4 years ago

SBMM In Ranked Open to Litigation

I often wonder if their version of SBMM is even legal. Especially because it is not really skill based, it is calculated to drive engagement which creates an addictive response. Anyone that has played enough understands that the game is manipulating their ability to win or lose based on recent performances. It is obviously unethical but could it be considered illegal? I think the fact that the same algorithm is working in ranked games takes this to another level. It creates an uneven and unfair experience where players that are worse at the game have an easier path to gain higher ranks than a player that is better at the game. If you don't believe this is the case I can assure you that it is. I recently switched to PC this season, my skill level quickly leveled up to the point where I am playing in lobbies littered with predators and 3 stacks of badged up players. At that point I decided to play ranked starting at bronze 4, most of the games I play even at that level have players with 4k 20 kill badges and though the experience is a bit easier than pubs it is still asinine to think there would be that many players with those badges hanging out in bronze lobbies, but the sbmm is pitting all the best players in those ranks against each other. I was watching my gf play in silver ranks last night and she could literally walk right up behind people and shoot them without them ever reacting and players just shooting out in the middle of nowhere while landing nothing. Players that have no comprehension on how to play the game at a high level. It is actually crazy to me to see that many bad players in the same game. So the SBMM is pitting all the poor players against each other even in ranked allowing them to achieve levels they should never be able to attain. In a ranked mode your rank is supposed to determine your skill level. Why is there a need to have an additional level of SBMM in a ranked with levels mode unless they just artificially want to drive engagement by allowing poorer players to achieve higher ranks. You say well everyone would smurf, but a great player smurfing will just level out of those lobbies very quickly and actually spend less time in the lower tiers then they will with this extra level of matchmaking. Again it is very unethical imo, but is it legal to market ranked as your skill level when one person's experience at a particular rank is vastly different than another players experience at that same rank.

discussion

26 Replies

Axs5626Sxa5001
4 years ago
@SHIZNICKMASTA

Matchmaking geared towards engagement= unethical.

But it is legal— for now.

This topic has been of particular interest to me for some time now. I’m a licensed family therapist and one of the things I treat specifically is video game addiction.

Respawn’s official stance is that EOMM is not being used— I know there are a lot of people who have run their own tests who are confident that EOMM is absolutely the current matchmaking structure.

I have no statistical evidence to prove Apex EOMM is real. However I am usually inclined to think that companies will use whatever strategy they can to maximize their profits (within the law).

It’s entirely possible this topic continues to evolve in the same manner that loot boxes did. As of right now, there are forces that are moving to enact legislation against loot boxes, as it promotes gambling tendencies. EOMM may one day be looked at similarly. Video Game addiction is a real thing; it’s pretty obvious that a MM structure geared around prolonging engagement can and will only exacerbate that issue for some.
DoYaSeeMe
4 years ago
@Axs5626Sxa5001 There is no EOMM in Apex, it's very difficult to apply such a thing when it comes to a game like this, with so many variables. But people will fabricate all sorts of theories even from thin air.

This is a very addictive game by nature, it's fast paced, has a very high skill ceiling, it's super competitive and also has a great amount of quality in it. Apex's Battle Royale formula is also naturally engaging, so there's really no need to overcomplicate things with formulas that would only cause server fragmentation.

I remember seeing some interview where former lead devs of Respawn said something like they don't want players to get stuck to just one game. It makes sense, devs don't like being stuck to just one project forever, they prefer to try new things and they also jump from studio to studio, often, so they prefer players trying all the games they worked on.
Kateh8sapex
4 years ago
@DoYaSeeMe
I am kindly asking, do you play Apex?
I play at least a handfull of matches every day. And I can tell you the matchmaking is completely unfair. There is zero skill based match making. I don't care what the devs say. EA has engagement based match making in both fifa and madden. So you expect me to believe it is not in Apex??
I get the skill ceiling is very high. But EVERYONE I play is super sweaty, in masters and predator. Also most have over 10k kills on one character. I have under 4k career kills. I have never been out of platinum. My career kd is about 1.0. The bad players I come across are the random thirds I get on my team. Everyone writes me off and tells me Im lying when I say this. So I ask, would you like me to provide a chart and graph to give proof? The matchmaking feels completely rigged to me. Either that, or the only people left playing the game are sweaty lords. I play on NA West servers. A short session during the day, and a slightly longer one at night.
How do you explain this? Dumb bad luck. No way. It's every single game.
gg123xyz
4 years ago
@Kateh8sapexand then what. how does a person who feels betrayed have a 1 kd when i dont and im as happy as a horse on the fly?
every hot drop every drop u get at least 1 down how is that possible?
hayhor
Hero
4 years ago
@Kateh8sapex What you do not realize is a 1 KD is actually above average. So yeah you get fed to really good players many times. If you cannot win ever that isnt the game tho, that is on you.
Axs5626Sxa5001
4 years ago
@DoYaSeeMe

Actually, I absolutely agree with you that a strict EOMM system would be super hard to implement in Apex.

That being said, I still feel inclined to be open minded— especially when many people cite EOMM in other EA games. I just think it’s an interesting conversation to keep having.

Arguments supporting the existence of EOMM:
-Too much money to be made. EA is all about maximizing profits.

-Respawn (in regard to SBMM) has gone on record to say “our system is structured around not wanting players winning or losing too much”.
-Matchmaking isn’t random. SOMETHING is clearly governing who we play against.

-Other EA titles utilizing EOMM.

Arguments against EOMM:
-Respawn can’t get audio right. Respawn can’t launch an update without breaking another game component; these are the same people using a super complex algorithm to maximize engagement?

-They have outright told us EOMM doesn’t exist.
SHIZNICKMASTA
4 years ago
Answer me this then, if there is no player engagement matchmaking being implemented then what is the point of the sbmm algorithm being present in ranked modes. With a whole point system already in place there should be no need for additional matchmaking. Players will play ranked until they top out at whatever level they can succeed at or however good their team unit is. The only reason there would be any additional matchmaking on top of a system that already determines rank level based on performance is ding ding ding, player engagement.
DoYaSeeMe
4 years ago
@Kateh8sapex I have around 2.3k hours in Apex + over a decade of game dev experience + over 2 decades of UI/UX experience. I've seen how people think and especially how easy they make up stuff and even got accused a few times of things that I did not do and never intended to or even thought about.

What you complain about is the harsh SBMM that is currently in place. I'm not denying that the game became much harder, but expected this to happen the moment they announced Arenas. If your k/d is 1, SBMM seems to work pretty well for you, you're actually in the right lobbies it seems. But you're also unhappy, which is not good at all for engagement, so you are an example of EOMM not being present. You would feel better with your k/d at 2-3, right? well, for that you would actually require some form of engagement optimization and SBMM turned off, so that you would get into lower skill lobbies and decimate entire squads. No need for any numbers, it's just simple logic.
MandatoryIDtag
4 years ago
@DoYaSeeMe wouldn't EOMM essentially create more diversity in difficulty on a match to match basis due to the fact its trying to balance out the whole w/l ratio to increase player engagement?
If my understanding of it is correct it doesn't feel like it's present in apex, for me anyway. As my matches are consistently difficult.
Cheese9Man
4 years ago
Can someone explain what's the difference between SBMM and EOMM?