz pooling rate, limit number of input buttons for a mouse, set the sound to be at a standard of PC beeper level, disable voice chat etc. <- because all of these are things that:

a) are hardware related

b) cost money

c) actually makes you a better player without improving your skill per se

Yet for some reason (well a well-known reason at this point to most who know how business works) a controller is an exceptional hardware... well then people should not be surprised when as special strike packs, xims and what else not comes around.

@Eshshshss Decision making - It's a pub game so I'm not judging too harshly. Some players waste resources while testing new tactics or trying to make an ambitious read while not expecting much from it. There was a firefight happening in the area and he guess some players might break off towards that location to escape. If you're not criticizing his waste of resources but the read he made at the time then that may be fair since he was clearly wrong about how the players moved.

Did he panic - No. Depending on the situations players (on console at least) may pre-aim by aiming down the sight at a specific spot or by centering their screen on where the player will be. You ADS when the player can't or won't be able to move before you melt them. You center the screen so that you're able to react to however your opponent will move or if you only know the rough spot they'll appear. The player went from a full sprint to spinning around and centering his screen on where the Path would come from. He SHOULD have centered his screen a little to the right and that lead to him overcompensating for Path's actual position but he clearly heard Path coming.

Judging player ability - Weak lobby. As bad as you think that player is most of the players he fought were undeniably worse. They landed few shots on the Valk despite him exposing himself frequently. The Path stupidly pushed up a zipline against a player he didn't know was broken (but saw running away) when he easily had better approaches with his grapple. Then there was the player that chose to gain the high ground and heal in an exposed area close to where he saw and heard Valkyrie flee to. Valk didn't even deserve a kill there that was a freebie. Just a good game in a weak lobby that had nothing to do with Aim Assist.

Comparison of input vs fight distance - You're not really naming anything here. Indirectly calling Aim Assist a crutch for bad players while mentioning basic things that all gamers have to deal with. PC players certainly have to optimize their system more than a plug and play Console player but adjusting your chair, lighting, sensitivity, and cleaning your controller are basic steps if you want to compete.

Player base - Don't have the stats either so I could be wrong but it's just logic. No PC players in console lobbies but console players in PC lobbies means you're taking players from us. Not taking a shot here this is just an assumption.

Overall comment about aim assist - This one confused me. Are you saying they're adjusting the already existing Aim Assist to give console players a boost against PC. I'd be strongly against this if it's true and side with you here. Whether it's "fair" or not I don't want the game giving me a boost just because I'm losing. Separate my lobbies or let me take my L with everyone else.

If you're implying Aim Assist exists to give controller players a chance against PC that's just laughable. I didn't look into it then but I believe Aim assist existed way back when playing GoldenEye on the Nintendo 64 in the 90's. I'm going off of memory here but so long as you hip-fired the game would help you track enemies a bit. Aim assist seems to exist to make it easier to aim with joysticks but other games have boosted it to help weaker players achieve success.

@heme725 @hayhor @RevMainPls - I am not talking in extremes = saying that only Aim assist helped him. The point of the video was to emphasize how an average/bad player with what seems to be a controller can be a kill leader in a lobby partly (we can only assume how much) thanks to aim assist.

Video had to highlight how bad the player is in distance fights and how the situation changes in a close range.

Was the lobby bad/average - yes as most pubs are

Is there a chance he was just lucky getting the kills - yes, even though he onemagged me from R99 face first, that was no luck, that was just me missing shots and him tracking 🙂

Again the point related to this thread's topic I wanted to make and will restate from my previous post - in my opinion, controller is the easiest way to make a bad player better in this game, rest is debatable, an option to opt-out of crossplay should be there so that PC players can play on their "even" grounds.

@heme725- about Respawn's politics regarding aim assist https://www.nme.com/news/gaming-news/respawn-is-evaluating-the-power-of-aim-assist-in-apex-legends-3035879 or google any other result with keywords like "respwan on aim assist". There are plenty of sources telling it outright that that's the way game developers see evening up the ground for the players in the community or you can name it any other way, the basic fact is - everyone knows controller players can't compete with similarly skilled M&K yet they will not let it be so (discrimination of controller player or what not) so they introduce aim assist into the game's code which is now being exploited left and right by hackers. Job well done, everyone's happy!

@Eshshshss Well first of all I want to apologize if I mocked you since I didnt know you were in the video. I feel bad. Secondly the video showed me that he has a very average skill level (on console) and a bit above average (on console) decision making despite making 2 questionable plays. 

You cant determine a players ability off of one fame but I'd wager he's a typical Platinum player. Decent but fairly average.

The issue for me is that I'm clueless of what a M/KB player can do so showing me average controller gameplay with no comparison won't shos me how unbalanced it is. Aim assist gives a bit of advantage up close but how much? Don't know without seeing clips of M/KB close range combat to compare.

If they adjust the Aim assist then I really don't care but it was never added to help controller compete with PC. Controller has always had AA crossplay or not.

I do support separating the systems but there might be a good reason why they won't.