Taking the fun and skill out the game

@StarMystro  Almost everyone...or so i thought. 😛

@Koochi-Q Haven't had much time to play but i'll be on tonight and let you know if you don't get there first.

After playing the last 2 nights the zip line thing isnt that big a deal to me. You can bounce 3 or 4 times, which is plenty.

The caustic rotating trap thing bothers me way more. It seems a bit harder to chuck them through windows.

This is a battle royal FPS oriented game. Abilities are big + for the unique of the game, but still shooting/aiming + movement skill should be at top, not ability spamming. This ain`t dota or League of Legends. If you want to spam, you can try this games.

Allowing people to have panic button to get out of the way, means you are rewarding low skill playerbase, who don`t have brain and rush like mad, aka Pathfinder 15 sec CD, and Wraith phase(at the beginning) 

People in this thread are talking about skills, yet they don`t know the difference between repositioning tool and escape mechanism tool, and the difference between them.

I`m sorry but when you going into a fight and you are straight up going to die, nothing except your aim/movement skill should help you in there. Not a "Q" panic button, get out of jail and come back for more.

Also the so call Path in and out 15 sec. grapple joke of CD.

Yeah it was fun for people who were abusing broken mechanics/ability, but not for the rest of the players.

Push "q" button right before you die, its not a skill, every low tier player can and was doing that. Same with Path 15 sec CD.

But the real skills of your ability shows when they rightfully nerf this broken abilities.

The game is perfectly fun, even without the abilities. No other FPS/BR game offer such a good and long TTK(which actually require most skill, compare to low TTK), such a good movement and so many different mechanics to dodge bullets and get out of trouble.

As far as zipline change, tho i don`t agree with it, i understand why they are doing it.

At the last ring, teams are fighting on the ground, yet some teams are just jumping back and forth on the zipline and laughing at them ...

This is a universal change, so it`s effect everyone.

You should understand that balance is made at the highest possible level, so people to not abuse a certain mechanics that require great amount of skill.

The game atm is the most balanced as ever was. And now almost all Legends are viable and useful at any level, unlike before when there was exactly 4 viable legends, and 3 of them was a must. :D

@Koochi-Q Was getting shot when using a zip and managed to jump a few times and grapple to the end so it's not that bad but hardly been on to test it and i only used the jumptower once last night to get out the zone but it's on my todo list. 

@LordloshBang  I haven't got a problem with nerfing the abilities. I was one of the very few Path mains that actually supported the nerf to some extent and I've had some considerable time on the character. My point isn't about balancing (which needs to be done) but taking away the fun factor. Being able to grapple into a fight to down 2 then grapple away to heal and finish off the third was fun if not a little OP but when i first started playing grapple was responsive, i hit q and it worked instantly whereas now it has a small delay. There is no need.

Wraiths tactical was used to push and weaken the enemy then bail out to heal while your team carried on the fight then come in and help finish. It was also used for repositioning both with and without her ult but was primarily used aggressively and that's what made her fun. Same with Lifelines fast heals. She might be better in competitive to support teams now,  but less aggressive and fun for everyone else.  Also, why can't certain abilities have a get out of jail free card especially for assault classes?

I have talked about Loba in a previous thread with reducing if not removing her teleport delay both before and after and the ability to teleport mid throw, would make her extremely fun to use. Would it be OP? Yes, but putting Path and Wraith back to S1 and bumping up other characters would make this game soooooooo much more enjoyable. Let bloodhound have a 360 scan and increase it to 5 secs +, give Crypto the ability to control his drone while still moving, like a ping wheel where you set it at 50, 100, 200 meters in any given direction, or make it follow you or patrol an area. Let bang and Gibby have their ults activate faster. You say playing this game without abilities is fun? I played the dummies event and while a nice change of pace for a short amount of time, if that was all Apex was about it would be boring as hell.

Edit: If a player invests in a character because they enjoy them and you totally change the way they play because of pickrate then that player will a) take the punishment and have less fun. b) be forced to change character and probably have less fun and also less likely to spend thinking they might change the meta around in the future or c) leave the game.

None of which is a positive for the game. Small tweaks are fine but fundamentally changing the way a legend is played (especially the most popular choices) is just going to * off a lot of your players more than anything else and at a time the player base is decreasing, is not the way to go around it imo.

The stuffs you describing was the main problem of the game, and why the pick rate was so heavily focused on few legends. And even if we forget the pick rate for a second.

Every single streamer was Path or Wraith, nothing else.

Every single tournament was 100% Wraith pick(its still is), and 100% Pathfinder pick(his pick is reduced and its kinda dependable on what your team style and strategy is, and its between him/Caustic/Giby). Now will can remove the Caustic after the nerf and put Revenant in there.

You are saying the game was fun ? But it was not fun for the players that were experience  this completely OP mechanics, aka from the other side your enemies.

People were complaining hard time, because it was completely broken.

Again this game is about skill at the higher end. You shouldn`t be allowed to go 1v3 recklessly and have an ability to allow you to get out of trouble. This is plain bad and stupid. Its fun for you, but its terrible frustrating for the enemies and will just make them rage quit.

You can go 1v3 and still have fun, but you need big AIM and movement abilities, not an OP escape mechanics.

As far as just buff the others and let me catch Wraith and Pathy for example, this was impossible and the main reason was no other legends have such strong tools and no matter how much you buff them, they never ever will get a good pick rate, and never ever will catch Wraith or Pathy, or even come close.

Its because of their tiny and crazy movement animation hitbox and because of their kit, and that future such a strong out of jail self card, and such strong team abilities.

No other legends have that, so you can`t balance them.

As far as Loba, again you will not reward skill with his bracelet making her insta. And this will be totally OP and will make people get mad.

Why shouldn`t i get a kill on her, if i beat her on aim/movement, yet you want to punish me, who beat her on a aim/movement duel, and you want to reward her on losing the duel. How is that fair and fun ? Its not.

When talking about fun you got to take the view of both sides.

I get we get a different point and view on the game.So let`s just agree to disagree.

For me the game was insanely unbalanced in the first seasons and there was like 2-3 viable legends to play, now the situation is a lot different.

@LordloshBang If this game didn't have abilities then i would agree with you but this isn't Battlefield or Tarkov and ability usage is a skill itself with how you cycle your abilities and their cd's that complements yours and your teams combat.

We should, imo, raise the bar of other legends instead of nerfing the most popular ones (that people have spent money on and leaves a sour taste on the majority as they are by far the most picked) and you say they can't buff certain legends to compete with Wraith and Path but Crypto who is one of, if not the lowest picked legend would likely be my main if i didn't have to be stationary while using his abilities.

If it's possible for him then i'm sure it would be for any of them with a rework.  If you suggest any legend i could tell you how to make them more viable as there are some i have ideas for and want to play more often but haven't as they just simply aren't as fun.

Hypothetically, think of a zero delay, reduced cd, skilled player using Loba against S2 meta Wraith, Path and Wattson. You run in and down their Wattson then start shooting their wraith, both take damage and she phases out while you teleport to the next building to pop a bat. You see the path on the roof looking for you and teleport above his head and PK him in the face coming down and as he tries to grapple off you finish him with an r99, now the wraith climbs up the side and you finish her too. All 3 would have strong abilities but how you use them would make a difference.

We can agree to disagree and the one thing i do agree with is legends are more equal now which is a good thing but the game overall is slower and less fun, which is not.  I'm not arguing with you as active discussions like this can only be good for the game and i respect your opinion even if i disagree with it but my way would make for a faster paced and more enjoyable experience, imo.