RP and AP Thought

4 years ago

@RockDokRock wrote:
@cooperal1012 wrote:
I do not agree. It is already known that squads will collude and abuse respawns for kill/AP farming. Adding additional sources of AP to the respawn mechanic will only reward that behaviour further.
Coming back from a bad situation should not have the potential to be more rewarding than preventing a bad situation. If there are any benefits to purposely letting your team bleed out, people will use it.
@cooperal1012 OK. So just to be clear. What you appear to be saying is "There should be no RP incentives for good team play because people will abuse it like they are now with Kills/AP farming". Is this correct?
In that case, get rid of all RP bonuses for kills/etc and make it purely where you finish in the match. That will solve the problem then right?
- DR

It sounds like you don't understand the criteria for victory. Teammates dying is a setback. If someone goes down you are one third closer to being ejected from the match. It is caused because the person who fell either failed their team, or was failed by their team. Respawning your team is a means toward undoing a setback that is preventing you from participating effectively. Under no circumstance is it better than preventing a setback outright.

Supposing you understand that achieving a higher placement means more RP, there is already a clear RP incentive to bring back any lost teammates. It is not the respawning itself that rewards, but what comes after.

The fact that squads do cooperate to farm kills is an unfortunate design, certainly not unique to Apex and entirely reportable/bannable. It is not a realistic solution to take away rewards for actively furthering the match to its conclusion.

Asmodeus566
Hero+
4 years ago
@cooperal1012
The criteria for victory is quite clear, last team or last player standing. Getting to that point for most players is team play and yes reviving and respawning teammates in and of itself is an incentive as they normally help that goal being achieved or close enough for a positive play experience and RP.
Some players are are spot on laser shooters, movement masters and killing machines in the game, and I applaud their skill. Other players do not have those skills but have great tactical sense, map knowledge and great general awareness and anchor the team as support. All of that in and of itself should be reward enough and I do not flat out disregard the points you have made and agree with them to a certain point.
However I still believe that some sort of RP should be given for revives/respawns. Yes their might be room for exploitation and that would have to be handled if and when it arises. Lastly I honestly think that providing a greater incentive to revive/respawn downed teammates would foster team play mechanics especially with Random Trio's and would not be bad in two or three stacked trio's.
I appreciate your argumentation and even though I do not fully agree with it find it quite interesting.
- Palette24carats
  Seasoned Ace
  4 years ago
  @Asmodeus566 agree, respawning has its risks as it attracts the players around to come and do a surprise attack on a team that has players with no shield and no guns. Many players avoid respawning you because of that and it makes the game very very much an individual game rather than a team playing game
  - Asmodeus566
    Hero+
    4 years ago
    @Palette24carats wrote: agree, respawning has its risks as it attracts the players around to come and do a surprise attack on a team that has players with no shield and no guns. Many players avoid respawning you because of that and it makes the game very very much an individual game rather than a team playing game.
    New to the forum not new to the game so I apologize for my unskilled posting. It will get better with time.
    I fully agree with your statement. However even with a greater incentive any player will have to make a snap decision on the risk benefit in a close situation. There are other situations where a player could save you but don't because they see no real benefit to them one way or the other. This might add some incentive and benefit to the individuals and the team they are on.
- BaldWraithSimp
  4 years ago
  @Asmodeus566 The incentive to revive/Respawn is you will have a full team and increases your chances of survival. Kills can be exploited by colluding with other team, but it isn't widespread. Revive is one of the easiest thing to exploit and will make the problem 10x worse imo.
  
  There is no quantifiable way to measure 'tactics' or 'game awareness'. The bottom line is you still have to convert them into kills somehow. No matter how many abilities you use, dmg wins the fight. Bloodhound scan assist was one of the dumbest thing to exist.
  - RockDokRock
    Seasoned Ace
    4 years ago
    @BaldWraithSimp Fair points. I'm not convinced that revive will make the problem 10x worse. You'll get people abuse the system no matter what you do. This is why we can't have nice things.
    - DR
RockDokRock
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
@cooperal1012 OK, I'm really confused now. You literally said earlier
"I do not agree. It is already known that squads will collude and abuse respawns for kill/AP farming. Adding additional sources of AP to the respawn mechanic will only reward that behaviour further.
Coming back from a bad situation should not have the potential to be more rewarding than preventing a bad situation. If there are any benefits to purposely letting your team bleed out, people will use it."
So how is my summary misunderstanding? Where did I imply that coming back from a bad situation has the potential to be more rewarding than preventing a bad situation (and if you do should you not get kudos from that? Overcoming adversity and all that?)
Your core complaint seems to be the 0.05% of people who abuse the mechanic, I addressed that which should have solved your problem yes? Is that not a viable solution? If not, why not?
I do understand that criteria for victory but thanks for the pro tip. It's literally to be the last group standing. Pretty straight forward.
- DR