EA Staff (Retired)Hey all,
As we've now locked the Rose/Imp feedback thread I wanted to start a new thread to gather your feedback for the new Graveyard Variety Pack content update. Please use this thread to keep everything in one place.
Let us know your thoughts and suggestions once you've had a chance to get in and play after today's maintenance.
Thanks,
- Andy -
@phillybro2010 wrote:Rose is a support character, she is not suppose to be in the front line. I think she is fine. She should be as effective as the Sunflower in being a role player. So stop complaining because your favorite OP character is no longer OP.
I never even played Rose pre-patch. Support characters should still be able to defend themselves, especially characters like Engineer and Rose who are meant to stay near their teleporters and turrets. Rose simply can't defend herself
@phillybro2010 wrote:Rose is a support character, she is not suppose to be in the front line. I think she is fine. She should be as effective as the Sunflower in being a role player. So stop complaining because your favorite OP character is no longer OP.
Actually sunflower is not expected to run and build a teleporter and defend it.
I'm speaking as someone who didn't buy Garden Warfare 2 until after the update that re-balanced the game. I want it to be known I have no prejudices with the game before the patch because of this, and speak honestly about what I think of the game currently, on PC.
When I heard about the game, the class I was most looking forward to playing was Rose. I love the idea of magic, and of being a support class. In the original game, I played as the Sunflower and Scientist the most because I like the idea of helping my friends be awesome. And I like the idea of crowd control, of setting up targets for my allies. Rose is horrible at this.
In my opinion, Rose is way, way too slow. Her attacks are slow, her cool-downs are slow, she moves and jumps slow, and she's fragile as can be. I can hardly ever hit anything with her because she attacks and moves so slow, unless the enemy is holding still. It could be said Rose isn't meant to kill enemies and allow others to do it, but I find several problems with this. The first is, quite simply, the game doesn't reward you for assisting very much. No matter how much you assist, this is a game that reweds your killing, not your helping. The game discourages it. Sunflowers, even, are rare in the games I've played. No one wants to play something not meant to kill.
Secondly,this is not a game that encourages teamwork, I've found. And this boils down to there being no real chat system. The in-game one is atrocious, and does not allow you to hide your plans from the enemy. There is no team-chat that allows you to coordinate together and talk. In a game meant to be as casual at this, with a low skill floor, not many are going to coordinate together will. Again, why play a support class when you can be someone who can kill?
Thirdly no other class is as weak as Rose is one-on-one. All other classes can take on the other class through use of skill, save the Z-Mechs that can handle about two with some trouble, and three with some agony. But these fights can be fought and one, without assistance. Scientists, with their incredible close range power, can warp in on a single enemy and obliterate them. Pea shooters can hop around to dance around opponents and barrage them as a tricky target. Engineers have powerful direct-hit weapons, and their splash and stun is nothing to sneeze at. Chompers can dig and get out of the way, and goop, and even sunflowers have a fast weapon that deals decent damage. The biggest offender of this one-on-one power is Super Brains, whose tornado has so many effects he can take any plant on. Together, the plants can beat him, but on their own, no plant can take him on except at a distance.
Rose can't do anything from a distance, and hardly anything up close, either. Her slow doesn't last long, and her goatify is hardly useful is the enemy can run from her slow projectiles. She can't do anything by herself, and in a game that encourages the player to kill as much as possible, she's not viable. This really shows in building teleporters in Turf mode. No one bothers to play rose to build the plant teleporter, usually, because there's always a zombie waiting for her the moment the zombies see her, knowing she's easy prey. I can't tell my teammates to come with me as my voice comes in scratchy to them, and even if they could, there's no guarantee they'd listen. So the plant teleporter is hardly, if ever, built. Meanwhile, zombie teleporters are no problem. Even if there's a few plants, the engineer has powerful options to keep himself alive.
I'm not a game designer, but I feel Rose being so powerless is an obvious problem. I don't know how I'd fix it, as I do not have access to all the toolds and test data. Maybe her cooldowns could be lower. The homing ability of her spell shots removed completely and replaced with faster bullets, charge shots included. Something to make her faster, please.
