Re: Getting shot through walls

@hayhorA huge problem with Apex Lag Compensation is that if the server doesnt update the position to your opponent, you might be moving but for them you act as a sitting duck , that why a lot of people think they got aimbotted but in fact the fricken server didnt do his job well. I believe they dont even have smth like backwards reconcilliation , bcs that would def. mess with people playing on servers >120ms ping.

i also have the strong feeling that the netcode doesnt transmit anything while your are not moving at all.
After a certain amount of time you get practically invisible. Otherwise i cannot explain me sitting out in the open and enemies walking all over me as if im thin air.
This happen more than once to me and i also saw plenty of videoclips showing similar situations.

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@hayhor wrote:
@r1ggedgameYeah I'm not saying it's a good thing. But it's a thing and it's not just an Apex thing. Game companies have figured out that getting people games all over the world means they can play anytime with anyone. And that means more than any competitive thing does to the growth and size of a game playerbase.

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Lag compensation has pretty much always been a thing. It’s necessary with online gaming, and I don’t think shooters would be playable without it. So that’s not really the issue.

The problem I have with it, is how it’s tuned. Like most things in games, it can be tweaked in numerous ways. Developers typically give themselves a bunch of dials to tune their game. It’s not just an on or off variable. So the problem is when you’re too generous with how Much Lag compensation someone is given. After a certain threshold, you should receive exponentially less compensation. Over a100ms of latency, you should start getting penalized. 

Keep in mind connections fluctuate constantly. So lag comp has to keep up with that as well. Then factor in all that with 50ms updates to the server. Average reaction times are about 250ms for gamers. Some are faster, but definitely not the norm. 

I can’t tell you how many times someone was standing completely still, my bullet goes through them, then they move afterwards, and received zero damage. 

@RaginSamLag Compensation hasnt been always a thing, it came around 10 years after the first networked fps games (i dont count in MidiMaze, so i start with IP enabled Doom ...) hit the shelves and only for Instagib, took them quite some time to refine it for projectiles.

Ofc its an issue , especially the Apex one is prone for some weird stuff.
In other shooters every projectile has its own packet, Apex bundles info in larger packets (lets say 5 bullets),this has partly to do with their 20 Tick Servers.
One of those packets get lost ... literally 5 hits (instead of one) likely miss !
Also Apex doesnt seem to rely on a full backwards reconcilliation, like most other "unlagged" shooters do and go somewhat straight client side hitdetection without a lot of validation serverside.
The Backwards reconcilliation normally has a range to work "flawless" (most of the time up to 120ms), but that 120ms would technically forbid asian players to make use of the "unlagged" Euro Servers.
Relying on pure clientside hitdetection /prediction without any deeper validation is very open for exploitation.

In your example there is now 2 possibilities :
1) Your Packet with 5 bullets got lost, hence a lot of "noregs"
or
2) The Prediction in your client had way too old data to work with and predicted the wrong playermovements , so the position of your enemy on your screen was "false" (with false i mean, your client, the server and the opponent were "desynced") all along, thats why you "missed".

@reconzerohttps://gabrielgambetta.com/client-side-prediction-server-reconciliation.html
a bit more "in depth"
yea and you are right, the internet isnt that good of a place for fast paced shooters anymore.
May it be bcs of congestion or other stuff.
For instance , lots of providers have firewall rules set on specific ports to cope with things like the "getStatus" DDOS attack which was used on Q3-Engine Servers.
This can lead to massively dropped packets if your gametraffic matches the fingerprint , bcs the Firewall doesnt know, oh is this real game traffic or does somebody abuse a gameserver for a denial of service attack. The packets look literally the same to the firewall, hence you game suffers.

@r1ggedgameGood explanation but I've had the same experience with OW2 and the Finals. And in the recent server test for xdefiant it was even worse than Apex. Are these games sending things the same way?

I'm old enough to miss the days where we'd have to haul our xboxes, tiny tvs and network switches to peoples houses to have our own Halo Lans. That was always fun. 🙂