Other things I find frustrating, balance-wise...
Super brains Spinning can nullify damage, slow enemies, and deal damage. It can do so much, on top of him having a melee and ranged attack. I know his ranged attack isn't overly spectacular, but he can do so, so much. One-on-one, no plant can really stand up to him. Chomper, who is also melee, does not have the same benefit. He can be stunned underground, attacked from range with little worry of retaliation, Scientists can warp away before eater, and all zombies deal extreme damage up close. Why does chomper have to be sneaky while Super Brains can more-or-less charge in to attack?
Citron feels underpowered. I understand that, gameplay wise, he's a sort of All-Star. His attack is similar, aside from the electro version, he has 200 health, and even has a shield. He had his mobility, of course, but this is really only useful for getting around the map. The time it takes to get in and out of his rolling form leaves him wide open. He can't even attack or pull up his weak shield for a second when he comes out. Aside from those issues, he's marketed as the rival of the z-mech. For a rival, he seems incredibly underwhelming. I would not mind as much if he was a little strong. His laser is certainly strong, that's not the issue. He has no defense, really. He's a huge target, with a massive crit zone, it feels. His shield breaks easy, and can be removed easily by any form of crowd control. Imps can easily defeat him without their mechs, it seems to me. I say this as someone who has lost several times to imps, and played as imps to kill Citron. The biggest problem is, like Rose, he's powerless up close.As a side not, it can be hard to aim his weapon while moving sometimes, especially while jumping, as his wide model gets in the way.
On PC, chomp goop is under-powered. I like the buff it got from the last game; fire rate for the gooped enemy is reduced. That's great, but as long as they can still turn and aim, it hardly matters. A mouse allows them to circumvent to slowness, so it becomes a who-kills-who first slap fest until either the chomper or the zombie dies. That's not very fun or skillful, and in fact makes playing chomper feel kind of pointless.
Imps are hard to hit. Period. Way too hard. The imps summoned from the ground are easier to hit. Even if the imp is holding still, it's still hard to hit. I've heard this is a bug, which it feels like.
I'm not against the idea of the z-mech. But it's super frustrating when the zombie team has 5 or 6 of them out at ones, powerful lasers, missles, and other attacks squahing the plants. It stinks for the zombies not playing as imps who are trying to get kills, and it's not fun for the out-powered plants. Teamwork would solve this, but again, the game doesn't encourage teamwork.
Zombies are super good at close-quarters fighting. Scientists are nasty, particularly marine biologists. I wouldn't mind so much, except that they can hit you hard at medium range as well. Deadbeard, at least, is at a disadvantage at medium range without his cannon, which I think is a neat idea. Scientists might be frail, health-wise, but their weapon is terrifying. This is in direct contrast with rose and the plants in general, who struggle at closer ranges, I find, save maybe the Pea Shooter. This was an issue in the last game as well, I think. As a plant, invading in Turf is hard, because closing the distance means dealing with the stronger close-range fighters. If you're a sunflower, it only takes three blasts from a scientist or four punches from a Super Brains to end your attempts to heal.
I want to close by saying I love the game. I lose the aesthetic, the style, the silliness, and the amount of content. I'd love it if I could enjoy all of it.
The team of the plants are weakened. The rose is useless. The Chomper needs more health or a quick digestion. The petrified cactus is the worst in its class. Anyway, the staff of the plant's a DISASTER. I have no desire to continue playing. You have to correct as soon as possible.
The team of zombies is with many advantages. They have two tanks classes with 200 health and plants only have a class with 200 health. And this is just one of the many advantages that the zombies have. I'm not the slightest desire to continue playing.
Zombies win more often because they are better players than plants because they now how to adapt to challenges (OP rose). I do feel that super brains should get a small health nerf to be around the same as a chomper. I see tons of corns now. I feel he should get a little less health and maybe more damage for popped corn. I feel the game is pretty balanced and will get better in the future.
If your having trouble with zombies try using a new class! Armor chomper destroys everything including mechs. Petrified cactus is not terrible! he is an awesome mid-short range character! I mean 40 damage for a body shot is insane!
